? 22/4 - Freya is now hiding. How do we deal with this?

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SwedishLiz

SwedishLiz

Member Since 2023
Well, we had the scariest day today! Having increased Freya’s dose to 5.5 units this morning as the 5.25 dose just doesn’t seem to be making a dent in her BG levels, we knew she’d need more regular BG tests. Freya had different ideas; she hid. We turned the house upside-down, yet nothing… She’s an indoor rescue, so our panic was that she’d got out; hours spent searching & nothing, until she suddenly appeared, hence the lack of BG tests today.

If Freya is already so stressed after just 2 mths (my panic is that she’ll hide so I can’t give her the insulin!), I need as many tips/tricks from you all before this goes completely wrong!
Thank you in advance…
 
Thank you. We’ve not been giving treats as her glucose is still way too high & she only likes the high carb crunchy treats; we were hoping her sugars would respond better to the insulin so we could get away with the occasional treat but it’s just too risky atm. My house is not very large, plus has lots of furniture that she can crawl under so isolating, whilst possible, would mean just locking her in a single room & then hoping she didn’t escape & bolt when we open the door which doesn’t seem fair…
She’s eating, but less than usual (she enjoyed her prawns tonight though!). We’ve bought her some sardines as an occasional treat, but obviously can’t give her these every time we do a blood test. She’s been better today so hopefully yesterday was just a ‘blip’!
 
One most days your SS shows essentially a flat cure even with increasing dose. The exceptions are on
- 2/10 with a 50@+3 with dose of 2 ½ units,
- 2/14 with a 54@+8 at a dose of 1 ¼ units,
- 2/16 a AMPS of 50 with a previous dose of 1 ½ units,
- 3/7 an 18+3 with dose of 2, and
- 4/14 a 59@+8 with dose 5 ½.
Frequently a cats can withstand too high of a dose without a visible hypo and a sign of that is a relatively flat curve.

Your signature says diagnosed date was 2/3/2023 and your SS shows 2 units as the starting dose. Maybe 2 units is too high.
 
You can try freeze dried treats, baby food or even regular baked chicken. The idea is to build positive reinforcement so it gets easier to test. If you’re not doing that, all she’s associating with testing is, ouch this sucks and im going to hide. It doesn’t have to be just food, anything she loves can be a positive connection, like getting brushed under the chin or scratched behind the ears. The bottom line is you need her to think if I do this, I get that thing I love
 
You went up from 2 to 2.25 then back down to 2 and down to 1.5. Was there a reason? The numbers didn’t seem to require it. I’m also not sure I’d given a full dose with that low amps of 50. Did you ask for guidance on the Lantus forum? Is the meter you’re using pet of human?
 
Larry and Kitties said:
One most days your SS shows essentially a flat cure even with increasing dose. The exceptions are on
- 2/10 with a 50@+3 with dose of 2 ½ units,
- 2/14 with a 54@+8 at a dose of 1 ¼ units,
- 2/16 a AMPS of 50 with a previous dose of 1 ½ units,
- 3/7 an 18+3 with dose of 2, and
- 4/14 a 59@+8 with dose 5 ½.
Frequently a cats can withstand too high of a dose without a visible hypo and a sign of that is a relatively flat curve.

Your signature says diagnosed date was 2/3/2023 and your SS shows 2 units as the starting dose. Maybe 2 units is too high.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Larry. I know that when Freya was first diagnosed, you recommended that we reduce the dose so we tried (albeit briefly) but saw no improvement so have been steadily increasing her dose since then. She’s now getting into the ‘ridiculous dosage’ range with very little sign of improvement, plus she’s obviously struggling, hence the hiding, the constant excessive drinking/peeing…
If we reduce her dose, should we do it gradually or all in one go? What are the danger ranges for BG levels that we need to watch out for to know whether we’re reducing too quickly? What should we reduce to?
This disease in cats is almost impossible to manage - how can I tell whether her high BG levels are due to too little insulin or too much causing a bounce? As a human diabetic, I’m having to forget everything I thought I knew which is doubly frustrating; I know nothing ;-)
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
You can try freeze dried treats, baby food or even regular baked chicken. The idea is to build positive reinforcement so it gets easier to test. If you’re not doing that, all she’s associating with testing is, ouch this sucks and im going to hide. It doesn’t have to be just food, anything she loves can be a positive connection, like getting brushed under the chin or scratched behind the ears. The bottom line is you need her to think if I do this, I get that thing I love
Click to expand...
Freya won’t eat the freeze dried treats, baby food may be an option but we’ll have to check what’s available here in Sweden that’s onion/garlic free (plus low carb), chicken is already on the shopping list for tomorrow! We always make a point of kissing/petting Freya after a test/injection, she gets brushed fairly regularly anyway but I’m always a bit wary of brushing her just after an injection, just in case her scruff is a bit sore. We’re definitely trying with the positive reinforcement thing, but it’s early days on Freya’s journey so all help/suggestions gratefully received!
 
