Newb with questions

[Neko’s Mama]

My cat, Neko, was diagnosed with diabetes 5 days ago. She gets her insulin shot twice a day, and I feed her 3 times a day. Prior to her diagnosis she was eating both wet and dry food, Tastyful Sensitive Stomach. Now I’m transitioning her to Fancy Feast pate, specifically ones with low carbs, and no dry food. I’ve read about other brands that are lower carbs but I cannot afford them.
Side note: I did not ween her off of dry food, I just stopped entirely. Is that safe?

The issue is that Neko is devouring her food and begging for more a couple hours later. She’s always loved food, but before I started her on insulin and her new diet, she would leave food behind. Now she licks the bowl clean and wants more. I know the best thing would be for me to test her BG, but I don’t have a BG tester yet. My vet never suggested I do at-home testing, or told me where to buy one or what to look for, and I’ve only realized I need one after researching about diabetes online.

That being said, does anyone have suggestions for what I should buy? I have no idea what I’m doing here. I’m afraid to feed Neko extra food incase her BG is high, but I’m also afraid not to incase she’s low. The vet is closed for the long weekend so I can’t call them until Monday.

Thank you!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi and welcome to the group. You just found the best place on the internet to get Neko help.

as far as it being safe to cut the kibble off cold turkey --- not really recommended but if you already did it and she is on wet food now, so be it. She is probably hungry because unregulated diabetic cats' bodies cannot make use of food properly. Their bodies can't break it down and put it to use building muscle or bone, so they are always hungry and losing weight no matter how much they eat.

You can feel free to feed her 3-4 times a day that's fine. in order for us to help you though, we need more information. What type of insulin? How much? How old is Neko and were there any other pre-diabetes issues?

As far as other types of food options go, look at these lists for low-carb options. Best to keep it under 10% and probably under 7% is even better for Neko.

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 

[Neko’s Mama]

Hi and welcome to the group. You just found the best place on the internet to get Neko help.

as far as it being safe to cut the kibble off cold turkey --- not really recommended but if you already did it and she is on wet food now, so be it. She is probably hungry because unregulated diabetic cats' bodies cannot make use of food properly. Their bodies can't break it down and put it to use building muscle or bone, so they are always hungry and losing weight no matter how much they eat.

You can feel free to feed her 3-4 times a day that's fine. in order for us to help you though, we need more information. What type of insulin? How much? How old is Neko and were there any other pre-diabetes issues?

As far as other types of food options go, look at these lists for low-carb options. Best to keep it under 10% and probably under 7% is even better for Neko.

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Thank you for the help!

She gets 2 units of Lantus U-100, twice a day. She’s 10 and she developed neuropathy in her hind legs which is why I took her to the vet. She had lost a bunch of weight about a year or so ago, first she had pancreatitis and then she lost more weight and the vet thought it was because she had painful gums and needed a dental, as she was struggling to eat. She dropped 4.4 lbs in 6 months. After her dental she was able to eat again but she’s a very picky eater and kept getting bored of her food. Eventually I switched her to a sensitive stomach food because she was throwing up often. She loved the food and ate plenty but still wasn’t gaining weight (she’s 9 lbs at the moment, I can feel her spine and ribs). And then she began to walk weird, which I now know is neuropathy. After her diagnosis this all made sense and I feel awful for not getting her help sooner. I knew nothing about diabetes before last weeks vet visit and unfortunately they never caught the signs either

If you happen to know, do I need a cat-specific glucose monitor? Or does a human one work?

