June 21st 2023 New Member

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Kathryn Elizabeth

Kathryn Elizabeth

Member Since 2023
Hi All,

I have just joined and have a bit of an odd situation. I have done a bunch of reading and learning, however I have not created a spreadsheet because currently not using insulin or doing home testing. Mainly seeking a bit of support around food and care pre-insulin.

The BG reading obtained four days ago was 490. I am currently looking after my friends' cat while they are overseas until early September). I had a feeling about him needing a check up, and got their consent to take him in. Initial vet exam seemed all good but then the blood results came back... I am a cat owner myself and have extensive experience with my own cat's veterinary needs but not with feline diabetes. But I have done a heap of reading in the last few days, including on Dr Lisa's website. Until the owners have a discussion with the vet (they are in Germany, I am in New Zealand, so it's a bit tricky) and make their decisions about how they wish to proceed, I am mostly just waiting. No insulin or any other treatment is taking place at this stage, and no other tests, except for the results from the full blood panel we had taken, which everything else was normal and vet said it was probably very recent that the diabetes has come on, as liver enzymes looked normal and he is not showing signs of dehydration.

However, being the good cat mama I am, I have been researching, and I have made diet changes, onto wet food low carb (currently awaiting some responses from New Zealand food manufacture companies to figure out the best options but have managed to find some Fancy Feast and some raw cat food mince which i think is going to be the best thing in the meantime) and have cut him off from biscuits (he used to get both biscuits and wet). He is fine with this, though always wanting more.

I figured that is probably the best I can do to help him at the moment, and from what I have read, could even be enough to bring the BG down to reasonable levels.

So, the spreadsheet thing looked Very daunting to my cognitive functioning ability, and since I am not doing testings and insulin administering i figured it probably wasn't needed at this stage.

So my question is, has anyone here got experience of supporting a diabetic cat through diet alone?

He is constantly asking for food. This is partly just his regular behaviour as he was once a starving stray, and also partly probably stress at his humans being away, but i realise it is probably also his body telling him he is hungry because it is not getting the nutrition it needs. I am being very careful not to overfeed him but wondering if i should spread out the quantity of food over more than two meals a day, or give him more food than the recommended amount for his weight (he is not overweight).

My other main reason for joining is for general moral support as it is pretty weird navigating caring for a cat that is not mine and therefore not being able to make all the decisions relating to finance and commitment balanced with what is best for the cat, whilst currently being this cat's carer and dealing with his constant demands for food and attention! (the opposite of my own, hyperthyroid CKD cat!)

Thanks in advance for any input.

*Also just to add, the wet food I am feeding him now is a mix of Fancy Feast Classic Pate, raw cat food supermarket mince (blend of beef, beef heart, pork, pork heart, turkey and duck and rabbit) and other canned loaf style cat foods found in my New Zealand local supermarket. The mince is not a 'complete' food so i am mixing it prob 60mince/40can, to try give him max protein and also all the other nutrients from the complete foods. Any input on whether this ratio is good would also be welcome.
 
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Yes! Please feed him as much as he wants and smaller meals throughout the day are ideal - it’s easier on his pancreas and helps avoid big sugar spikes. Twice a day only works for dogs but not for cats who have much higher metabolism. Also, diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat but are always hungry and will lose weight.

I’ll let others talk more about diet. Good for you for helping him as much as you can right now!
 
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Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Yes! Please feed him as much as he wants and smaller meals throughout the day are ideal - it’s easier on his pancreas and helps avoid big sugar spikes. Twice a day only works for dogs but not for cats who have much higher metabolism. Also, diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat but are always hungry and will lose weight.

I’ll let other talk more about diet. Good for you for helping him as much as you can right now!
Click to expand...


Thank you, i had a feeling this might be the case.
 
