? 7/11 Ivy AMPS 335, +5 304 Raw Diet Question?

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Staci & Ivy

Staci & Ivy

Member Since 2022
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-pmps-dose-advice-needed.279294/#post-3086243
Hi all, we went to see a new holistic vet yesterday who strongly advocated for feeding a RAW diet. Ivy has CKD, IBD also... (I currently home make her lamb sweet potato cooked diet, 12.5% carb)

We are still not regulated with glucose since 9/2022, Ivy has extreme highs and lows very often.
She's currently on 2.75 U Lantus, (since decrease 7/7/23, dropped under 90 bg, follow SLGS).

She wears a FreeStyle Libre 3 monitor (I consistently check her low numbers with Contour Next meter if she drops low on Libre). She does go down to "LO" setting on Libre, which is in the 40's Libre reading - usually under or around 90 on Contour Next meter).

Vet feels a higher protein Rabbit - basically no carbs (or Turkey or Duck but thought Rabbit best) to try. I have no experience with Raw diet and such a low carb load.
She has not done great on a 6% lamb & sweet potato recipe I had been feeding since last September until about 2 weeks ago, when reformulated to a medium carb lamb/sweet potato 12.5% recipe.

This new vet Suggested looking at Small Batch, Bravo, Answers or Primal Raw brands.
Anyone have experience with these brands and how to try them out to see if cat will accept the diet?

@tiffmaxee and @Wendy&Neko I see you have fed raw diets. Do you have any thoughts which may help guide me? Might this be a better diet for Ivy given her current unregulated glucose statue? (THANK YOU!)
 
I believe a lot of members like Wendy, Sienne and Bron and maybe Elise too make their own raw food. I have used Smallbatch and Steve’s Quest. They’re both good and the main difference is Smallbatch comes in discs and Quest comes in bite size morsels. Bobo had CKD and IBD and he ate them well at first then over the course of a few weeks decided he didn’t want raw food anymore. Minnie was fine with anything I fed her, Bobo would not eat Smallbatch well so I switched to Quest which he liked better. Different flavors too. SB has chicken, turkey, beet and rabbit I think while Quest has chicken, pork, oceanwhitefish and beef.

you must be in California right? SB is only available in Cali
 
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Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
I believe a lot of members like Wendy, Sienne and Bron and maybe Elise too make their own raw food. I have used Smallbatch and Steve’s Quest. They’re both good and the main difference is Smallbatch comes in discs and Quest comes in bite size morsels. Bobo had CKD and IBD and he ate them well at first then over the course of a few weeks decided he didn’t want raw food anymore. Minnie was fine with anything I fed her, Bobo would not eat Smallbatch well so I switched to Quest which he liked better. Different flavors too. SB has chicken, turkey, beet and rabbit I think while Quest has chicken, pork, oceanwhitefish and beef.

you must be in California right? SB is only available in Cali
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Hi there, thanks for letting me know. Yikes on Smallbatch. I am on East Coast, but it's available at a smaller retail store near me. I will look up Quest, since that wasn't mentioned to me, but she thought Rabbit would be good for Ivy.
I have no experience with Raw...so one more thing to investigate before I do another complete switch. (pulls out hair)
 
tiffmaxee said:
I feed my current two Small Batch and Primal. One of mine now is not well and I will likely start making her food using EZ Complete if she will eat it. At the moment she’s eating baby food.
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Thank you Elise. I hope your baby will eat better for you. Sending you prayers.
 
The biggest thing with commercially made raw is that you have to check to see if they are made with ground bones. Bones increases the phosphorus so not good for a CKD cat. When Neko got her CKD diagnosis, I switched her chicken and turkey options from commercially made to home made with a premix. ExComplete is low P, as is TCFeline, but their low P version is only available in Canada. Both those premixes are made with eggshell calcium. I also had a couple locally make options made with buffalo bone powder which were lower phosphorus.

Have you ever thought of using her current diet, but not cooking the lamb? Some cats do better with some carbs than no carbs. Feeding Lowest/Zero Carb vs Lower Carb Foods

Transition you just do slowly - except Neko dove into it right away. This website talks about transitioning, it is their product, but the principles are the same.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The biggest thing with commercially made raw is that you have to check to see if they are made with ground bones. Bones increases the phosphorus so not good for a CKD cat. When Neko got her CKD diagnosis, I switched her chicken and turkey options from commercially made to home made with a premix. ExComplete is low P, as is TCFeline, but their low P version is only available in Canada. Both those premixes are made with eggshell calcium. I also had a couple locally make options made with buffalo bone powder which were lower phosphorus.

