Help! BG of 12 yr old diabetic cat not going down at all.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sabby__j

Member Since 2023
Hi Everyone,


My 12 year old Ragdoll has been on insulin (Lantus) for the past two weeks since being diagnosed in July. She was first on 1u, then 1.5u and now 2u as her levels have not decreased at all in the past two weeks.


I go to the vet weekly to either spot check or do a glucose curve which they want to continue until her BG levels and drop a bit. She has had two glucose curves done already where her bg hardly fluctuated (stayed at 19). My vet is very concerned and suggested I try changing her food to either Royal Canin Diabetic wet food or the Hills Science w/d m/d. I am currently feeding her Tiki cat food which she absolutely loves. I have tried Royal Canin in the past when she was diagnosed as pre diabetic and a diet change was needed, but she will not touch that food at all now.


Will the food make difference? Or is her body insulin resistant because of some other underlying condition? I had full blood work done and everything was in order. I am deeply worried for her now as her bg levels don’t seem to lower at all. What could be going on? Has anyone gone through this with their cat? Please anyone give me some insight :(
 
Hi.
My cat has recently been diagnosed with diabetes too (17/7) and still doing tests with glucose curves to see what could be the correct dosage. My vet said me that insulin needs some time to start to work and stabilize the glucose levels, so don´t worry and purchase a glucometer to do tests and see how glucose is changing. For example, this morning was 143 without shoot insulin and yesterday night was 294...
Regards.
 
Hi, welcome to the FDMB.

This place is very numbers driven, which I love! The people here have decades of combined experience and knowledge on treating Feline Diabetes. They helped me and my cat so much.

Diet for a diabetic cat is super important. They should be on a low-carb diet that does not include any dry food at all. The tiki cat varieties are often very low carb what are you feeding specifically? How much are you feeding and how often?

In order for the expert gurus here to help you, they need to see some of your kitty's numbers. We use a google spreadsheet to track all the BG values, and home testing of the BG is highly recommended! I thought it would be impossible to test my cat but I learned how, so anyone can.

As far as the BGs not going down: 2 weeks on Lantus, for some cats, is not long enough to see much of an impact on the BGs. Other cats see a change in their numbers right away, but every cat is different. Insulin resistance is possible but is fairly rare.

Please look at this link and get your spreadsheet setup and put info in your signature, it is very important.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
 
Do not change the Tiki to the prescription foods, they are all high carbs and what you’re feeding now is perfect. You should not be changing the dose that fast. 2 weeks is not long enough to see any major changes and Lantus needs time to build up the depot as it’s a depot insulin. There’s no need to be concerned. You’ve just started this journey and as we like to say here, felines diabetes is a marathon not a sprint.

if you’re open to start home testing, I think you’ll feel a lot less scared and stressed as you’ll be able to follow her daily progress. Kyle already gave you this but here is a bit more info.

With a diabetic cat you need:
  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs, just make sure the Tiki variety you’re feeding is low carb, check it here: FOOD CHART
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins. You have her on Lantus which is a great insulin for cats!
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more!
 
Drashiel said:
Hi.
My cat has recently been diagnosed with diabetes too (17/7) and still doing tests with glucose curves to see what could be the correct dosage. My vet said me that insulin needs some time to start to work and stabilize the glucose levels, so don´t worry and purchase a glucometer to do tests and see how glucose is changing. For example, this morning was 143 without shoot insulin and yesterday night was 294...
Regards.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply. My vet is freaking out which is causing me to freak out :( I will most likely start home testing and hope some change is seen. All the best with your kitty!
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
Hi, welcome to the FDMB.

This place is very numbers driven, which I love! The people here have decades of combined experience and knowledge on treating Feline Diabetes. They helped me and my cat so much.

Diet for a diabetic cat is super important. They should be on a low-carb diet that does not include any dry food at all. The tiki cat varieties are often very low carb what are you feeding specifically? How much are you feeding and how often?

In order for the expert gurus here to help you, they need to see some of your kitty's numbers. We use a google spreadsheet to track all the BG values, and home testing of the BG is highly recommended! I thought it would be impossible to test my cat but I learned how, so anyone can.