Hi Kathryn and welcome to the forum,
I am glad you have swapped over to a low carb diet for Gandi.
I am concerned however that you friends will not be back until September. That is a long way off for a diabetic kitty who is not getting insulin.
The problem is if a diabetic kitty is not getting insulin they are at risk of getting ketones which can progress to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is deadly if not treated promptly.
Are they planning to talk to the vet before they come home? I would encourage them to talk to the vet asap so that Gandi can start insulin.
In the meantime I would recommend you buy some ketostick from a pharmacy and test the urine to see there are no ketones. It is just a matter of collecting a urine sample from Gandi and testing the urine with one of the test strips and reading it exactly 15 seconds later. There should be no ketones. If there are keotnes in the urine you need to tell the vet.
The way to stop ketones forming is to feed food and give insulin.
So I would give Gandi plenty of food at the moment. Diabetic cats, who are not regulated, can't absorb all the nutrients in the food so are constantly hungry.
I live in Australia and made out a suitable food list for NZ a few years. I'm not sure how accurate it is now but i will give you the link
NEW ZEALAND FOOD CHART
Regarding the food you are getting from the supermarket, have a look and make sure it does not have any preservatives in it. Preservatives are definitely not something you want to be feeding him. And it should have taurine and some form of calcium in it. If you post a photo of the ingredients we can have a look for you. You will need to copy and paste the photo into the page.
I would not give more than 20% of an incomplete food to a cat for more than a few days.
Have a look at the Ziwi Peak freeze dried foods and their canned food.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Kathryn and welcome to the forum,
I am glad you have swapped over to a low carb diet for Gandi.
I am concerned however that you friends will not be back until September. That is a long way off for a diabetic kitty who is not getting insulin.
The problem is if a diabetic kitty is not getting insulin they are at risk of getting ketones which can progress to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is deadly if not treated promptly.
Are they planning to talk to the vet before they come home? I would encourage them to talk to the vet asap so that Gandi can start insulin.
In the meantime I would recommend you buy some ketostick from a pharmacy and test the urine to see there are no ketones. It is just a matter of collecting a urine sample from Gandi and testing the urine with one of the test strips and reading it exactly 15 seconds later. There should be no ketones. If there are keotnes in the urine you need to tell the vet.
The way to stop ketones forming is to feed food and give insulin.
So I would give Gandi plenty of food at the moment. Diabetic cats, who are not regulated, can't absorb all the nutrients in the food so are constantly hungry.
I live in Australia and made out a suitable food list for NZ a few years. I'm not sure how accurate it is now but i will give you the link
NEW ZEALAND FOOD CHART
Regarding the food you are getting from the supermarket, have a look and make sure it does not have any preservatives in it. Preservatives are definitely not something you want to be feeding him. And it should have taurine and some form of calcium in it. If you post a photo of the ingredients we can have a look for you. You will need to copy and paste the photo into the page.
I would not give more than 20% of an incomplete food to a cat for more than a few days.
Have a look at the Ziwi Peak freeze dried foods and their canned food.
Click to expand...


Hi and thank you so much for your info. I have just been on the phone to my friends and urging them to arrange to talk to the vets and get some more info so they can decide how they want to proceed. Gandi is an old cat and has almost always been an outdoor cat that wouldn't come int the house, they adopted him as a stray that showed up. So it makes things a bit tricky as far as them being able to treat him.

That being said, he started coming inside to eat about 2 months ago, and sitting on the sofa with them / us. So... i don't believe it would be that difficult to organise the procedures. But it is ultimately up to them, i suppose they are thinking that he is very old anyway and maybe they don't want to add to his stress by multiple vet visits and administering of injections (though i did explain that it is possible to do home testing and injections are pretty easy once you get the hang of it - my mum used to do it with one of our cats when i was growing up).

The link to the food chart didn't work? However i did find a page the other day with some info on food in New Zealand, i had my computer in the supermarket seeing what I could find that matched! All the can foods i have comply with the guidelines for complete balanced diet for cats and contain taurine and calcium except the raw mince ones. i will pass on the info to the owners about the freeze dried foods, and i am awaiting more specific info from the food manufacturers here about the protein and carb %. What is the problem with preservatives? I mean, i know they are not ideal, but is there something specific that causes you to say this? I have looked at all the different labels and the only ones containing preservatives are the raw mince incomplete foods. I just thought they were a good thing to give because it's an obvious hefty lot of protein without carbs.

Anyway, many thanks for the info and I have passed this on to owners. I have told them i am willing to do whatever they decide but they need to get more info from the vet etc and ultimately make the decisions.

Do you have any idea what it might look like for a cat with his BG to not receive insulin, if they decide to 'let nature take its course'?


*i found the link i was using the other day - prob the same one you were just trying to send me :) - https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-canned-and-air-freeze-dried-cat-food.219904/
 
FOOD CHART
See if that works.
The preservatives in the mince destroys certain vitamins that are needed for the metabolism of the carbohydrates.
You would be better off feeding a canned food and then just giving about 10% of human grade raw mince or chicken breast or something like that. Also a cooked egg is very nutritious. I feed my cats a home made raw diet and I use meat from the supermarket…where I buy meat for us. It is actually cheaper than canned cat food. If you get some fresh meat, I would cut it up and freeze it is portions so you can get it out fresh each day.
We have a lot of people here that treat 16 year old cats. I would not let age be a deterrent.
It won’t ruin his quality of life…in fact he will probably like the extra attention and food! And they really take no notice of the injections or testing if you give a treat each time.
Also once you have got the insulin and are either hometesting or are using a freestyle libre that fits on the skin and tests automatically there is no need to keep going to the vet. We can help with the dosing and other diabetic needs.
If they do go ahead with insulin and I do hope they do, suggest to the vet you want glargine/Lantus insulin. It might be called either of those names or optisulin in NZ. Don’t let them use Caninsulin/vetsulin….that is a dog insulin which vets often use for cats.
Yes, that is the link I was sending you. I reposted it before I saw you had sent me the link back.

