4/27 Newman - AMBG 218, fed. 228 shot 2.0, 78 @ +5, 65 @ 5.5

Linda and Newman

Linda and Newman

Member Since 2010
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-question-edit-to-add-129-6-5-142-7-5.274429/

I wanted to ask about the lower numbers I am getting for Newman. As you can see on the SS, there have been no adjustments to the dose. We have been at 2 units for about 7 weeks and now, the last three mornings I'm getting numbers below 200.

Nothing else has changed. We stay as close to on time as possible and there are no changes to diet.

Is this unusual or common? Should I celebrate or use caution?

If you can, please take a look and tell me what you think. Thanks.
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
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I think he’s making progress and doing great. His cycles are looking so good. It must be a little nerve wracking though. According to your notes, each time you have stalled he has been on the way up. That is good to know. I hope the stall hasn’t been stressing Ozzie and Minnie too much?
 
Ozzie seems to have learned to be patient and Minnie gets a snack while she waits for breakfast. So I guess we just stay the course and be pleased with progress!

Thanks for taking a look, I know you are busy.
 
Linda and Newman said:
Ozzie seems to have learned to be patient and Minnie gets a snack while she waits for breakfast. So I guess we just stay the course and be pleased with progress!

Thanks for taking a look, I know you are busy.
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You are doing sooo well with him. I wonder if he knew we were talking about him. He decided to give you a break this morning.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You are doing sooo well with him. I wonder if he knew we were talking about him. He decided to give you a break this morning.
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Thanks for the compliment and know that I couldn't have gotten this far without you and Melissa.

I think the 293 this morning was due to the fact that I slept a little longer and got a later start. I am usually up by 6:30 and this morning it was closer to 7:00.

I do think we have made some progress. Thankful that he is so cooperative.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Newman is a good boy! Has he been watching animals outside lately? Iguanas?
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I haven't seen any iguanas lately, but he watches intently. I'm sure he sees things that I don't although I think he can be fooled by the wind in the bushes. We do have an abundance of cardinals, blue jays and orioles. The cats like to watch the cardinals the best.
 
Do you put put a bird feeder? We have quite a few bird feeders and, of course, a hummingbird feeder — the cats love watching the birds. Occasionally they will launch themselves at the window where the hummingbird feeder is! I love the Cardinals too.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Do you put put a bird feeder? We have quite a few bird feeders and, of course, a hummingbird feeder — the cats love watching the birds. Occasionally they will launch themselves at the window where the hummingbird feeder is! I love the Cardinals too.
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I have tried feeders over the years and end up feeding the squirrels. In fact, the squirrels ate the last feeder and I decided not to replace it. I like the squirrels, but they can't resist the feeders. We are lucky to have a lot of foliage, blooming with flowers which is attractive to the cardinals and orioles. Other trees have berries which attract many birds. I have a bird book we keep on hand on the screened porch, but I am not good at all for identifying except for the obvious. Often we put some peanuts in the shell, on the garden bench and bird baths for the jays and squirrels.

Either we don't get many hummingbirds, which I expect or because they would be among the flowering hedges and hard to see. I have seen a few from time to time. I think we may be too close to the coast for hummers. My sister in Georgia has hummingbird feeders and they swarm to them. I always loved watching her hummers.
 
Took a chance on shooting on the lower number this morning, based several similar mornings when he has always been on the way up.

Just tested at +5 and got 78. I encouraged him to eat regular LC fancy feast. I will try to test at +5.5 or +6.

Of course I am a little nervous, haven't seen green for a long, long time.

@Suzanne & Darcy
@Shelley & Jess
 
He's 65 @ 5.5

I am feeding him some HC fancy feast.

ETA: Ok, I am starting to feel urgency mostly because I am home alone and I am afraid he will hide out of reach for me. I just added some Karo to the HC.

With Karo added I have gotten him up to 88 @+6. I will continue to test.
 
