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LovingOpie

LovingOpie

Active Member
Hello, I am a relatively new member and have posted a link on the main forum https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-now-updated-with-signature-chart.277345/

Opie has never been regulated in over a year and a half and since being here we learned more about SLGS and started a few days ago at 1.75 units. Yesterday upped it to 2 units and his numbers finally went down after being forever in the 300's only to go right back up today. I am getting scared and frustrated. I thought that by posting here in this forum I might get more answers. I have another 2 cycles tomorrow before I can change the dose. Even before this, every time we raise the dose his numbers go up and yet we never get lower to where we should be. Look at his chart and let me know your thoughts.
 
So are you now following SLGS? If so, I am wondering why you increased the dose from 1.75 to 2 prematurely. This is not a criticism, but I am trying to get caught up with what’s been going on. I’m glad you posted over here so I could help you. I got an email showing that you had posted in this ProZinc forum. I didn’t see the tags that people had sent me this week.
 
I think Opie is bouncing from the blue of yesterday. Let’s hold the dose of 2 units for 7 days before increasing, okay? Please continue to log as many tests as you can. You have gotten some good advice so far on the other forum. I see you are now getting the nighttime “before bed test” which is important so that you can find out whether you need to give a snack or set an alarm to wake up and test. So far he’s mostly in the pinks, but I am hoping that soon we will see better numbers.

There may be some glucose toxicity in play here.
 
I see that you shoot at 6:30 Central. That’s 7:30 Eastern. I’m on Eastern time. I will check here again tonight with you to see if you have replied and I will check in with you in the morning to see your preshot number. I get up at five every day anyway.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
So are you now following SLGS? If so, I am wondering why you increased the dose from 1.75 to 2 prematurely. This is not a criticism, but I am trying to get caught up with what’s been going on. I’m glad you posted over here so I could help you. I got an email showing that you had posted in this ProZinc forum. I didn’t see the tags that people had sent me this week.
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hello and thank you for responding, was wondering why I hadn't seen anything from you. . . I was told by another member on the other post to change the dose after the 6 cycles, do you think it is too soon? What is the glucose toxicity? can it be reversed?
 
Glucose toxicity is pretty much just where the cat becomes comfortable in higher BG numbers. It can take a little time to break through. It can make them more bouncy because their bodies are just used to being in higher numbers. It just means that he will probably need more insulin until you break through to a better dose. That is already what you are trying to do, so really we will just keep on working on the problem. Also just be aware that sometimes cats will act “off” when they start spending more time in lower numbers. Some cats will act lethargic, some will hide— they just feel weird and will act more “normal” in the higher numbers. They need time to adjust.
 
As to increasing the dose, if following SLGS, you would hold the dose for 7 days. I believe you were trying to find a good “starting dose” for when you first began following SLGS— so it’s all good. Just keep up the testing and we will be able to break through soon, I hope. Don’t lose heart! You have come a long way and I can tell how much you love the adorable Opie (I love his photo!). I understand your frustration. I really do!
 
LovingOpie said:
yes it is a human meter and thanks for clearing what the toxicity is because I was getting scared . . . about the dosing method, I don't care which method we use as long as I get results and the faster the better since he has been at this level of numbers for a very long while now.
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Perfect! Things are going to get better! Please bear with us. Tell me, how is Opie acting these days? How does he seem? I gotta go feed the horde now, but I will be back in a bit.
 
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He is not drinking a lot but his appetite though better the last day or so has been not so good. He has lost a lot of weight and is being fussy about the food. We have him on fancy feast classic pate. The times he did go low around 50 he didn't show any signs so he takes all the changes well I guess. He is funny, when we need to test I call him and he comes and hunches down in front of us and waits. A special boy.
 
LovingOpie said:
He is not drinking a lot but his appetite though better the last day or so has been not so good. He has lost a lot of weight and is being fussy about the food. We have him on fancy feast classic pate. The times he did go low around 50 he didn't show any signs so he takes all the changes well I guess. He is funny, when we need to test I call him and he comes and hunches down in front of us and waits. A special boy.
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Oh what a sweetheart! Has he been to the vet recently? Has he had any bloodwork done since his diagnosis? How old is Opie?
 
So just to reconfirm the plan: you will hold the 2 unit dose for a total of 14 cycles (7 days) unless he drops below 90, which would warrant a .25 unit reduction. Okay? Obviously, if you get a really low preshot number you may need to reduce for that cycle, but otherwise continue with the 2 units. Sound like a plan? Post here for advice, moral support, etc. ❤️
 
Our vet has retired and we haven't found a new vet. I keep in touch with the old vet and ask him things on the phone when I need help but he is of no help for Opie. He says he just went to a diabetes seminar and was told not to stress the numbers and says since he is ok clinically than don't worry. Says a lot of cats are fine in those numbers. . . . blah blah blah he is the reason why we kept raising the dose at the beginning to almost 9 units with no waiting in between. . . he told us everything wrong

he had blood work done around the time of diagnosis. He is about 12 pounds and is 10 years old.
 