As far as the BGs not going down: 2 weeks on Lantus, for some cats, is not long enough to see much of an impact on the BGs. Other cats see a change in their numbers right away, but every cat is different. Insulin resistance is possible but is fairly rare.

Please look at this link and get your spreadsheet setup and put info in your signature, it is very important.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
Click to expand...

Hi! Thank you for your reply!
I feed her the Tiki after dark variety as well as the ‘Luau’ flavours - salmon and chicken, chicken Luau etc. I still refer to the cat nutrition chart that was posted here on this forum even though it’s from 2017. I am currently composing an email to Tiki cat food to get an update on their protein, fat and chicken %.

I give her 1 can in the morning, 1 can at night and throughout the day ( between 12pm - 6pm) if she’s hungry (which she usually is) 1/3 of a can at a time. But no more than total three cans a day.

I showed my Vet a Tiki cat food can the other day when I was there - the chicken and quail egg after dark to be exact - she had a read of the percentages on the side which said 15% crude protein and mentioned to me that prescription food is at least 40% protein? And that’s better? My cat is miserable on the prescription food and I really don’t want to change her over.

I am going to start home testing. I think that’s the only way for me to know what’s going on with my kitty. Thank you for the link, I will get started on that.
 
I believe the after dark ones that are not pate may be higher carb, typical pates are not high carb. I thought they listed them on their website but I must be thinking of Weruva. The protein content only matters if your cat has CKD and even then, it’s still debatable
 
Last edited:
The other thing you can try is going on Chewy and looking them up. Under questions for each of them someone may already have asked about the carb content and Chewy may already have answered.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Do not change the Tiki to the prescription foods, they are all high carbs and what you’re feeding now is perfect. You should not be changing the dose that fast. 2 weeks is not long enough to see any major changes and Lantus needs time to build up the depot as it’s a depot insulin. There’s no need to be concerned. You’ve just started this journey and as we like to say here, felines diabetes is a marathon not a sprint.

if you’re open to start home testing, I think you’ll feel a lot less scared and stressed as you’ll be able to follow her daily progress. Kyle already gave you this but here is a bit more info.

With a diabetic cat you need:
  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs, just make sure the Tiki variety you’re feeding is low carb, check it here: FOOD CHART
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins. You have her on Lantus which is a great insulin for cats!
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply!
My Vet had a read of the Tiki cat food can I had on me (chicken and quail egg) which listed 15% crude protein and mentioned that RC diabetic wet food has about 40% protein and that that’s better? My cat hates the prescription food, she gets sad and will not eat all day if the prescription food is what I leave out for her. Since changing her over to tiki foods she’s is an overall healthier and happier cat. The change in her temperament was so massive I was shocked. She has been depressed the past couple of months (when she was on the RC diabetic wet food) and lethargic, not bothered with anyone and couple of weeks ago she refused to eat at all all day which was when I rushed to the vet. That day we found out she is officially diabetic and needs insulin right away. I found Tiki foods and changed her over and it feels like she has aged back a couple of years. She’s running around, shes playing and purring and snuggling with us and generally more active. Pretty sure she is very happy on This food.
Yes, that food chart is the exact one I refer to.

I also thought my Vet was increasing the dose too quickly, but she said she wanted to see at least a bit of a drop in my cats bg level which has not happened at all yet ( she has already have two glucose curves done at the vet).

My cat is actually a grazer. Even in the morning before her insulin, she will not finish the whole can, maybe two thirds she’ll finish and then stops. I give her the insulin then. Should I pick up the left over food and put it away? She will come back to her bowl even after the insulin shot to munch a bit again. Since it’s only been two weeks and we have increased her insulin dose once again (2u now) I want to leave some food out just in case her bg gets too low. But then again is not moving the food bowl causing the constant elevated levels? How would you advise feeding a grazer? I give her one can in the morning, one can in the night and during the day (12pm to 6pm) if she’s hungry, which is usually is one more can put I portion it and put out a third of the can at a time. I give a total of three cans a day.