SwedishLiz said:
how can I tell whether her high BG levels are due to too little insulin or too much causing a bounce?
Click to expand...
Basically by trial and error. You can reduce dose or increase dose. You seem have been increasing dose and not getting better. With a depot insulin it it takes some time for a dose change to fully manifest itself. I would reduce dose. I would go to 1 unit for at lease 2 days and see what happens except if BG really increase after the first day since you never tried 1 unit. I have two cats that are on less than 1 unit, one of 0.9 and the other on 0.7 of glargine.. I am not happy but if I increase the dose even by 0.2 BGs go up.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
You went up from 2 to 2.25 then back down to 2 and down to 1.5. Was there a reason? The numbers didn’t seem to require it. I’m also not sure I’d given a full dose with that low amps of 50. Did you ask for guidance on the Lantus forum? Is the meter you’re using pet of human?
Click to expand...
I have done nothing without taking advice from the experts on here; I know nothing about feline diabetes! I was sent the link to the Lantus forum but then lost it so I’ve been posting here in the hope that it would still get picked up. My husband bought the BG monitor on the basis that it was recommended for cats but it appears that it is primarily for humans. I’m not too impressed with it; as a human diabetic, my Accu-chek machine would give me an error message if it did not have enough blood, Freya’s machine just seems to guess…
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Basically by trial and error. You can reduce dose or increase dose. You seem have been increasing dose and not getting better. With a depot insulin it it takes some time for a dose change to fully manifest itself. I would reduce dose. I would go to 1 unit for at lease 2 days and see what happens except if BG really increase after the first day since you never tried 1 unit. I have two cats that are on less than 1 unit, one of 0.9 and the other on 0.7 of glargine.. I am not happy but if I increase the dose even by 0.2 BGs go up.
Click to expand...
OMG! This seems drastic but as nothing we’ve tried so far seems to gave worked, we’ll give this a go! Thank you!
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Basically by trial and error. You can reduce dose or increase dose. You seem have been increasing dose and not getting better. With a depot insulin it it takes some time for a dose change to fully manifest itself. I would reduce dose. I would go to 1 unit for at lease 2 days and see what happens except if BG really increase after the first day since you never tried 1 unit. I have two cats that are on less than 1 unit, one of 0.9 and the other on 0.7 of glargine.. I am not happy but if I increase the dose even by 0.2 BGs go up.
Click to expand...
Note that she’s following the TR protocol tagging @tiffmaxee here for more guidance
 
tiffmaxee said:
Are you using a pet or human meter? Did she really get down to 18 on 3/7 or is that a typo?
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Husband bought a human meter which was also recommended for cats, so I have no idea…
That low may have been too little blood; I’m less than impressed with the accuracy of this BG monitor as it just seems to guess rather than give an error message if not enough blood.
 
They all read wonky if not enough or too much blood. You never want to shoot a 50 like you did. Also take a second test to confirm. With TR you can increase every 6 cycles bit once you see green you hold at least 10 cycles. You did start on a high dose and did t really follow TR. I a, going to discuss with others and be back. @Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
tiffmaxee said:
They all read wonky if not enough or too much blood. You never want to shoot a 50 like you did. Also take a second test to confirm. With TR you can increase every 6 cycles bit once you see green you hold at least 10 cycles. You did start on a high dose and did t really follow TR. I a, going to discuss with others and be back. @Bron and Sheba (GA)
Click to expand...
I have no idea how to read a cat blood test now. All BG monitors read wonky if too much/little blood? Seriously? How on earth can you ever be certain that ANY BG reading is correct?We started on the dose prescribed by the vet - who readily admitted that she knew nothing about feline diabetes. Are you now suggesting that SLGS may have been more appropriate? The only reason we adopted the TR regime is because Freya had already been diagnosed & started on her (utterly inappropriate) insulin regime which despite our best efforts, is still allowing Freya to suffer! I am now screaming - the conflicting advice here is just doing my head in! Thank you though, I’m no less conflicted but just maybe a little more educated!
 
SwedishLiz said:
I have no idea how to read a cat blood test now. All BG monitors read wonky if too much/little blood? Seriously? How on earth can you ever be certain that ANY BG reading is correct?We started on the dose prescribed by the vet - who readily admitted that she knew nothing about feline diabetes. Are you now suggesting that SLGS may have been more appropriate? The only reason we adopted the TR regime is because Freya had already been diagnosed & started on her (utterly inappropriate) insulin regime which despite our best efforts, is still allowing Freya to suffer! I am now screaming - the conflicting advice here is just doing my head in! Thank you though, I’m no less conflicted but just maybe a little more educated!
Click to expand...
Addendum - do I increase Freya’s dose to 6 units tomorrow morning?
 
SwedishLiz said:
I have no idea how to read a cat blood test now. All BG monitors read wonky if too much/little blood? Seriously? How on earth can you ever be certain that ANY BG reading is correct?We started on the dose prescribed by the vet - who readily admitted that she knew nothing about feline diabetes. Are you now suggesting that SLGS may have been more appropriate? The only reason we adopted the TR regime is because Freya had already been diagnosed & started on her (utterly inappropriate) insulin regime which despite our best efforts, is still allowing Freya to suffer! I am now screaming - the conflicting advice here is just doing my head in! Thank you though, I’m no less conflicted but just maybe a little more educated!
Click to expand...
Wendy&Neko said:
If a test is lower than expected, or seems out of place, test again.
Wendy&Neko said:
If a test is lower than expected, or seems out of place, test again.


No, you hold the dose for at least 6 cycles, tonight is cycle 4.
Click to expand...


No, you hold the dose for at least 6 cycles, tonight is cycle 4.
Click to expand...
I know, but watching the abject suffering is doing me in!=
 
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