Newly Diagnosed Casey & mom Joanne

[Joanne Noble]

Hello everyone,

I was referred to this site by a member of the rescue group I rescued Casey from. We're in Canada.

Casey is 19y4m. Born April 1st, 2004. We adopted Casey and his brother Bo (R.I.P. my boy) in February of 2006. He's been healthy most of his life but a few months ago, I noticed that he was losing weight, drinking like a fish and urinating ALOT. Puddles in the litterbox.

He saw his vet today and his blood sugar was off the chart. Liver and kidney functions normal.

He started today on Caninsulin 2units twice daily. I have to split my vet bill up so his food and the rest of his insulin will be picked up Thursday. Vet never mentioned testing levels at home. I will discuss this with him Thursday. I trust my vet, he saved my other cat who is on prescription diet for urninary crystals and protein digestion issues. Casey has been on Feline C/D with Linus since 2017.

I've read on here that dry food is bad for Diabetic cats, so, I'm curious about what food he will give me. I plan on staying on the vet food until he stabilizes, then I will change to a cheaper wet food.

I look forward to learning from all of you.

Joanne

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Welcome and thank you for adopting them!

I know you said you trust your vet but he’s already done 2 things that are not ideal for diabetic cats. Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. Vets also get their information about nutrition from the big cat food manufacturers so they are biased in what they recommend. An expensive “prescription” food is not especial at all and most are too high cat for diabetic cats. A high carb diet is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of chips, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need:

• A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
• A suitable insulin such as Lantus (which is very affordable in Canada!) or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins. You vet prescribed caninsulin which is a harsh and short lasting insulin that is called that because it was created for canines whose metabolisms are a lot slower than cats. It doesn’t last a full 12 hours so your cat is not fully protected in between shots. Here in the US, it’s not longer recommended in the treatment of cats by the AAHA. You may want to share the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn with your vet
  
• We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
• HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more. I’m going to try to tag a few Canadian members here for you @Red & Rover (GA)

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more. I’m going to try to tag a few Canadian members here for you @Red & Rover (GA)

Welcome. Waving from Ontario.

There are very few dry food options in Canada that are low carb. The prescription "dietitic" dry food is not low carb. It is over 15% carbs. (There was a law suit in the US and the company had to stop using the word "diabetic" on the label.

The only dry foods available in Canada are Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Epigen Wysong 90. Young Again can now be shipped to Canada (free shipping over $65).

I'll post about testing and meters later this evening. In the meantime, here is some reading for you.

• (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats

 

[Joanne Noble]

Welcome and thank you for adopting them!

I know you said you trust your vet but he’s already done 2 things that are not ideal for diabetic cats. Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. Vets also get their information about nutrition from the big cat food manufacturers so they are biased in what they recommend. An expensive “prescription” food is not especial at all and most are too high cat for diabetic cats. A high carb diet is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of chips, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need:

• A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
• A suitable insulin such as Lantus (which is very affordable in Canada!) or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins. You vet prescribed caninsulin which is a harsh and short lasting insulin that is called that because it was created for canines whose metabolisms are a lot slower than cats. It doesn’t last a full 12 hours so your cat is not fully protected in between shots. Here in the US, it’s not longer recommended in the treatment of cats by the AAHA. You may want to share the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn with your vet
  
• We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
• HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more. I’m going to try to tag a few Canadian members here for you @Red & Rover (GA)

OH MY GOODNESS! I had no idea it would be this complicated. I will get to reading. Thank you you so much for the starter info. Human Diabetes is so much easier to manage. UGH! (Hubby is type 2 and controlled by diet and pills).

 

[Joanne Noble]

Welcome. Waving from Ontario.

There are very few dry food options in Canada that are low carb. The prescription "dietitic" dry food is not low carb. It is over 15% carbs. (There was a law suit in the US and the company had to stop using the word "diabetic" on the label.

The only dry foods available in Canada are Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Epigen Wysong 90. Young Again can now be shipped to Canada (free shipping over $65).

I'll post about testing and meters later this evening. In the meantime, here is some reading for you.

• (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats

Thank you for your response. I am also in Ontario. Windsor to be exact. I will ask him about his wet food on Thursday. He usually has both types in stock. I went to the grocery store today and their Fancy Feast was almost sold out. I got them the low protein pate that I usually buy them for a treat. It's going to be difficult to keep my 7 year old "horse" from eating Casey's food and vice versa.

What about treat? Linus can only have the Pet Green ones due to low protein requirements. I only give them 3 each every few days.

Casey has had 2 doses of 2 units each so far today.

When should I start seeing a change in his behaviour and drinking/eliminating behaviour?

Thanks again. I'm sure I will have more questions after all the reading is done.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

We have a saying that feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. And to make matters more complicated every cat is different. Vetsulin or caninsulin is not ideal so I’m not sure when you’ll see improvements. With Vetsulin, you need to make sure he’s eaten at least 30 minutes before the shot because it hits hard and fast. If you’re willing to home test, you’ll see improvements sooner because you’ll be able to make dose adjustments and monitor at home as opposed to having to wait for vet appointments or for them to get back to you. I’ll post a link to the Vetsulin forum below. I’d read all the yellow sticky notes which have a ton of useful info about how the insulin works and what to expect.