Have you ever thought of using her current diet, but not cooking the lamb? Some cats do better with some carbs than no carbs. Feeding Lowest/Zero Carb vs Lower Carb Foods

Transition you just do slowly - except Neko dove into it right away. This website talks about transitioning, it is their product, but the principles are the same.
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Hi Wendy, the vet thinks the lamb is not great for her (she says it's "hot" vs "cold" referring to Eastern medicine principles) and as such thought maybe Rabbit (or Duck) would be better. (Or maybe even turkey, since they are a novel protein to her.)
Of course, my head is spinning now that it's suggested that we upend her food once again.

https://smallbatchpets.com/cat-rabbitbatch
The above link is to small batch rabbit sliders raw food (ingredients do say bones) phosphorous 0.5%
Does that sound no good??
 
Lots more on food energetics. Turkey is a warming food, but not hot like lamb. But warming are supposed to be good for digestive issues (IBD). The link includes some neutral foods that might also work. My IBD girl's main staples are rabbit and turkey, with some duck. My vet also does TCM medicine.

The Small batch numbers are for guaranteed analysis. You need either Dry Matter Basis or As Fed As. Maybe email them and ask if they have those. Rabbit is usually a higher phosphorus meat but could depend on the amount of bone put in.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Lots more on food energetics. Turkey is a warming food, but not hot like lamb. But warming are supposed to be good for digestive issues (IBD). The link includes some neutral foods that might also work. My IBD girl's main staples are rabbit and turkey, with some duck. My vet also does TCM medicine.

The Small batch numbers are for guaranteed analysis. You need either Dry Matter Basis or As Fed As. Maybe email them and ask if they have those. Rabbit is usually a higher phosphorus meat but could depend on the amount of bone put in.
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Interesting information, thanks for that link. Seems like with her ibd, maybe Turkey is a good option.
I emailed small batch to see what they say about the rabbit and turkey formulas.
I also still wonder about the best carb load for Ivy as you referred earlier to carbs.
I don’t think the 6 % diet she had been on May have been enough carbs for her to handle the insulin load.
The vet also said maybe Lantus isn’t the right insulin for her.
No one seems to be able to figure out why we can’t get her under some form of control and they all have different ideas :(
Yet nothing seems to stop her bouncing and diving.
 
I found Smallbatch customer service to be horrible. It took over 2 months to get a reply but hopefully they’re better now! Btw, beef was an IBD trigger for both my cats as well as pumpkin so I stayed away from all foods that contained either.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
I found Smallbatch customer service to be horrible. It took over 2 months to get a reply but hopefully they’re better now! Btw, beef was an IBD trigger for both my cats as well as pumpkin so I stayed away from all foods that contained either.
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How did you figure out what was a trigger for your cats? Did they do allergy testing?
Here’s hoping I hear back from smallbatch. They have a chat feature on their site, so I tried that. I’ll let you know.
 
You can also start with just feeding one protein for a few weeks and see if she's fine on that. Then add a second one and see how that does. It's not always easy to figure out what food they are allergic too if feeding a lot of proteins at once. Sometimes it's as simple as the gums in the food, so not even protein related.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can also start with just feeding one protein for a few weeks and see if she's fine on that. Then add a second one and see how that does. It's not always easy to figure out what food they are allergic too if feeding a lot of proteins at once. Sometimes it's as simple as the gums in the food, so not even protein related.
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I’ve been home cooking for her for around 5 years, so no gums or fillers (other than the carb we use, which a Present, a sweet potato).

She was diagnosed a few years ago with IBD after some bouts with diarrhea and vomiting (had an ultrasound to confirm).
She had been eating chicken and salmon recipes before IBD diagnosis.
So we then tried lamb, a novel protein). She seemed to do well on it, has been eating since late 2021.
Now, new doctor thinks lamb is too “hot” an energy.
I am happy to cook for her.
Maybe a Turkey (warming energy) recipe might be ok. (I think sourcing Rabbit would be difficult and very expensive.)

My concern with a Raw diet is that it’s virtually no carbs and Ivy “seems” to do a bit better with a bit higher load of carbs to help process the insulin. (But I’m just trying to read and educate myself).
I’m having a hard time trying to figure out if raw would be a good idea for her or not. Or, should I just get a recipe for turkey with some carbs and try that and see how we do.
 
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