New Member

[Cholulo]

Hi fellow feline friends!

I am struggling to help my sweet boy He is a Siamese mix, 9lbs, 9 years old.

He was diagnosed with diabetes about 1-1 1/2 months ago. His BG was 500 when the vet checked it. I was told to give him 1 ml- 2xs a day right after feeding.

I was not instructed to change his food as it was not necessary? He eats blue Buffalo tasty toppers, fancy feast and Purina one Dry. He seemed to be doing a little better 2 weeks ago when I had him retested( BG now 400).

He is Starving!! I could feed him 24-7. Wakes me up in the middle of the night bellowing, I can barely get his food into the bowl without him shoving his head in. He inhaled it and instantly sits by the food cabinet yelling for more!

When I went back two weeks ago my vet jumped the insulin from 1ml - 2xs day, increasing it to 3ml- 2xs a day!

I am at a loss right now. He gives me no problem for the insulin shots but I feel no matter how much I am trying to help him, I am doing something wrong!

My husband (loves him too and does not harm or hit him), gets irritated because of the constant crying and bellowing. My cat jumps on the counter and try’s shoving off the class lid of the pan that was covering dinner tonight. That was right after I fed him.

Please help me!!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

What insulin are you using? Going up from 1 to 3 units is a huge increase and I disagree with your vet there. We recommend gradual dose adjustments 1/4 unit at a time. Increasing by 2 units is way too much too fast.

Unregulated cats eat but are still hungry and will lose weight because they can’t process the nutrients in food due to the lack of insulin. Once he gets regulated, his apetite will normalize again. How often and how much are you feeding him?

Dry high carb foods are not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of chips, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need:

• A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
• A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
• We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often at the vet will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day. Cats are also more stressed at the vet and those numbers will be elevated because of it.
• HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to the forum
I agree...jumping from 1 to 3 units is a bad idea.
Many diabetic cats are starving when diagnosed as they can't absorb all the nutrients on the food. This will improve when the blood glucose gets more under control. Is he under weight?
The best thing you can do for your kitty is to start hometesting so you can see how the dose is working. Going to the vet every so often does not really help with working out what is going on.
If you live in the US a good glucose meter is the ReliOn premier from walmart. It is not expensive. you also need a box of 100 test strips, a box of 100 lancets, get size 26 or 28 and some cotton rounds to hold behind the ear when testing. Oh...and some chocolates for the humans!
Once you are hometesting, you will be able to see how low the dose is taking your boy. And you will be in control...no more guessing. We can hep you with all of that.
Are you feeding before all the doses and giving snacks during the cycles?. Adding some warm water ..a teaspoon or 2 to all the food will help full him up a bit.
As Ale said...dont change the food until you are hometesting as a change to low carb food can drop the BGs to more than 100 points, and the insulin dose will need adjusting.
I remember my Sheba was always starving early on.
Here is a link to HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINK
The most important things you can do are

• Have a good insulin for cats
• hometest the BGs so you are in control
• Feed a low carb diet
• set up a spreadsheet and enter data
• follow one of our dosing methods

We can definitely help you get your kitty sorted. We just need more information which Ale has asked you for.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi and welcome to the group. Your story is one that is seen time and time again here -- people struggling with an un-regulated diabetic feline who is always hungry, constantly demanding food, or even breaking into cupboards and cabinets to get into kibble or human food.

This group can work miracles for your kitty if you are committed to getting the diabetes under control. They've seen your situation hundreds of times over dozens of years and believe it or not, the people here often are far more knowledgeable about feline diabetes than many vets. It is common for a vet to be more familiar with treating diabetes in dogs than cats, or a vet may have little more than a few hours of classroom learning on feline diabetes to go on -- whereas this group has years of experience.

Finding this site may have saved your cat's life and your husband's sanity. Let's see some pics of the howler! I'm a sucker for Siamese and Siamese mixes myself.

 

[Cholulo]

Hi everyone!
I can’t thank you all enough for taking the time to provide such detailed information to me. I feel overwhelmed and frustrated that I just look at my baby and tell him that I am trying to make him better!

I read through a lot of messages in here before posting and I will be getting a Relion meter tomorrow. I am going to look at the spreadsheet and try not to be too overwhelmed. I am scared though.