I am thinking now I need to be more strict with the timing of the food and when to take away the bowl. I give her at least one hour to finish her breakfast/ dinner before I give her the insulin. She is a slow eater.

I want to start testing at home. I think this is the only way. Thank you for the link I will get started on that right away.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
I believe the after dark ones that are not pate may be higher carb, typical pates are not high carb. I thought they listed them on their website but I must be thinking of Weruva. The protein content only matters if your cat has CKD and even then, it’s still debatable
Click to expand...

Oh really :/ okay I will be on the lookout for the pate ones then and will check out that website.
 
Don't worry if your cat is a grazer, we have a few here like that. The only thing is that in the beginning, it's best to lift the bowl two hours before the shot. We strongly recommend testing before giving insulin (to make sure it's safe to give), and you want that test to not be inflated due to eating food recently. Leaving food out is a common way to help keep your kitty safer should their numbers go low, especially overnight or if you are away during the day.

And as others have said, don't feed the RC food. It's called dietetic, not diabetic. It's way too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. It's that carb count that matters.
 
When your vet says that the RC is much higher protein than the Tiki Cat--is she comparing them on the same calculation basis?
Since RC pushes vets to sell their food, they will have given their data on the best-possible calculation method, which is "if we take out all the water, which is usually about 80% of what is in the can, and only count the actual food stuff that's in there, how much is protein, how much is fat, how much etc etc."
When your vet reads the can of Tiki Cat, the numbers on the can are "as is" or "as fed" which includes all of the water that is in the mix. So, that dilutes the numbers for the actual food stuff down to what look like low numbers.
For example, if you have 100 grams of wet food, and it's 80% water, that means 80 grams are water.
That leaves 20 grams of actual food.
If that 20 grams is 40% protein, that means it has 8 grams of protein. (20 x 0.40)
If you go back to the original can, 8 grams of protein in 100 grams of food (now including water), that's only 8% protein.
Now look at a can that's 15% protein "as is", which means including the water.
!00 grams of wet food with 15% protein contains 15 grams of protein, dry. (100x0.15)
Take out the 80% water, you have 20 grams of food stuff. 15 grams of that are protein.
15 divided by 20 equals 75% protein. ((15/20)x100%)
But on the can, they report the ingredients AS IS, which means right as it sits in the can with all that water included.
So the numbers cannot be compared because the way they are calculated are different, and the results are very very different when you put them on an equal basis.
I guarantee you the RC is NOT 40% protein on a dry matter basis. That would leave only 60% water, maximum (and that's if there's nothing but protein in the can, no fats or anything else) and NO wet food has that little water in it.
Your vet may not realize the differences in ways to calculate the food's content. She will have been given info from RC telling how wonderful their food is, and they will have given the numbers calculated the way that look best for them, not the numbers you can use to compare can to can directly, without doing your own calculations.

If you go to Chewy.com, and look up the specific foods you are using, underneath the "description" section, is one for "Nutritional Value", and you can compare the numbers for various foods quite easily from their clear charts, rather than trying to read tiny labels that may be written in different terms. And you can look up almost any food available right there on the Chewy.com website, rather than having to go to a store and try to read all the tiny labels.
 
Sabby__j said:
Thank you for your reply. My vet is freaking out which is causing me to freak out :( I will most likely start home testing and hope some change is seen. All the best with your kitty!
Click to expand...
You're welcome.
Where do you do glucose curve? At home or vet? Mine is heavily stressed out of home, when he doesn't have diabetes he had about 300 os blood analisys on vet. Some cats have high glucose levels due stress.
 
Drashiel said:
You're welcome.
Where do you do glucose curve? At home or vet? Mine is heavily stressed out of home, when he doesn't have diabetes he had about 300 os blood analisys on vet. Some cats have high glucose levels due stress.
Click to expand...


At the vets office. But I’m going to do it at home now because she is way too stressed out at the vet.
 
Hi,
Try Fancy Feast pate, chicken or salmon. My buddy wouldn't eat the other low carbs, but loves this! After a short time he was diagnosed by vet in remission and is still months later! Doing terrific!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top