I will follow the plan as you suggest (what would a low reshot be in order to lower dose) and it is always mentioned about too low but what about him going higher and higher?

I am happy to know that you will be there should I need it, I like to know that you will keep watching the chart each day and know how we are doing. Thanks and have a good night.
 
LovingOpie said:
Our vet has retired and we haven't found a new vet. I keep in touch with the old vet and ask him things on the phone when I need help but he is of no help for Opie. He says he just went to a diabetes seminar and was told not to stress the numbers and says since he is ok clinically than don't worry. Says a lot of cats are fine in those numbers. . . . blah blah blah he is the reason why we kept raising the dose at the beginning to almost 9 units with no waiting in between. . . he told us everything wrong

he had blood work done around the time of diagnosis. He is about 12 pounds and is 10 years old.
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That’s a long time for a ten year old cat to go without having any routine bloodwork done. I hope you will be able to find a new vet that you like. I was just looking at his spreadsheet and thinking…. how are his teeth? Tooth problems in a cat can contribute to insulin resistance so that is the reason I ask.
 
I am worried about Opie staying high for such a long time with no changes, I mean he has been in these numbers for a seriously long time. Do we have to stay with the week for each higher dose increase?

We did look into the teeth situation and he had an abscess from hitting his tooth on a hard surface while playing, we fixed it and had the tooth extracted. The rest of his teeth are good. It never altered his numbers. . .
 
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I am so sorry that your messages did not get emailed to me and I didn't look. I am so happy that you were following up and cared enough to be there. Thank you.
 
Thank you for the information about the teeth. I'm happy you got it resolved. Does he have any history of DKA? Are you testing his urine for ketones?
 
I don't like seeing it either. I tell you what... you have waited six cycles since he had that blue nadir (so any bounce would be cleared) .... soooo... if Opie were my cat and his preshot test tonight was pink, I would increase to 2.25 units. What do you think about that? But you would need to get a test (or two) in the evening cycle. You've been doing so great with the testing that I'm sure you will not have a problem with this. I really am hoping for better numbers for Opie. I remember how I felt when Darcy was stuck in numbers like that. I was so worried. :bighug:
 
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LovingOpie said:
I am so sorry that your messages did not get emailed to me and I didn't look. I am so happy that you were following up and cared enough to be there. Thank you.
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I've been checking his spreadsheet every morning at least. I set myself an alarm on my phone and I will hear it at 7:15 a.m. and I'll say... oh, time to check Opie's spreadsheet. I'm sad that I've only seen pink so far... but we WILL get him into better numbers!
 
you are truly WONDERFUL! I think we can go up as well so YES, we will go for it. Almost time now. . . glad I saw this ahead of time. Still not getting emails updated.
 
LovingOpie said:
you are truly WONDERFUL! I think we can go up as well so YES, we will go for it. Almost time now. . . glad I saw this ahead of time. Still not getting emails updated.
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You may need to change your preferences. Touch your name at the top right corner of the screen. Go to preferences and there are a lot of choices about how you want to be notified about messages and replies. I hope this works.
 
there is no change in his numbers. . . . ugh

preferences were checked correctly, we don't test for ketones, vet said no evidence of it clinically
 
I’m sorry. I did look this morning. I have a feeling he will need another increase but we can’t rush the process too much and still keep him safe — or just plain old mess up the process by increasing too quickly. If there’s no downward movement in his numbers after 6 cycles, which I think would be the evening of May 19, then give him another .25 unit increase. You will just need to keep up your testing like you always do. It’s not unusual to see some “new dose wonkiness” after an increase— where numbers go higher after an increase for perhaps a cycle or two. I saw this a lot. I don’t necessarily expect this with Opie, but I just mention it as a possibility.

NOTE TO LURKERS: The above dosing recommendation is for Opie only because (1) he is not a newly diagnosed kitty (diagnosed 9/2021,) (2) he’s not new to ProZinc, and (3) there’s a lot of data on his spreadsheet. This recommendation would not apply to other cats.
 
I do feel that the modified method is more of what we need so thank you. I also know that Opie's numbers always tend to go up the higher in dose we go and that is why we continually went back down before. He is definitely not the norm.
 
The new dose wonkiness I was referring to is just a temporary increase in BG after a dose increase, usually occurring on the second day after the increase and not lasting for more than a cycle or two. Opie just seems so flat! He hardly budges. I understand. Been there done that. Let’s work through the process and see where it leads. MPM will help us get there faster, yes. Now if he starts having blue nadirs (we can hope) we will have to hold the dose a bit longer, but for now let’s press on. Big hugs to you!
 
Grab a +1 or +2, make sure he's still not dropping too fast before the insulin kicks in. He's been heading down since PMPS last night, don't know if today AMPS is the end of the clearing cycle or if he still has some downward momentum in him.

Go Opie Go!
 
Wow. What a great preshot! I hope you are testing and giving snacks! I’m checking his spreadsheet and I wish I could see more. But I know you will take good care of him. I am sitting here at the University of Georgia Veterinary Teaching Hospital. It’s more than two hours away from our home so I’ve been driving all morning. I will check back in on you and Opie later on. I’m excited!
 