The insulin from the Vet is: Vetsulin
I feed Lulo 2 times daily and one mid day snack. 5am( he is sitting on my head at 4:50 am daily. I feed him 1 small can of Fancy Feast Medley’s primavera mixed with 1 pouch of blue Buffalo Tasty toppers. ( 3ml of insulin), 12 noon another pouch and 5 pm another can and pouch (with 3ml)
He also gets a tiny handful of Purina One dry at night or we will not get any sleep.

I know this is a lot of food, but I am not sure what to do up to finding this group. I am an emotional person so I cry a lot about this as I feel even going to the vet and trying to do my best, it’s falling short!

I am googling low carb wet cat foods and will shop for those tomorrow. I am confused on the BG levels. What number should he be at? Also, do I test before or after feeding?

I apologize if all of this is on the spreadsheet, I did not look at that yet?

 

[Cholulo]

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

We’ve all been where you’re now and overwhelmed doesn’t begin to cover it! The good news is you’ll learn and it will all become second nature and part of the routine like feeding them.

Most of the foods you’re feeding now are not low carb. I believe toppers are also carby but I’m not 100% sure. Look for fancy feast classic or pate. Most pates are low carb. The gravy makes the primavera medium carb. It’s important to feed more now. I’d add some low carb snacks to his diet. It can be freeze dried treats or even regular chicken or baby food - protein only no seasonings like Gerber ham or turkey. Smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their pancreas and also help avoid big sugar spike. Try to feed the larger meals around shot time and smaller meals or treats a few more times. 3 times a day is not enough at the moment. I’d try for 2 meals and at least 3 more snacks. Can you leave him something to eat overnight? Unregulated diabetic cats eat but can’t process the nutrients in food well so they’re still hungry and will often continue to lose weight.

you want to test before each shot, but don’t need to test before each feeding. For the preshot tests, you need to make sure he hasn’t had any food at least 2 hours prior so the number you get is not influenced by food. For the other tests after that it doesn’t matter. Ideally, you want to be testing 4 times a day. Def one more time in the pm before going to bed. With Vetsulin you test, feed, wait at least 30 minutes then shoot. Its important to have food onboard because Vetsulin hits hard and fast. It’s also called caninsulin because it was made for canines who have a much slower metabolism than cats so it’s not the best insulin for them. It’s harsh and fast acting and it doesn’t last a full 12 hours so your cat is not protected the entire time.

3 units is a high dose and I wouldn’t transition him to a low carb diet until you’re up and running with home testing because his bg could drop significantly and the dose can become too high for him. I’m the beginning, we recommend you only give the full dose if you get a value that’s above 200. If you get anything lower, you’ll want to stall without feeding for 20 minutes and retest, also post here and ask for advice. Anything below 50 at any point in time is considered a take action number and you’ll need to intervene with high carb food or honey or both to bring him back up. Anytime you’re unsure, post here and ask for help.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I will ask @Bandit's Mom to help you with the spreadsheet. She will contact you.
3 units is a LOT of insulin for a newly diagnosed cat.
How did the vet increase the dose? Was it is 1 unit increments?

However I would not change the food (except to give him more, as Ale suggested) or the dose of insulin until you have the spreadsheet set up and we can see what is happening.
I would also ask the vet about swapping to a more suitable insulin for cats such as Lantus.
Keep posting every day so we can help you. We will help you get it all sorted out.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Hello and welcome to FDMB!
I can help set up your spreadsheet and signature. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.

 

[Cholulo]

Tearing up reading this! I feel hopeful and relieved that my baby will start feeling better soon as we figure out new normal out.

THANK YOU ALL!!!!

The first time I took him in to vet, Lulo’s BG was 500. The Vet showed me how to administer shots. 1ml - 2 X a day.

We came back 2 weeks later and retested- 400. Increased the dose to 3ml- 2x a day

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

That was a big jump and not at all advisable so let’s see what happens when you start testing. You can do this and we can help!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Tearing up reading this! I feel hopeful and relieved that my baby will start feeling better soon as we figure out new normal out.

THANK YOU ALL!!!!

The first time I took him in to vet, Lulo’s BG was 500. The Vet showed me how to administer shots. 1ml - 2 X a day.

