Correct syringe needles for u100 Glargine insulin’s

[Bubbas and Katrina]

I have been using these 6mm 31G insulin pen tips for my cat, so using the insulin straight out of the insulin pen, but unfortunately the pen doesn't do 1/2 unit amounts. I was told by my vet to buy syringes so if I need I can give him 0.5 units if needed. The needle pen tips for 6mm 31G which seem to be doing fine, but I cannot find those exact ones on Amazon in syringe form! All I can find are the u100 8mm 31G syringes. Are those ok to use?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

If you’re in the US this is what I use and I buy them at Walmart

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

The 6 and 8mm are the length of the needle. 6 is the shorter which I like but I’ve had to use 8 before and it’s not that much longer. 31 is the gauge of the needle

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

Thank you everyone for the help! Had anyone ever use the Relion platinum blood glucose meter for your cat?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I use the ReliOn Prime which has been replaced by the ReliOn Premier.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

Oh ok, I ran out of my Alphatrak 2 test strips and like an idiot I didn’t realize I was going to run out today. I went and got the Relion Platinum and tested it with my last Alphatrak 2 test strip. They were over 100 points difference! The relion one tested at 366 and the Alphatrak was 457! I am freaking out. Bubbas blood sugar was 92 this morning before food , using Alphatrak 2 and when I tested it again a couple hours ago, it was 457!!!!

I don’t know which one to trust I ordered another pet specific glucose meter on Amazon, but it won’t come until Saturday. I like to test his blood before I give insulin, because as you can see, he goes from low to EXTREMELY high within a 12 hour period. He was in the mid to high 100’s the last couple days. I didn’t give him insulin after his food this morning because I didn’t have enough test strips to test him then, then test him again tonight. And 93 in my opinion is too low to give insulin. I am stressed and scared. I feel like I need to take the Relion back. I can’t trust it. But than again, I don’t feel as tho there is any really truly reliable glucose meter out there :/

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Alphatrak will produce higher numbers, and especially at high BGs. So that is totally normal that you got a 366 on the relion and a 457 on the AT2. It does not mean the Relion is inaccurate, the "pet meters" produce slightly higher numbers that's all. It is not a big deal and I highly recommend you stick with a human meter, but that is up to you of course.

Home testing is the most important part, not what meter you use, and I am very glad to see you doing so well at testing the BG. Great job, I must say I am impressed -- I could not get the hang of it for weeks!


I totally understand if you were not comfortable shooting a 92, but the focus should be on finding a dose where you don't have to skip like that as skipping can lead to higher numbers which also aren't good. Maybe you should go down to .5u?

I would like to hear from the true experts on that dose as I am just a layperson, however.

@Marje and Gracie
@Bandit's Mom
@Wendy&Neko

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Oh ok, I ran out of my Alphatrak 2 test strips and like an idiot I didn’t realize I was going to run out today. I went and got the Relion Platinum and tested it with my last Alphatrak 2 test strip. They were over 100 points difference! The relion one tested at 366 and the Alphatrak was 457! I am freaking out. Bubbas blood sugar was 92 this morning before food , using Alphatrak 2 and when I tested it again a couple hours ago, it was 457!!!!

I don’t know which one to trust I ordered another pet specific glucose meter on Amazon, but it won’t come until Saturday. I like to test his blood before I give insulin, because as you can see, he goes from low to EXTREMELY high within a 12 hour period. He was in the mid to high 100’s the last couple days. I didn’t give him insulin after his food this morning because I didn’t have enough test strips to test him then, then test him again tonight. And 93 in my opinion is too low to give insulin. I am stressed and scared. I feel like I need to take the Relion back. I can’t trust it. But than again, I don’t feel as tho there is any really truly reliable glucose meter out there :/

First, I cannot express to you how important it is to get a preshot (PS) test every single time. Please do not skip them. With as bouncy as he is right now, you could be shooting into a very low number and causing a hypo.

Kyle is correct. There is a lot of variation between the pet and human meters. If you look at my Gracie’s SS, I have a tab where I ran comparisons just so members can see how much they can vary. Many, many members here use ReliOn meters with no issues. I did as well.