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

If you happen to know, do I need a cat-specific glucose monitor? Or does a human one work?

my vet, along with every other vet, says you must use an Alphatrak cat-specific monitor! Thankfully, this is simply not so. Using a human one is fine, in fact the experts here base their guidance and assistance primarily on readings obtained from human monitors. I used one, called a Caresens N, with my boy Hendrick and following the Tight Regulation method and the advice of gurus here -- got him into diabetic remission. My vet unfortunately wasn't any help and in fact their advice almost killed my cat so thank goodness I found these folks.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

oh sorry forgot to say -- thank you for the info on Neko. Now the next step is to add that info to your signature line in your profile settings so people don't have to keep bugging you for it over and over. And please setup a spreadsheet for tracking Neko's numbers -- this site is super numbers driven, and the methodology works. Here, check out this link:

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

 

[Neko’s Mama]

my vet, along with every other vet, says you must use an Alphatrak cat-specific monitor! Thankfully, this is simply not so. Using a human one is fine, in fact the experts here base their guidance and assistance primarily on readings obtained from human monitors. I used one, called a Caresens N, with my boy Hendrick and following the Tight Regulation method and the advice of gurus here -- got him into diabetic remission. My vet unfortunately wasn't any help and in fact their advice almost killed my cat so thank goodness I found these folks.

Okay thank you! Where would I find what the numbers should be using a human monitor? (Sorry, I’m not used to forums)

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

first thing to do is get your spreadsheet setup. The numbers go in there and once there is enough data, the experts here can offer advice based on the numbers.

When using a human meter, an important number to remember is 50. 50 and lower is a risk of hypoglycemic event and action should be taken such as gravy lovers food, karo or honey.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Welcome!

FF is fine. That’s all both my cats would ever eat!

most of us use Walmart’s ReliOn in the US since it’s a reliable meter and the test strips are the most affordable. You’ll also need lancets to go with it and again, you can get it all from Walmart online or at a store. Are you using syringes that have 1/2 unit markings on them? We recommend all the dose adjustments be done in 1/4 units so it’s gradual. I feel like 2 units is a high starting dose especially now that you removed all dry food. I would recommend you start home testing as soon as you can to make sure the dose is not too high for her.

I would also suggest you add some low carb psnacks to her diet. Smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their pancreas and help avoid big sugar spikes. What’s her ideal weight if she’s 9 pounds now? A good rule of thumb for calorie intake is 20 times ideal weight so if she should be 12 pounds, she should be eating at least 240 calories a day but more like 300 now since she needs to gain.

Minnie also had severe neuropathy. It’s very common in unregulated diabetic cats but the good news is that it’s reversible once their diabetes gets regulated and we can help you with that!

If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help. We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

keep asking questions!

 

[Neko’s Mama]

Welcome!

FF is fine. That’s all both my cats would ever eat!

most of us use Walmart’s ReliOn in the US since it’s a reliable meter and the test strips are the most affordable. You’ll also need lancets to go with it and again, you can get it all from Walmart online or at a store. Are you using syringes that have 1/2 unit markings on them? We recommend all the dose adjustments be done in 1/4 units so it’s gradual. I feel like 2 units is a high starting dose especially now that you removed all dry food. I would recommend you start home testing as soon as you can to make sure the dose is not too high for her.

I would also suggest you add some low fat snacks to her diet. Smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their pancreas and help avoid big sugar spikes. What’s her ideal weight if she’s 9 pounds now? A good rule of thumb for calorie intake is 20 times ideal weight so if she should be 12 pounds, she should be eating at least 240 calories a day but more like 300 now since she needs to gain.

Minnie also had severe neuropathy. It’s very common in unregulated diabetic cats but the good news is that it’s reversible once their diabetes gets regulated and we can help you with that!

If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help. We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

keep asking questions!

I plan on buying a human meter tomorrow from Walmart so I can start keeping track. The syringes do have 1/2 unit markings.

She should probably be 11 pounds, or close to it. I did what you said and increased the amount of calories in her latest meal and so far she hasn't asked me for food! Do you have any suggestions for low fat snacks? How low in fat should they be?