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65 is still in the safe zone. Now that you gave HC and Karo, you know he will come up from that. Is he where you can retest him? Is he acting hungry since he's in lower numbers? Remember that you only want to feed really small amounts to make sure he won't get filled up (so you can keep giving him HC if needed.)
 
I guess we have learned that if he has a lower yellow preshot, then we can't assume that he's on the way up. He probably was, but needed a little more time and he needed to "start" from just a little bit higher place if you don't want him in green. It looks like you retested this morning (218, 228). How many minutes between those two tests? Also, with meter variance, the difference between 218 and 228 is negligible. It's a little bit confusing because look at 4/23 and 4/24. He started from a pretty low yellow preshot those days where you stalled and he stayed in blue from as far as we can tell. If you had been able to get a +2 or +3 test today you probably would have seen that he was going down and could have fed him then (probably just LC but maybe some higher end LC or MC). But I know it's not always possible with Newman and also this was kind of a surprise since he's been having blue nadirs on this dose. One thing you could consider would be to feed him first (even just a little) and then wait about 15 minutes and feed him the rest of his breakfast and shoot then. I don't know if this would work with Ozzie being there, too, or even if Newman would not just disappear on you once he had a small breakfast snack.
 
Linda and Newman said:
Okay, he is 136 @ 6.5
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Okay, that's good. Hopefully, he won't shoot up too quickly for the rest of the cycle, but he probably will bounce from this green at least a little bit. If Newman were my cat, I would not reduce the dose that he's been doing so well on. I would keep him at 2 units and keep managing it that way you have been doing (with the stalling to make sure he's starting at a point where you think he will be okay. Cutting his dose is just going to get him stuck in yellows again, I think, unless he's going to surprise us and need less insulin.
 
Linda and Newman said:
Just to let you know that I have seen your last 2 posts, but need a minute or so to think about what you have said. Thank you.

164 @ +7 just now
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No worries. No pressure. I'm just trying to think through the whole thing and figure out what happened today that was different than other days. Did he eat as much breakfast today? You did not stall at all today? Did you just retest right away to confirm the first AMPS reading?
 
Also, you can always drop him back down to 1.75 for a few days just to see what happens if you want to -- well the first few cycles are going to be bounce cycles anyway :-( I just know that I see people do decreases here on this Board and then it becomes obvious that their cat needs to go back up to the former dose -- and they hesitate to increase back up again. But it's okay either way you want to go. If strictly following the SLGS rules, you would decrease to 1.75, but people who are experienced do vary those a little if they have a lot of hard data (spreadsheet) on their cat. I'm really writing this mostly for any lurkers out there who might be confused.

Can you think of anything different today that was the reason for the lower green? No stall? Food? Timing?
 
He may do okay tonight with the 1.75 that you shot. His PMPS wasn’t particularly high so I have hope for a good cycle. Let’s hope that the reduction will hold. :) That would be cause for celebration. Good job today, Linda.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
He may do okay tonight with the 1.75 that you shot. His PMPS wasn’t particularly high so I have hope for a good cycle. Let’s hope that the reduction will hold. :) That would be cause for celebration. Good job today, Linda.
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Thank you Suzanne and thank you for your support throughout the afternoon.

For overnight tonight, I decided to take what seemed like the safer choice somewhat based on the idea that he probably goes lower on the night cycle, normally.

Today I learned that I can't trust that he is coming up on the lower values on AMPS, and I can't skip the stall procedure.

I liked seeing that green number today, but think I may have to be satisfied with blues we have been getting.

Lessons learned.
 