Our advice is to pick a meter and stick with it and, over the long run, the human meters and strips are cheaper. In addition, all of our methods of regulation have been written for human meters.

If you can post here daily until you get your feet on the ground and feel a little more comfortable with the curves, then you can move to our Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars insulin support group where the advice is more germane to Lantus. But first, you need to learn the basics in Main Health.

Everyone slowly learns to shoot the BGs below 150 in a safe manner and what to do if the PS is too low to shoot (depending on the method of regulation, we have a cutoff on when you should skip a shot). Testing is also very important and you will need a PS test every cycle plus at least one mid cycle test in the morning and one before bed test at night. As you post here more, we can teach you other test times that can be helpful depending on which method of regulation you choose.

I’m sorry that doesn’t all relate to your initial question but Ale responded to that; it’s best to not use the pen needles. She gave great advice that you need 31g, 0.3ml, U100 syringes and then you can pick short or long. There are many out there and different members use different syringe types. American Diabetes Wholesale has several different types to choose from as well.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

Alphatrak will produce higher numbers, and especially at high BGs. So that is totally normal that you got a 366 on the relion and a 457 on the AT2. It does not mean the Relion is inaccurate, the "pet meters" produce slightly higher numbers that's all. It is not a big deal and I highly recommend you stick with a human meter, but that is up to you of course.

Home testing is the most important part, not what meter you use, and I am very glad to see you doing so well at testing the BG. Great job, I must say I am impressed -- I could not get the hang of it for weeks!


I totally understand if you were not comfortable shooting a 92, but the focus should be on finding a dose where you don't have to skip like that as skipping can lead to higher numbers which also aren't good. Maybe you should go down to .5u?

I would like to hear from the true experts on that dose as I am just a layperson, however.

@Marje and Gracie
@Bandit's Mom
@Wendy&Neko

Well thank you! I am really trying to stick to this as it’s effecting my mental health pretty bad worrying, I was just stressed because I read on here human meters are better, than my vet said animal ones are better. It’s quite frustrating that there isn’t just one good meter that is accurate every single time. My biggest fear is giving him insulin when his sugars are truly too low, but I don’t know which meter is even close to his true numbers. I am actually going to my vet to pick up some more Alphatrak 2 test strips, just to ease my mind and do comparisons with the other 3 (2 human ones, the Relion Platinum and the caresense N, and
1 other pet one which I got the PetTest one) meters and see which one I feel more comfortable with once I can’t purchase the Alphatrak 2 strips anymore. But yes I also ordered some syringes on Amazon so I can start possibly doing the 0.5 units rather than the 1 unit every 12 hours

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

But yes I also ordered some syringes on Amazon so I can start possibly doing the 0.5 units rather than the 1 unit every 12 hours

Yes, I'd still like to hear from one of the experts on that dose. @Marje and Gracie popped in the thread but did not weigh in on the dose. Maybe @tiffmaxee or @Suzanne & Darcy are around

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Well thank you! I am really trying to stick to this as it’s effecting my mental health pretty bad worrying, I was just stressed because I read on here human meters are better, than my vet said animal ones are better. It’s quite frustrating that there isn’t just one good meter that is accurate every single time. My biggest fear is giving him insulin when his sugars are truly too low, but I don’t know which meter is even close to his true numbers. I am actually going to my vet to pick up some more Alphatrak 2 test strips, just to ease my mind and do comparisons with the other 3 (2 human ones, the Relion Platinum and the caresense N, and
1 other pet one which I got the PetTest one) meters and see which one I feel more comfortable with once I can’t purchase the Alphatrak 2 strips anymore. But yes I also ordered some syringes on Amazon so I can start possibly doing the 0.5 units rather than the 1 unit every 12 hours

I would suggest you not do all those comparisons….especially do not compare human to pet meters. Honestly, you are contributing to your own anxiety. Most vets recommend pet meters because that’s what they use, although some have gotten on board the human meter train. But they aren’t testing as often as we do here which means their costs aren’t what yours will be. I had five glucometers, including an AT2, mainly for the purpose of offering advice to newer members here on different features. For Gracie, I used the ReliOn Micro (not made anymore) and it was a great meter.