As for the neuropathy, is there anything else I should be doing or giving her to help reverse it? My vet mentioned something about B-12 but didn't go into detail, as he was late for his next appointment. I plan to call after the weekend but with how little information they gave me when she was diagnosed, I'm not impressed and I'm worried they won't provide me with all the answers I'm looking for. They basically gave me the insulin, showed me how to do it, told me to put her on a low carb diet, and then rushed me out the door with a $300 hole in my wallet and no clue what I was doing or what my next steps were. This forum has been a life-saver today; it really calmed my anxiety and gave me some much needed answers. I just wanna make sure I'm doing everything that I can for the best outcome.

I've made a signature with the info I have at the moment, and I'll have to read up on how to do the spreadsheet because it looks mighty confusing lol!

Thank you so much for all the help!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

As for the neuropathy, is there anything else I should be doing or giving her to help reverse it? My vet mentioned something about B-12 but didn't go into detail, as he was late for his next appointment.

Methyl B12 like this from Chewy

They basically gave me the insulin, showed me how to do it, told me to put her on a low carb diet, and then rushed me out the door with a $300 hole in my wallet and no clue what I was doing or what my next steps were. This forum has been a life-saver today; it really calmed my anxiety and gave me some much needed answers. I just wanna make sure I'm doing everything that I can for the best outcome.

Are you me? That is eerily similar to my experience.

I kid -- almost everyone who comes here has that experience. It's kinda crazy. It really feels like veterinary medicine is lagging pretty far behind when it comes to FD.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!!

Many people arrive here with a knowledge deficit regarding their cat's diabetes and like Kyle noted, their vet is not always helpful at filling in the gaps. We tend to go in the other direction. There is an overwhelming amount of information in the posts labeled "sticky notes" as well as in other sections of the website (e.g., the Health Links page). If you want to read more about Lantus, the Lantus forum has several sticky notes that explain the insulin, dosing methods, etc.

We encourage new members to read this post on helping us to help you. It contains the instructions for setting up your signature and a spreadsheet. Please let us know if you need help with getting them set up.

Like Ale suggested, I would reduce Neko's dose. Your cat's numbers at the vet may have been inflated due to the dry food which is typically high in carbs. Now that you've eliminated the dry food and since you're not yet testing, to be safe, I'd suggest lowering the dose to 0.5u or 1.0u at most. Frankly, I'm leaning toward the 0.5u given your cat has lost weight. The weight loss is common in unregulated diabetic cats. So is the voracious appetite. For now, it's fine to feed Neko several meals per day. You just don't want to feed 2 hours prior to shot time since food may inflate the pre-shot blood glucose test numbers.

Please let us know if you have questions. We're here to help.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I agree with Sienne about lowering the dose to be safe.

That’s great that you have the 1/2 unit marked syringes. It will make it easier to measure the 1/4 unit increments. @Bandit's Mom can help you set up the spreadsheet if you need help.

Methyl b12 really helps with the neuropathy but you’ll only start to see improvements once she’s regulated. That’s what happened with Minnie. The first time she jumped on my bed again I cried like a baby.

I meant low carb treats not low fat, apologies. Any freeze dried treats are good like PureBites and Vital Essential. But also even regular chicken or baby food like Gerber’s ham, turkey, chicken, beef. I’ve been getting these that are a bit more cost efficient:

Your pet will love this Cat-Man-Doo Life Essentials Chicken Littles Freeze-Dried Cat & Dog Treats, 5-oz bag:
https://www.chewy.com/dp/152851?utm_source=app-share&utm_campaign=152851

 

[Neko’s Mama]

Welcome to FDMB!!

Many people arrive here with a knowledge deficit regarding their cat's diabetes and like Kyle noted, their vet is not always helpful at filling in the gaps. We tend to go in the other direction. There is an overwhelming amount of information in the posts labeled "sticky notes" as well as in other sections of the website (e.g., the Health Links page). If you want to read more about Lantus, the Lantus forum has several sticky notes that explain the insulin, dosing methods, etc.

We encourage new members to read this post on helping us to help you. It contains the instructions for setting up your signature and a spreadsheet. Please let us know if you need help with getting them set up.