I used to order my Lantus from Canada because it was so much cheaper, 1/3 of the price of the US. I also liked using a human insulin because if I ran out I knew I could get it at any human pharmacy as opposed to having to get it from a vet’s office.

I honestly would strongly recommend that you do not change any of the foods to low carb until you’re home testing. Again, Vetsulin is a very unforgiving insulin and the dose could become too high when you take away any high carb foods, which could put him at risk of a hypo. Fancy feast pates are a great low carb food you can transition him to once you’re all set to home test. I hear even diabetic humans have a hard time at first handling diabetic cats. Main difference being that your cat can’t tell you when it’ bg is dropping too low so to keep him safe you really do have to home test daily.

Any freeze dried treat is low carb and a good option as well as those lickable sticks not sure what brand you have there but here they’re made by Inaba Churu and FF also has one now.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

I'm in the Kawarthas.

He started today on Caninsulin 2units twice daily.

The usual starting dose for any insulin is 1 unit. Is Casey on the large size?

If giving 2 units of Caninsulin, it is imperative to start testing. Caninsulin drops cats fast during the first half of the cycle.

DO NOT CHANGE FOODS UNTIL YOU ARE TESTING. Just switching to low carb can change overall numbers by 5 (90 in US numbers).

I bet your hubby has a meter in the house. It can be used to track Casey's levels. As you likely know, strips are expensive in Canada (a lot cheaper just across the border in Detroit) and strips for an AlphaTrak (a pet meter) are $2 a pop. Most people use a human meter. The two measure glucose in slightly different ways. If your vet says that you need to use a pet meter, tell them you can't afford the strips. Vets used people meters before animal meters were invented. Forum members are very familiar with both types of meters and can help you.

What about treat? Linus can only have the Pet Green ones due to low protein requirements. I only give them 3 each every few days.

All Greenies are high carb. Is the low protein requirement because of the crystals or the protein digestive issues?

If crystals, here's another read for you

https://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/

It was written by the vet who put together the food list that we use.

Food List - some of these foods are not available in Canada and Fancy Feast Classics are called Fancy Feast Pates in Canada​

• Cat Food - Nutritional Composition, data compiled by Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM (2017)

Some Canadian specific foods
CANADIAN Food Chart​

If protein digestive issues, is it IBD? I'm tagging @Wendy&Neko in BC.

He usually has both types in stock.

Wet DM is 6% carbs. Mosts cat go off it rather quickly and in all honesty, it is not the best - just the most expensive
Wet DM Savory Select is 10% carbs (right on the line between low and medium carbs).

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Joanne Noble
The Freestyle Lite is popular with a number of Canadians, it needs the smallest blood drop. It is made by Abbott, who originally made the AT, so some similarity.
Shop around for the best price. PC points can be used at Shoppers and PC pharmacies.

There is also the Bravo meter but it has some downsides. It needs a much larger drop of blood and you can only get strips online meaning that if you run out of strips during the middle of a low numbers event, you cannot run out to a pharmacy and buy more. Ifyou go with this meter, you need to have 200-300 strips on hand at all times.
https://diabetesexpress.ca/products/bravo-meter

If you wind up not liking the Caninsulin and switch to Lantus or one of the genetics which a lot of members
Try and get Lantus, I see you live in Canada from what I have read here you don't need a script for it in Canada ,just tell them it's for a cat , you can even get the generic ones. Check with your local pharmacy's.
I would get the 5 Cartridges ,they should last you about a year , they are good until the expiration dates ,keep them in the fridge ,middle shelf .
You would just insert the syringe into the rubber stopper and draw out the insulin


There are a couple generic versions, Basaglar, Semglee is another one. They are all considered Insulin Glargine just like Lantus is.
If you do get lantus or the generic you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings because we adjust the dose by 0.25 units which makes it easier to do
I found this posted by a member about U-100 syringes with half unit markings from Canada
Check out your local pharmacy for the BD Ultrafine II syringes (purple and yellow box). Those are U100 syringes. If you have a Costco near you, check them out. Or Safeway pharmacy

Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen! You will see a small gray rubber stopper, insert the syringe there

1. U-100 syringes with half unit markings so we can adjust by 0.25 units, even though they come in 1/2 units it makes it much easier when you have to adjust by 0.25 units ,we just eyeball it
   
   

1. Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen! You will see a small gray rubber stopper, insert the syringe there
   
   

 

[Wendy&Neko]

A week after Neko got her diabetes diagnosis, my other cat was diagnosed with idiopathic cystitis and the vet put him on C/D. Neko used to try to steal his food all the time. It was way too high in carb for her. I went to his vet and asked if there were alternatives that he could eat and keep him safe, but not high carb. She suggested raw food, so I switched them both to that. Turns out, after reading the catinfo page linked above, that it's really just low carb, low phosphorus (not low protein) that he needed, with plenty of water added. They both did much better on the same diet, and I didn't have to police the meals, as much.

If you can tell us more about the "protein digestive issues", we may have some ideas to help.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

@Joanne Noble
How is everything going, Joanne.