Even between human meters, you really can’t compare. Each meter is allowed to have a 20% variance between its own readings. Pick one that does what you want and you like the feel of. For example. I liked how small the Micro was. The ReliOn meters remain popular here. But, please, just get a meter and don’t do any comparisons. There are so many other things for you to focus on than this.

If you do decide on a human meter, please send me a private message and I’ll change the formatting on his SS, which is important. To send me a PM, lick on “Marje and Gracie” to the left nd “start a conversation”.

Yes, I'd still like to hear from one of the experts on that dose. @Marje and Gracie popped in the thread but did not weigh in on the dose. Maybe @tiffmaxee or @Suzanne & Darcy are around

I didn’t comment on the dose because it looks fine right now but also because there isn’t enough data. From what I see, he hasn’t gone too low yet on 1u to even need a reduction under SLGS. We don’t increase the dose until we know how low the current dose is taking him so we need more data. That should be the focus more than the meter type.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

I would suggest you not do all those comparisons….especially do not compare human to pet meters. Honestly, you are contributing to your own anxiety. Most vets recommend pet meters because that’s what they use, although some have gotten on board the human meter train. But they aren’t testing as often as we do here which means their costs aren’t what yours will be. I had five glucometers, including an AT2, mainly for the purpose of offering advice to newer members here on different features. For Gracie, I used the ReliOn Micro (not made anymore) and it was a great meter.

Even between human meters, you really can’t compare. Each meter is allowed to have a 20% variance between its own readings. Pick one that does what you want and you like the feel of. For example. I liked how small the Micro was. The ReliOn meters remain popular here. But, please, just get a meter and don’t do any comparisons. There are so many other things for you to focus on than this.

If you do decide on a human meter, please send me a private message and I’ll change the formatting on his SS, which is important. To send me a PM, lick on “Marje and Gracie” to the left nd “start a conversation”.


I didn’t comment on the dose because it looks fine right now but also because there isn’t enough data. From what I see, he hasn’t gone too low yet on 1u to even need a reduction under SLGS. We don’t increase the dose until we know how low the current dose is taking him so we need more data. That should be the focus more than the meter type.

Yeah I understand I more than likely am contributing to my own anxiety, I have depression and anxiety, so mental health issues, and it’s hard to process certain stressful for sad things like that, so I try to work threw it best I can. I will forsure let you all know once I pick a certain meter. And I will also keep with the 1unit every 12 hours.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Yeah I understand I more than likely am contributing to my own anxiety, I have depression and anxiety, so mental health issues, and it’s hard to process certain stressful for sad things like that, so I try to work threw it best I can. I will forsure let you all know once I pick a certain meter. And I will also keep with the 1unit every 12 hours.

Let us know how we can help.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

Need advice please. I had skipped bubbas insulin yesterday morning because his blood sugar was 92 AND he didn’t eat, so I couldn’t even give him insulin. But ever since then, his blood sugar has gone up into the high 300’s and 400’s! He was doing good the couple of days before yesterday, staying in the mid to high 100’s. I’ve been giving him 1 unit every 12 hours (dropped from 2 units every 12 hours that I did for only a day in a half but it was too much), but I’m starting to think I need to go up to 1.5 units. It seems like skipping his insulin yesterday morning completely threw everything off. (I am still using Alphatrak 2).

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

Also, I tested his blood sugar before insulin tonight, it was 347. Tested an hour later, it went UP to 367 :/ and yesterday night I decided to test and see if his blood sugar was still too low, it went up to 471! so 92 yesterday morning to 471 at night. The highest its been since he’s been diagnosed 5/22. Also, I weigh him every day pretty much for the last couple of weeks. When blood sugar numbers were doing good, he was maintaining about 13.6-13.4 but he was 13.0 this morning :/ he’s losing weight again like when he wasn’t on insulin yet. Should I be leaving his food out for him at night? I do it during the day, so he free eats during the day, but at night I give him his food, than shot, and I let him eat more on and off for about an hour than I take it away for the rest of the night. Is that ok to do? Or should I keep his food available for him at all times? He doesn’t eat that much in general so it would nice for him to have food when he wants, he barely eats 160 calories a day , which is the calorie count for one can of his Purina D/M food. (I give him half a can in the am and the other half in the pm, he usually doesn’t finish the PM one, leaves like 1/3 left over)