Like Ale suggested, I would reduce Neko's dose. Your cat's numbers at the vet may have been inflated due to the dry food which is typically high in carbs. Now that you've eliminated the dry food and since you're not yet testing, to be safe, I'd suggest lowering the dose to 0.5u or 1.0u at most. Frankly, I'm leaning toward the 0.5u given your cat has lost weight. The weight loss is common in unregulated diabetic cats. So is the voracious appetite. For now, it's fine to feed Neko several meals per day. You just don't want to feed 2 hours prior to shot time since food may inflate the pre-shot blood glucose test numbers.

Please let us know if you have questions. We're here to help.

Thanks for the info!

What would be the best times to test her levels? She gets her shot with food at 6:30am and 6:30pm, and she’s fed between those at 12pm and 12am

 

[Neko’s Mama]

I agree with Sienne about lowering the dose to be safe.

That’s great that you have the 1/2 unit marked syringes. It will make it easier to measure the 1/4 unit increments. @Bandit's Mom can help you set up the spreadsheet if you need help.

Methyl b12 really helps with the neuropathy but you’ll only start to see improvements once she’s regulated. That’s what happened with Minnie. The first time she jumped on my bed again I cried like a baby.

I meant low carb treats not low fat, apologies. Any freeze dried treats are good like PureBites and Vital Essential. But also even regular chicken or baby food like Gerber’s ham, turkey, chicken, beef. I’ve been getting these that are a bit more cost efficient:

Your pet will love this Cat-Man-Doo Life Essentials Chicken Littles Freeze-Dried Cat & Dog Treats, 5-oz bag:
https://www.chewy.com/dp/152851?utm_source=app-share&utm_campaign=152851

Neko absolutely loved the PureBites, I started feeding her them a few weeks ago! Just sucks that half the bag is crumbs I’ll definitely have a look at the other ones.

I’ve got a glucose monitor now, I’m just not sure when I should be testing her or what I should be hoping for or expecting the numbers to be, and how it affects what her dose should be

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

It is recommended to always get an AMPS and PMPS -- morning pre-shot test and evening pre-shot test. And then at the very very least, one other test during each 12-hour insulin cycle. Usually 2-3 hours after insulin shot if possible, to see how it's acting.

 

[Neko’s Mama]

It is recommended to always get an AMPS and PMPS -- morning pre-shot test and evening pre-shot test. And then at the very very least, one other test during each 12-hour insulin cycle. Usually 2-3 hours after insulin shot if possible, to see how it's acting.

Perfect, thank you! I will start that tonight and see where her numbers are at

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I agree with Kyle. However, I'd suggest also trying to get a test in somewhere around the middle of the cycle.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Yeah like Sienne says the more the better really. Four tests/day is really bare minimum. Ideally, you test often enough and at various times of day so that over time you build a complete picture of how the insulin is working on your particular cat. And then every now and then a curve is recommended, where you test every 2 hours for an entire 12-hour cycle.

 

[Bubbas and Katrina]

my vet, along with every other vet, says you must use an Alphatrak cat-specific monitor! Thankfully, this is simply not so. Using a human one is fine, in fact the experts here base their guidance and assistance primarily on readings obtained from human monitors. I used one, called a Caresens N, with my boy Hendrick and following the Tight Regulation method and the advice of gurus here -- got him into diabetic remission. My vet unfortunately wasn't any help and in fact their advice almost killed my cat so thank goodness I found these folks.

@Neko’s Mama welcome! I just wanted to chime in real quick because your post caught my eye, my cat recently got diagnosed also, and I learned real real quick the vet is/was NO HELP. If I took the advice of my vet (3 units of insulin every 12 hours and to not test his blood sugar before very injection, my cat would have been dead after the first couple of days) this forum is amazing just like @Hendrick Cuddleclaw is saying. You are in the right spot! Almost everything I found out/learned about cat diabetes (I have been doing research for weeks) I’ve learned from the nice folks on here!