We came back 2 weeks later and retested- 400. Increased the dose to 3ml- 2x a day

If the vet increased the dose to 3 units from 1 unit, I would go back to 1.5 units now, until we see the spreadsheet.
I would also buy a bottle of ketostix from a pharmacy or walmart and test his urine for ketones. This is just a precaution as we are reducing the dose back to 1.5 U and also with unregulated diabetic cats, it is always a good idea to check ketones in the urine. There should be none. Let us know any results please

Once you have the spreadsheet set up and have some data in there we can see what the blood glucose (BG ) is doing. It is very possible he is dropping low (this can cause extreme hunger) and then bouncing up high. If the vet tested him when he was bouncing he would have found a high BG and thought the insulin needed to be increased when it may well not have needed to be increased, but maybe decreased...Does that make sense?.
So if he is acting extremely hungry, feed him as he may have dropped low.
Testing the BGs will tell us a lot.
Explanation on bouncing

• Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Yours is a very common story we get here, so please do feel hopeful that we can help you get sorted out.
Keep posting and asking questions and get those all important BG tests started.
And feed your beautiful boy more!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

View attachment 67115

I'm smitten by your kitten. He's got that classic look that to me says "I get what I want one way or the other!" hahahaha


I wanted to mention that the insulin you are giving Lulo is not the best. If you are really determined to help him I would highly recommend you see if your vet will switch him to Lantus/glargine or ProZinc. Both of these insulins are much longer-lasting and not as harsh as Vetsulin, which is also known as Canisulin because it is intended for canines.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Welcome ,you have found the best place you ever want to be .
I agree if you can switch to Lantus that would be great
It's expensive in the US but most members use the generic which is fine
If you do I can post where you can find the generic much cheaper just ask
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter ,but as Bron suggested to get a human meter you won't have to code it like you have to do with a pet meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Wondering do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markinds? They make it easier to adjust the doses by 0.25 units

 

[Cholulo]

Welcome ,you have found the best place you ever want to be .
I agree if you can switch to Lantus that would be great
It's expensive in the US but most members use the generic which is fine
If you do I can post where you can find the generic much cheaper just ask
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter ,but as Bron suggested to get a human meter you won't have to code it like you have to do with a pet meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Wondering do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markinds? They make it easier to adjust the doses by 0.25 units

 

[Cholulo]

I'm smitten by your kitten. He's got that classic look that to me says "I get what I want one way or the other!" hahahaha


I wanted to mention that the insulin you are giving Lulo is not the best. If you are really determined to help him I would highly recommend you see if your vet will switch him to Lantus/glargine or ProZinc. Both of these insulins are much longer-lasting and not as harsh as Vetsulin, which is also known as Canisulin because it is intended for canines.

Hi there. I am looking into the suggested insulin. I do have the U-40 Syringes.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi there. I am looking into the suggested insulin. I do have the U-40 Syringes.

Are the syringes with the half unit markings?
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
I see Bhooma sent you a message in your inbox up top, saying she will help you set up your spreadsheet
For your signature you can just tap on your name up too then tap on the word signature and add the information that asks you for in the blue link then tap save
A favor just so we know that you read the replies from other members can you tap the word like that is to the right from members have replied

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi there. I am looking into the suggested insulin. I do have the U-40 Syringes.

Do you live in the US if so
I prefer glargine and Lantus is the major brand name glargine the USA you can get generic/biosimilar glargine at very reasonable prices using GoodRx coupon.
https://www.goodrx.com/lantus?label...d-pens-of-100-units-ml&quantity=1&slug=lantus
Make sure that the Match your prescription pull down menue says generic glargine 1carton of 5 3ml pens.
There is no wait time test, feed, give insulin
Lantus usually doesn't kick in until 2 hours after the shot
Let us know if the vet writes the script for you because you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings , I can tell you which ones you can use
We buy the pens but use the syringes to draw out the insulin because if you use the pen you can only adjust by full units


Also
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just call around for the best price

A member just posted this
Allie was using the Lantus and I just switched to the generic and using the GoodRX I got 5 pens for $81.30 at Walgreens. GoodRX has a 1-800 number to assist you in using their services to get your pets prescriptions filled if the pharmacy gives you any issues.

I think I found it for you
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.