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Need advice please. I had skipped bubbas insulin yesterday morning because his blood sugar was 92 AND he didn’t eat, so I couldn’t even give him insulin. But ever since then, his blood sugar has gone up into the high 300’s and 400’s! He was doing good the couple of days before yesterday, staying in the mid to high 100’s. I’ve been giving him 1 unit every 12 hours (dropped from 2 units every 12 hours that I did for only a day in a half but it was too much), but I’m starting to think I need to go up to 1.5 units. It seems like skipping his insulin yesterday morning completely threw everything off. (I am still using Alphatrak 2).

I will let some of the more expert members come in here and explain more but I just wanted to mention that the proven methods to help diabetic cats the most do not base dosing on how high the BG is. The dose amount is based on how LOW the dose is taking the cat. Many many people test a cat's blood and see a really high number and go 'oh crap, well I guess I better give him extra insulin right now' but that is not a good method and will lead to numbers all over the place.

In general, we see better results when a dose can be held for at least a few days. One of the reasons you are seeing his numbers all over the place is likely due to changing doses and skipping.


Up above, Marje recommended you stay with 1u, twice a day. That is probably really good advice and in particular, keep him at 1u for at least 4 days I would think right @Marje and Gracie?


It would really help you to pick a dosing method like SLGS and then the members here can advise you on how to follow it. It has rules for when to skip, increase, or decrease the dose and these rules are proven to help diabetic cats. If you want to help Bubba, I strongly recommend you start following a method like Start Low, Go Slow. (SLGS)

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

I will let some of the more expert members come in here and explain more but I just wanted to mention that the proven methods to help diabetic cats the most do not base dosing on how high the BG is. The dose amount is based on how LOW the dose is taking the cat. Many many people test a cat's blood and see a really high number and go 'oh crap, well I guess I better give him extra insulin right now' but that is not a good method and will lead to numbers all over the place.

In general, we see better results when a dose can be held for at least a few days. One of the reasons you are seeing his numbers all over the place is likely due to changing doses and skipping.


Up above, Marje recommended you stay with 1u, twice a day. That is probably really good advice and in particular, keep him at 1u for at least 4 days I would think right @Marje and Gracie?


It would really help you to pick a dosing method like SLGS and then the members here can advise you on how to follow it. It has rules for when to skip, increase, or decrease the dose and these rules are proven to help diabetic cats. If you want to help Bubba, I strongly recommend you start following a method like Start Low, Go Slow. (SLGS)

Thank you for the reply! I tested him again this morning and it was 440!! I gave him 2 units. I don’t have the insulin syringes that does half doses right now or I would have done 1.5 units. He’s also losing weight fast again. He was 13.2 a couple days ago and now he’s 12.8 this morning. But yeah, it seems as tho that I thought sticking to 1unit was doing good, but than I skipped his dose the morning of 7/4 and yeah since then it’s just screwed up :/ I will either stick to 1 unit or go up to 1.5 units based off advice I get today. I don’t have to give him insulin for another 7 hours so I’m hoping someone can tell me before then. I am going home on lunch I decided to just checked his blood sugar levels to make sure 2 units wasn’t too much, which is in 4 1/2 hours.

I would like to do any method you all think will help Bubbas. Is there any chance at all that someone could explain SLGS to me? I have read the post about it but I am still a little confused. I am willing to do any sort of strict testing schedule, I can do a glucose curve any Saturday or Sunday ( I plan to do my first one this Sunday) and can take any sort of direction or instructions. I am still so new and confused on what to do in certain situations as of right now. Its only been 1 week since he started insulin over all, so I understand that he wont go into remission this second, but I am willing to follow any instructions to get him at least stable with his weight and numbers

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I go cross-eyed trying to decipher the sticky posts that explain the dosing methods, I totally sympathize. I needed SO much help from people here to follow a method.