I would not leave a diabetic cat without insulin to just take its course. That would be cruel as they would starve as they can’t utilise the nutrition the food. Or they would get ketoacidosis from not having the insulin…that is where testing for ketones comes in.
Occasionally a cat will go into remission after begin put onto a low carb diet so it would be worth while getting his blood glucose tested again after a couple of weeks on just the low carb food. If the BGs are still high, insulin is the only answer. A percentage of cats go into remission after being on insulin for a time.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
FOOD CHART
See if that works.
The preservatives in the mince destroys certain vitamins that are needed for the metabolism of the carbohydrates.
You would be better off feeding a canned food and then just giving about 10% of human grade raw mince or chicken breast or something like that. Also a cooked egg is very nutritious. I feed my cats a home made raw diet and I use meat from the supermarket…where I buy meat for us. It is actually cheaper than canned cat food. If you get some fresh meat, I would cut it up and freeze it is portions so you can get it out fresh each day.
We have a lot of people here that treat 16 year old cats. I would not let age be a deterrent.
It won’t ruin his quality of life…in fact he will probably like the extra attention and food! And they really take no notice of the injections or testing if you give a treat each time.
Also once you have got the insulin and are either hometesting or are using a freestyle libre that fits on the skin and tests automatically there is no need to keep going to the vet. We can help with the dosing and other diabetic needs.
If they do go ahead with insulin and I do hope they do, suggest to the vet you want glargine/Lantus insulin. It might be called either of those names or optisulin in NZ. Don’t let them use Caninsulin/vetsulin….that is a dog insulin which vets often use for cats.
Yes, that is the link I was sending you. I reposted it before I saw you had sent me the link back.

I would not leave a diabetic cat without insulin to just take its course. That would be cruel as they would starve as they can’t utilise the nutrition the food. Or they would get ketoacidosis from not having the insulin…that is where testing for ketones comes in.
Occasionally a cat will go into remission after begin put onto a low carb diet so it would be worth while getting his blood glucose tested again after a couple of weeks on just the low carb food. If the BGs are still high, insulin is the only answer. A percentage of cats go into remission after being on insulin for a time.
Click to expand...

Thank you, i will pass on this info to them. Actually, the Jimbo's on the food chart is the one with preservatives. Do you want me to let you know when i get other info from pet food companies?
 
Hi Bron, thank you for asking.

Well, unsurprisingly i suppose, i have not had responses from the pet food companies, except for Mars New Zealand who have told me that their Whiskas cans of jelly loaf contain between 1.5-2.5% carbohydrate (though i am a little suspicious of that because the can lists typical composition as crude protein 7.5% and crude fat 5.5% but no other elements).

I am still waiting to hear from the owners after they have arranged to speak with the vet (from germany to NZ) and make their decision. In the meantime i just keep feeding Gandi the wet canned food and no biscuits and a bit of raw mince, and hope that this helps.

Gandi is always wanting more food, so within half an hour of eating he is asking again, and miaowing at my door whenever he can hear me moving around (i live with my own cat in an apartment attached to the house his owners live in, so he is not actually indoors with me). I am feeding him morning, afternoon and late at night, and trying to keep it regular and not overdoing it. This eating request is partly normal for his history as a stray starving adopted cat; he has been known to be an overeater and a stress eater and may be stressed about his owners being away, but obviously is also because of his high blood glucose and i expect is feeling hungry all the time. It is quite wearing on my emotionally that's for sure. I will update you once i have next contact from owners, but it looked from their conversations so far like they didn't want to go down the road of treating with insulin.

Perhaps I will weigh him in the next few days and see how that is compared to two weeks ago when i took him to the vet.

I wonder if i should be feeding him even more to compensate for lack of insulin but don't want to stress the pancreas out even further with too much food!

I suppose the other thing i could do in the meantime is figure out getting home testing kit for blood glucose and do some recordings.... do you guys get those from the regular human pharmacy (sorry, i know if i do this i need to read up on the site all about it and can prob find all the info i need there, but just asking here quickly for the time being).