LovingOpie said:
missed that email, sorry. . . here's the bounce 348, guess that is to be expected
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But he’s proven to us that he can get a lower yellow preshot. That’s good. Let’s see how long it takes him to clear the bounce. I would not do further increases until I made sure that he’s cleared it.
 
are you a vet? Just wondering. :) He dropped some again. Do you think the food matters with the ups and downs? yes, I know it does but we feed him all day long to get enough food in him and the last couple of days I tried 9Lives because he is getting tired of fancy feast. It is on the list for less than 10% carbs but I worry because when I did the carb calculator it says more % on a dry matter basis than what the chart says. I trusted the chart because it is the one that everyone uses here. Not a great food but if he eats it that is what matters at this point. He is always hungry but he is also very fussy. He stares at me, I stare at him and it is a showdown of whether or not I will open yet another can of something else. . . LOL
 
you know, when you asked me about ketones I only had a vague idea of what they were so I read some info from this site. I am very upset that it is just another thing that I hadn't been told from the beginning as I should have been. IF there are ketones in the urine what is done about it? Not saying Opie has this, just wondering for future reference.

When we get to 50 posts what happens? Do we have to start another thread?
 
LovingOpie said:
you know, when you asked me about ketones I only had a vague idea of what they were so I read some info from this site. I am very upset that it is just another thing that I hadn't been told from the beginning as I should have been. IF there are ketones in the urine what is done about it? Not saying Opie has this, just wondering for future reference.

When we get to 50 posts what happens? Do we have to start another thread?
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Well, I am a little sensitive about ketones since my cat spent a week in the ER when he went into DKA. Now, I am not saying that this will happen to Opie, but it would not hurt to check his ketones periodically. When you said your vet didn’t think you should check them, I wasn’t happy. I was thinking about talking to you about it soon.
 
LovingOpie said:
are you a vet? Just wondering. :) He dropped some again. Do you think the food matters with the ups and downs? yes, I know it does but we feed him all day long to get enough food in him and the last couple of days I tried 9Lives because he is getting tired of fancy feast. It is on the list for less than 10% carbs but I worry because when I did the carb calculator it says more % on a dry matter basis than what the chart says. I trusted the chart because it is the one that everyone uses here. Not a great food but if he eats it that is what matters at this point. He is always hungry but he is also very fussy. He stares at me, I stare at him and it is a showdown of whether or not I will open yet another can of something else. . . LOL
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I am not a vet. I was at the university hospital with my cat. He had a Strontium 90 radiation treatment on his nose today (under anesthesia.). He is a cat I rescued from the outdoors and is a white cat. He has squamous cell carcinoma on his nose from the sun (not uncommon in white cats). It was a 2.5 hour drive each way. We had quite the day. He is sleeping in my lap now.
 
About food — have you tried Friskies pates. I know they are low carb. The pates like Poultry Platter, Liver and Chicken dinner, Turkey and Giblets, Country Dinner. I know they are low carb and cats like them. Not the premium “boutique foods” (what some vets like to call them!)
 
So sorry to hear about your cats nose. I hope the treatment works for him. I have a rife generator and that sometimes works miracles, I guess it just depends on the individual and how they respond to it. Hasn't worked for Opie though I don't try enough either.

I have some friskies pate and was about to give that a try as well. I was sad to see his numbers so high again. Will we have to give him longer at 2.25 because of the bounce or do you still think tomorrow PM?

will try to add testing for ketones in the near future. You will have to walk me through that one.
 
good morning! How is your boy doing this morning?

What is it we look for exactly when determining effects of the bounce and how long to wait?
 
LovingOpie said:
good morning! How is your boy doing this morning?

What is it we look for exactly when determining effects of the bounce and how long to wait?
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Marcus is doing great, thank you! He slept next to me all night long and he sat on my lap all morning long until I finally had to kick him off just to get up! He's hungry, too.

As for the bouncing, hopefully we will see Opie come back down into yellow numbers. Bounces can last up to six cycles, but hopefully in Opie's case it won't. He's stuck in pink for now. I can't wait to see a yellow on there again... and then on to blue! Let's see what happens today and tonight before making any decisions. Will that be okay?
 
So happy about Marcus! He sounds wonderful, a true companion and friend. Nothing is better than a cat in my opinion. He is a lucky boy to have found you.

Yes it is absolutely ok. We trust you 100% and whatever you say, we will do. I like to know what and why I am doing something so I ask to understand.
 
LovingOpie said:
So happy about Marcus! He sounds wonderful, a true companion and friend. Nothing is better than a cat in my opinion. He is a lucky boy to have found you.

Yes it is absolutely ok. We trust you 100% and whatever you say, we will do. I like to know what and why I am doing something so I ask to understand.
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Absolutely! I’m totally in agreement with asking questions. It’s a bit of a learning curve with Feline Diabetes since there’s so much management involved.
 
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