Let’s see what Newman is up to this morning. I think that, given his low-ish preshot and it being evening (not to mention the anxiety that he caused you this afternoon) I would have done the same. With ProZinc and other single cycle insulins, we can’t always say in advance what we will do until we see the preshot, right? Also, I would like to see how he does (again) on 1.75 units. Hope the reduction holds!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Let’s see what Newman is up to this morning. I think that, given his low-ish preshot and it being evening (not to mention the anxiety that he caused you this afternoon) I would have done the same. With ProZinc and other single cycle insulins, we can’t always say in advance what we will do until we see the preshot, right? Also, I would like to see how he does (again) on 1.75 units. Hope the reduction holds!
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A quick response this morning.

It is 7:15 am. He had his injection last night at 7:30 pm.

Now I will feed him about 2 tbsp of food in the kitchen. Next he returns to my desk for his AM dose, so there is usually about a 15 minute delay between food and injection, unless he vomits or decides to take his time. So I shoot based on that early test value.

Are you saying you would stay with the 1.75 units?
 
Yes. The stall seems to work well for him. Just to clarify though: you are taking the first BG test prior to the 2 tablespoons of food, right?
 
Okay Newman, time to pop a blue in with that string of sunshiny yellows, I'll be watching today! :)

Linda and Newman said:
Today I learned that I can't trust that he is coming up on the lower values on AMPS, and I can't skip the stall procedure.

I liked seeing that green number today, but think I may have to be satisfied with blues we have been getting.

Lessons learned.
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Want to comment on this too now that I have a bit of time - you have excellent data that shows what usually happens when shooting a low yellow. Gosh, you just did it several times in the last week, hitting the target nadir for Your/Newman's needs. Prozinc can be a little volatile at times. His pancreas may have decided to come out and play a bit more than usual that day. Who knows. He's a cat! It was just one of 'those days' and it was nothing you or Newman did or could have done differently - your instincts are good, you're doing fantastic & doing everything right!
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Okay Newman, time to pop a blue in with that string of sunshiny yellows, I'll be watching today! :)


Want to comment on this too now that I have a bit of time - you have excellent data that shows what usually happens when shooting a low yellow. Gosh, you just did it several times in the last week, hitting the target nadir for Your/Newman's needs. Prozinc can be a little volatile at times. His pancreas may have decided to come out and play a bit more than usual that day. Who knows. He's a cat! It was just one of 'those days' and it was nothing you or Newman did or could have done differently - your instincts are good, you're doing fantastic & doing everything right!
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Thank you Shelley.

Your review and all advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
2 skinny doesn’t seem to be working for him as well as the 2 was, but you have to try things sometimes
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I agree with you Suzanne and I had intended to get back on the 2 unit dose that had been working so well. The AMBG 263 was a go, but before I could dose him, he vomited his breakfast before he was completely finished eating. As things played out, I was more comfortable with a skinny dose which by then was an hour late.

We are back on track this evening although he tested at 239 which tickles my new self imposed rule not to skip a stall below 240, but I decided close enough!

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
I am giving Newman's ear a break today for healing. Remember, he only has one ear for testing because the other is badly wrinkled from a hematoma years ago.

He is back to acting more normal in his activity and socialization, so I believe he is probably in yellow numbers, with a chance for blue.
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good morning, Linda. I’m just checking in on you and Newman. Reading the notes about Newman and Ozzie playing, and the antics on the cat tree, made me smile. He must be feeling good!
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Newman and Ozzie can put on quite a show, usually at what is my bedtime. They make me smile, too.

Thanks for checking in on us. I do find comfort in your visits and in Shelley and Jess as well.
 
I’m really impressed with your consistency in dosing. I’m a little disappointed that we aren’t seeing more blue, but for now when you are quite busy, I would hold everything the same if he continues to stay around where he is now in BG numbers.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’m really impressed with your consistency in dosing. I’m a little disappointed that we aren’t seeing more blue, but for now when you are quite busy, I would hold everything the same if he continues to stay around where he is now in BG numbers.
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We were doing pretty well floating on blues for the period between the 8th up until a couple of days ago when pink showed up! Hopefully those numbers will settle down again. Like you mentioned, as I take care of myself for the next month, dictating our schedule.
 
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