Thanks again for checking in, I really appreciate it.
 
You can get a blood glucose meter from any human pharmacy. Some people buy on line - prices can vary. You'd ideally get a meter that needs just a small drop of blood. And do compare the price of test strips as that is what you will go through the most. This post might help you get started on home testing: Hometesting Links and Tips
 
Hi Kathryn,
You are really very kind trying to help Gandi. I do hope his owners decide to treat him with insulin.
As Wendy can pick up a human meter from a pharmacy.
The Ziwi Peak and the Feline Natural cat food made in NZ is excellent quality and low carb.
 
I would also feed him as much as he wants right now. Unregulated diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food well so they eat but are always hungry and will lose weight. Especially without insulin, he could lose a lot of weight as the diabetes is not being treated. I do hope his owners understand the urgency of treating him for it very soon for his sake and well being.

thank you for helping him!

PS - would his owners come here by any chance and check out the info on feline diabetes themselves? It may help them make the right decision. No matter where they are in the world, there will be someone here to answer their questions.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Kathryn,
You are really very kind trying to help Gandi. I do hope his owners decide to treat him with insulin.
As Wendy can pick up a human meter from a pharmacy.
The Ziwi Peak and the Feline Natural cat food made in NZ is excellent quality and low carb.
Click to expand...

Hi Bron, thank you, i have only just seen this message.
Came here to let you know that after blood fructosamine test of 590 we have a confirmed diagnosis of diabetes, so now i am waiting for owners to decide with what they want to do.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
I would also feed him as much as he wants right now. Unregulated diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food well so they eat but are always hungry and will lose weight. Especially without insulin, he could lose a lot of weight as the diabetes is not being treated. I do hope his owners understand the urgency of treating him for it very soon for his sake and well being.

thank you for helping him!

PS - would his owners come here by any chance and check out the info on feline diabetes themselves? It may help them make the right decision. No matter where they are in the world, there will be someone here to answer their questions.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for this.
After blood fructosamine test result has just come in at, 590 we have a confirmed diagnosis of diabetes, so now i am waiting for owners to decide with what they want to do. I have given them the details of this page, yes.
One good thing about the vet visit for the blood test was that he has not lost weight since the first vet trip about 4 weeks ago, during which time i switched his food. I'm feeding his meals spread out around 4 times a day. He always asks for more but we dont know how much that is the diabetes and how much that is him missing his people, and his historical habit of always wanting food (for years and years, ever since he was found as a stray).

Either way, it is tough for me here with him knowing he is most likely hungry all the time. But... i do my best :)

Thanks again
 
Hi All,
Here is an update on Gandi.

Owners have decided to treat him :)
So I will be taking him into the vet clinic on Wednesday to do the initial injection and blood glucose curve.

If it was my cat i would be super keen to get home monitoring onboard ongoingly (maybe even from the start), in fact i think that this is what Jane(owener) is also considering, but at this stage beginning the process with the vet experience seems like a good way to go, especially since the owner is on the other side of the world and doesn't have great internet access or capacity to be researching everything, and I also have limited resources in terms of energy management (and my own cat with chronic health management requirements). Thankfully i feel pretty relaxed about administering injections!

I will do my best to ensure the vet is not using the Caninsulin/Vetsulin that everyone here is non-recommending, although i presume because i am not the owner that to some extent they will need to follow their standard procedure unless owner states otherwise. Ironically, my usual vet who i have a great relationship with, is also away overseas on holiday! But will definitely switch over to her when she returns in a few weeks.

I have read a bit on the AAHA guidelines to get a bit more up to speed on the finer details. Ultimately i am not going to be able to avoid the need to learn all the ins and outs of it myself, as it is another 7 weeks til owners return. So, time to buckle myself in!!

I realise that doing BG tests at home gives better monitoring in the long run but feel like this middle ground of at least getting him started on insluin with the vet clinic observing it all, is a good place to be.

And can't wait to see how this affects his behaviour and constant miaowing/food demands.

Thanks for all the moral support and all the information shared on this forum.
 
I do have a question though.
To everyone when they started out did they start in this way with a BGC at the vets, or go Straight to home monitoring and all very D.I.Y.?
I realise that the stress hyperglycaemia is very real, though I am sure the vet clinic take that into account when they are looking at the figures. And because i don't really have a relationship with this particular vet, it feels a bit more awkward to question things and offer information that might be alternate to their standard procedure - especially since i am not the owner, so everything would need to come from the owner if there was a decision to deviate from what the vet would recommend. Very tricky!

PS. i am also reading through the message board newbies FAQs which is really helping, thank you :)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb-faq.htm
 
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