Hi everyone yes another Newbie needing advice (CKD & Diabetes) :-)

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eyeluvfurbabies

eyeluvfurbabies

Member Since 2023
Hello Everyone,

Diabetes Newbie here :)

A little bit about myself, I have been through many cats (I had 8 cats at one time litter mates / all around the same age/ few years apart) they became geriatric and went though various diseases (IBD LYMPHOMA,THYROID, INOPERABLE STOMACH CANCER, KIDNEY DISEASE, LIVER CANCER) I feel I have been through it all. I have no problem giving pills, syringes of liquid in their mouth, Sub Q fluids under the skin, various tips and tricks to get the sick to eat etc. I try my best with holistic supplements & traditional medicine. I listen to my vets then run home and do my own do diligence and extensive research. Tanya's CRF website was a savior through many of them and something I referenced often. I am down to my last 2 out of the 8. Sadly one has IBD and Lymphoma and My other one (picture on my avatar) was just diagnosed with a UTI, Diabetes, and again the dreaded Kidney Disease. Sigh....... Her name is Pretty. That picture was taken last August when she was 19 years old. She just turned 20 in May and was doing great (or so I thought) eating, mushing us, running around, then I noticed she started looking skinnier, drinking more and fur looking a little unkempt. (I also JUST lost my 15 year old dog to kidney cancer / disease a month ago :-( ugh) I said to my husband oh no I think she has kidney disease. We know after all these animals the signs. I made a appointment right away and yayyyy :-( I was right!! :-( but then, what???!!!! Diabetes too!! Nooooooooo!!!!
So I started reading this forum and have learned alot (THANK YOU EVERYONE) BUT now everything I know about eating / food with CKD (or lack there of because of Nausea, etc etc) that goes on with the dreaded kidney disease including eating low carb blah blah blah is different with Diabetes. I am now a bit overwhelmed and quite frankly crushed.

My Vet recommended VETSULIN 1 unit 2x's a day U 40 29 gauge needles 0.3 and a Alpha track. After reading this forum I realize VETSULIN is not the greatest choice. It is short acting. My concern is with this Kidney disease sometimes she is finicky now and I have to try different foods and tricks and pills to get her to eat and I know she DEFINITELY will be even more finicky as it progresses. (she is stage 3) Prior she would eat 2x's a day sometimes 3. I would think maybe a long acting one would be better?

I need some seasoned opinions / advice / point me in the right direction / and / or links to read on what to order and from where. I will call the vet and discuss further with some info you suggest. Her appointment was 4 days ago, time just keeps ticking and I am in full blown out panic mode with the delay of all my research I had to do because I don't feel confident in my vet's order list.

A side note, thankfully She does seem alot better with the Sub Q fluids everyday and a antibiotic for the UTI.

I will attempt upload her labs / urine report somehow. (Not sure how to do that yet since I am a newbie) There are 3 pages. I live in New York if that matters with ordering supplies.

I cannot thank you enough to everyone that answers and replies to this.
Like I said I am in full out panic mode :-( :-( :-( Hellp!!!!!!!
 
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Here are her lab reports if I dropped them in correctly
 

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Hi and welcome to the forum. 20 is a wonderful age.
You are correct in that vetsulin is not the best insulin for cats. If I were you I would either go back or ring the vet and ask if you can swap to Lantus or Prozinc insulin which are much better for cats and recommended by the American Animal Association.
If you get Lantus insulin you will need different insulin syringes to the U40 ones you have now. Yu use U40 syringes with Prozinc.

Are you giving anything for nausea? Ondansetron is very good for nausea on cats and can be given up to three times a day.
what foods are you feeding at the moment? Canned or dry?

How much subQ fluids are you giving daily?

I am going to tag @Marje and Gracie and
@Suzanne & Darcy to have a look at the lab results for you.
 
Hi and welcome to the group! 20, wow what a regal queen you've got there! This group is great they have so much knowledge and experience to share. You found the best place on the whole internet to get your girl the help she needs.
 
Hi there!! Thank you both so much for replying!! I did not order ANYTHING yet. I am buying online but before ordering I wanted to make sure I am doing things and ordering things correctly. Not only for her health but for the expense.
Oh yes I am very familiar with that pill for nausea. We call that pill the “ O” pill ( easier for me to pronounce lol) I just ran out today.Another thing I have to order and have them approve asap. Ugh. I really want to order stuff because time is ticking with her health and ordering online they have to approve it blah blah blah. Were you able to take a peek at her lab report? Doesn’t look so good :-(

Is there a difference between Lantus or Prozinc?

My girl ( and all my cats) for over the past 17 years has only ate can or raw mixed with powder supplements from ( know what you feed based in Florida) Like many I was uneducated about the horrors of dry food and her brother had to get a perineal urostomy from multiple crystal episodes . (He lived till 18.5 and died of Kidney disease) I have learned over and over many things of health from forums and trial and error unfortunately.
 