So I'm not the best one to try to explain SLGS haha. The only thing I can say about it compares it to what i followed which was Tight Regulation method.

SLGS is a method which allows for some dry food to be in the diet, allows for a little higher BG numbers, increases and decreases are at a bit slower pace -- it's not as aggressive an approach as Tight Regulation. Testing is a little less frequent in SLGS I guess? Following Tight Regulation I was instructed to check my cat's BG a minimum of four times a day, and ideally much more than that. With SLGS you are not required to test so much.

I hope this helps but also I hope someone else pops in here and offers a better description. Sorry!

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

I go cross-eyed trying to decipher the sticky posts that explain the dosing methods, I totally sympathize. I needed SO much help from people here to follow a method.

So I'm not the best one to try to explain SLGS haha. The only thing I can say about it compares it to what i followed which was Tight Regulation method.

SLGS is a method which allows for some dry food to be in the diet, allows for a little higher BG numbers, increases and decreases are at a bit slower pace -- it's not as aggressive an approach as Tight Regulation. Testing is a little less frequent in SLGS I guess? Following Tight Regulation I was instructed to check my cat's BG a minimum of four times a day, and ideally much more than that. With SLGS you are not required to test so much.

I hope this helps but also I hope someone else pops in here and offers a better description. Sorry!

Thank you! That does help me out a little bit understanding a little more about SLGS! I am mainly at this point hoping someone pops in and tells me if the 2 units today basied off his numbres was too much and what suggested units i should do tonight.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thank you for the reply! I tested him again this morning and it was 440!! I gave him 2 units. I don’t have the insulin syringes that does half doses right now or I would have done 1.5 units. He’s also losing weight fast again. He was 13.2 a couple days ago and now he’s 12.8 this morning. But yeah, it seems as tho that I thought sticking to 1unit was doing good, but than I skipped his dose the morning of 7/4 and yeah since then it’s just screwed up :/ I will either stick to 1 unit or go up to 1.5 units based off advice I get today. I don’t have to give him insulin for another 7 hours so I’m hoping someone can tell me before then. I am going home on lunch I decided to just checked his blood sugar levels to make sure 2 units wasn’t too much, which is in 4 1/2 hours.

I would like to do any method you all think will help Bubbas. Is there any chance at all that someone could explain SLGS to me? I have read the post about it but I am still a little confused. I am willing to do any sort of strict testing schedule, I can do a glucose curve any Saturday or Sunday ( I plan to do my first one this Sunday) and can take any sort of direction or instructions. I am still so new and confused on what to do in certain situations as of right now. Its only been 1 week since he started insulin over all, so I understand that he wont go into remission this second, but I am willing to follow any instructions to get him at least stable with his weight and numbers

We do not dose Lantus based on the PS. We dose it on the nadir (the lowest BG) primarily with some consideration to the PS. We also don’t increase a dose unless we know how low the current dose is taking him and we don’t know that because we don’t have enough data (tests). I suspect Bubba is bouncing from a low BG but without the data, it’s not certain.

My suggestion is to try the tight regulation protocol (TR) but you will need to test more both cycles if you wish to do this. Before you decide, please go the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum and read the Stickys at the top including the one on TR.

As Kyle explained, SLGS is less aggressive and has you holding doses longer than TR. It also has a higher reduction point (90 vs 50 human meter or 90 vs 68 pet meter). That means if he’s in higher BGs and you are doing SLGS, you are going to hold the dose where you might be able to increase it under TR every six cycles. Because we count cycles in TR, if you skip a shot, the cycle count starts over again. For example, if you were doing TR, you had 8 cycles at 1u and then you skipped a shot so the cycle count starts over. We also hold doses longer under TR if you are seeing BGs in the “blue range”. Either method, you need to go back to 1u bid for now.