Also any opinion on the “Alpha Tracker”?
Is that a good option? Any other suggestions? I see a lot of you use human testers?
 
Lantus and prozinc are both long acting insulins.
Lantus is a depot insulin and prozinc is an in and out insulin.
I personally like Lantus. Here is information about the INSULIN DEPOT
If you decide on Lantus, post here becasue we can point you in the direction of buying cheaper Lantus or a biosimilar one.

Yes most of us use the human meter. It is a lot cheaper to run and our dosing methods are based on the human meter.
More people here understand the human meter BGs than the alphatrak meter BGs. They read slightly differently in that the alphatrak BGs are higher than the human ones.

I think many of us before we came across feline diabetes fed the dreaded dry food. So don’t beat yourself up about that.

I would push for more ondansetron because CRD cats have nausea and trying to eat when nauseated is very hard.

I can see the BUN and creatinine are high and the phosphorus is at 6. And the potassium is a bit low…I would ask about that
Did they send off the urine for culture or give you an antibiotic.?
I would rather someone more experienced than I am at reading lab results have a look for you.
 
Thank you for replying. I know absolutely nothing. I am trying to learn and quickly before she gets sicker. The last page of the labs was the urine results. She had glucose in her urine and it also pointed to a UTI. So she is on amoxicillin which also contributes to making her nauseous. Now she doesn’t want to eat at all. :-(

I will read about insulin depot thank you. Is there a difference between a depot and a in and out insulin?

I have never heard or read this far about a insulin depot or a in and out depot. Which is better for a CKD kitty that is having a issue eating?
 
Also can you tell me why you like Lantus vs Prozinc?

Please if anyone can point me in the right direction all I have to do is order it ( and what type of syringes) and get the ball rolling. I can read all the details while they approve and it gets sent. Hopefully that won’t be a long process. I really am in a panic.
Ahhhhhhh!!!! Lol
 
It is very important she eats food so offer her what ever she will eat at the moment.
I used Lantus and I suppose that is why I prefer it. I see good results with Lantus as well.
A lot more people use Lantus here than Prozinc so you will have more people to help you with Lantus as well.
Are you testing the urine for ketones.? I would if you have not started insulin and she is not eating well and has an infection.
To do that you need to buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart of a pharmacy and read the result on the side of the bottle exactly 15 seconds after dipping the test strip into the urine.
I’m going to ask @Diane Tyler's Mom to give you some tips on getting cheaper Lantus if you decide to go with that.
Prozinc and Lantus use different syringes so ask about them when you decide on an insulin.
 
eyeluvfurbabies said:
Which is better for a CKD kitty that is having an issue eating?
Click to expand...
Both are good.
If you have eating issues you need to address that with maybe an anti nausea medication
eyeluvfurbabies said:
. Is there a difference between a depot and a in and out insulin?
Click to expand...
When you read about the depot insulin you will see that it is different to an in and out insulin that does not leave a depot behind so each dose is independent of the other. Lantus gives lovely flat curves once a cat is regulated and I think it is easier to eventually give the insulin at lower blood glucose levels then it is with Prozinc.
 
If you do switch to Lantus
Lantus is the major brand name glargine the USA you can get generic/biosimilar glargine at very reasonable prices using GoodRx coupon. Most members use the generic because Lantus is to expensive.
https://www.goodrx.com/lantus?label...d-pens-of-100-units-ml&quantity=1&slug=lantus
Make sure that the Match your prescription pull down menue says generic glargine 1carton of 5 3ml pens.
There is no wait time test, feed, give insulin
Lantus usually doesn't kick in until 2 hours after the shot
Let us know if the vet writes the script for you because you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings , I can tell you which ones you can use
We buy the pens but use the syringes to draw out the insulin because if you use the pen you can only adjust by full units


Also
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just call around for the best price

A member just posted this
Allie was using the Lantus and I just switched to the generic and using the GoodRX I got 5 pens for $81.30 at Walgreens. GoodRX has a 1-800 number to assist you in using their services to get your pets prescriptions filled if the pharmacy gives you any issues.

I think I found it for you
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822
49823063143_3437e9e997_o.jpg


You can read all about Lantus here, all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
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Weruva pates for diabetic cats with CKD
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 134%

BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 4.90%
Phosphorus 132%

BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 163%

BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5.30%
Phosphorus 175%

Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF line.
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS
On the Weruva Site

You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts. This is where I was told where to look by a member


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click in one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva site
 
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If you live in NYC I don't think there are any Walmarts there but you can order these in line
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
You can order them on line also, stock up on test strips

Or any other human meter is just fine, just stock up on test strips

Also have your hypo kit set up
Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
 
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