I also encourage you to read the info post in the Lantus forum I linked above which deals with posting guidelines and then start posting there every day. You’ll get more eyes that deal specifically with depot insulins so there will be more people to help you. But, there are very specific posting rules so please read that and then post accordingly. And they are data driven there so you have to test more.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

We do not dose Lantus based on the PS. We dose it on the nadir (the lowest BG) primarily with some consideration to the PS. We also don’t increase a dose unless we know how low the current dose is taking him and we don’t know that because we don’t have enough data (tests). I suspect Bubba is bouncing from a low BG but without the data, it’s not certain.

My suggestion is to try the tight regulation protocol (TR) but you will need to test more both cycles if you wish to do this. Before you decide, please go the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum and read the Stickys at the top including the one on TR.

As Kyle explained, SLGS is less aggressive and has you holding doses longer than TR. It also has a higher reduction point (90 vs 50 human meter or 90 vs 68 pet meter). That means if he’s in higher BGs and you are doing SLGS, you are going to hold the dose where you might be able to increase it under TR every six cycles. Because we count cycles in TR, if you skip a shot, the cycle count starts over again. For example, if you were doing TR, you had 8 cycles at 1u and then you skipped a shot so the cycle count starts over. We also hold doses longer under TR if you are seeing BGs in the “blue range”. Either method, you need to go back to 1u bid for now.

I also encourage you to read the info post in the Lantus forum I linked above which deals with posting guidelines and then start posting there every day. You’ll get more eyes that deal specifically with depot insulins so there will be more people to help you. But, there are very specific posting rules so please read that and then post accordingly. And they are data driven there so you have to test more.

OK! thank you for the help. I will go back to 1 unit tonight after feeding, I will also decide on which method I would like to start tomorrow by doing some more reaching on the links and forum post. I was told SLGS and I was also now suggested TR. I cant test Bubbas all the time because I am at work and away from him 9 hours a day. I will go ahead and do the glucose curve this Saturday or Sunday and post the results. I will aos read the Lantus forum and create a new post so I can post daily on there any updates instread of making a random thread every time I have questions.

Thank you, you guys are ALL LIFE SAVERS!

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

We do not dose Lantus based on the PS. We dose it on the nadir (the lowest BG) primarily with some consideration to the PS. We also don’t increase a dose unless we know how low the current dose is taking him and we don’t know that because we don’t have enough data (tests). I suspect Bubba is bouncing from a low BG but without the data, it’s not certain.

My suggestion is to try the tight regulation protocol (TR) but you will need to test more both cycles if you wish to do this. Before you decide, please go the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum and read the Stickys at the top including the one on TR.

As Kyle explained, SLGS is less aggressive and has you holding doses longer than TR. It also has a higher reduction point (90 vs 50 human meter or 90 vs 68 pet meter). That means if he’s in higher BGs and you are doing SLGS, you are going to hold the dose where you might be able to increase it under TR every six cycles. Because we count cycles in TR, if you skip a shot, the cycle count starts over again. For example, if you were doing TR, you had 8 cycles at 1u and then you skipped a shot so the cycle count starts over. We also hold doses longer under TR if you are seeing BGs in the “blue range”. Either method, you need to go back to 1u bid for now.

I also encourage you to read the info post in the Lantus forum I linked above which deals with posting guidelines and then start posting there every day. You’ll get more eyes that deal specifically with depot insulins so there will be more people to help you. But, there are very specific posting rules so please read that and then post accordingly. And they are data driven there so you have to test more.

I'm sorry, I cannot find where you linked how to create a Lantus threat to post every day on that to get more eyes on it for daily help and how to creat it/guidelines. Could you link that again? thank you!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

I'm sorry, I cannot find where you linked how to create a Lantus threat to post every day on that to get more eyes on it for daily help and how to creat it/guidelines. Could you link that again? thank you!

I didn’t link it. It’s at the top of the Lantus forum but here it is.

You can still do TR with a full-time job but it’s up to you whether you feel more comfortable doing SLGS and that’s fine.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

I didn’t link it. It’s at the top of the Lantus forum but here it is.

You can still do TR with a full-time job but it’s up to you whether you feel more comfortable doing SLGS and that’s fine.

Oh great thank you, I will get this started asap and see which one I am more comfortable doing!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Oh great thank you, I will get this started asap and see which one I am more comfortable doing!

You’re welcome. Let us know your questions.