Oscar's story and some more newbie questions.

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Sundance2023

Member Since 2023
I have been feeding a couple of stray cats that come around just about every night. One is semi-friendly and the other runs at the sight of anyone. One evening a new cat came around and I called and he came right up wanting affection, saw him a couple more nights. I then said to myself that is a cat that some scumbag has given up on and just abandon. Human's gave up on him once and if possible I was going to get him healthy and find a "good" family for him. It took a month before I saw him again, he was coming around late at night but not when I was up. I got him again about a week and a half ago and he is living in my garage for the time being (my other cat doesn't like him and he had diarrhea so I couldn't let him in the house yet). I took him to the vet and found he was diabetic. So it looks like he is my cat as it would be hard for 99% of people to take on a cat that will need the attention he will need. The Dr. gave me some meds that are clearing up the diarrhea and prescribed 1 unit of Glargine Insulin after each meal.

I am not out of the woods yet as the Dr. said the diabetes could be the result of other things like pancreatitis. So hopefully the insulin injections will lower the glucose levels. If not I'm not sure what to do but want to avoid have to put him down if possible till I must.

Some questions:
The Rx where I got the insulin said it expired in 28 days. I know with many thing the expiration date is not a drop dead date. Can I extend the use of the insulin and if so for how long (I am keeping it in the fridge)?

What is the best way to dispose of the needles? Currently I am bending over the needle, putting the cap back on and putting them in regular trash.

I have read that the insulin injection should be given about 1 hour after feeding. I took middle ground and am doing the injection about 30 min. after feeding. What is the consensus here?
 
Did you get a vial of insulin or a pen. Regardless, 28 days is for humans who carry it around and don’t keep it refrigerated all the time. My Lantus pens would last over 6 months after opened and over a year unopened in the fridge. Insulin must be given x2 a day every 12 hours but you can feed him more and should in fact as diabetics cats can’t process the nutrients in food well and need more food than a healthy cat would in order to not lose weight. Most of us feed the larger meals around shot time and then smaller meals or treats throughout the day. Speaking of food, what are you currently feeding him? Diabetic cats require low card food, 10% or less carbs and that’s typically wet versus dry food.

glargine is a gentle long lasting insulin. It’s the generic version of Lantus and so you don’t have to wait at all to shoot. One hour or at least 30 minutes is what’s recommended for fast acting harsher insulins like Vetsulin. Most of us who use Lantus, aka glargine, will test feed and shoot all within minutes so really no wait requires at all since it takes about 2 hours for the insulin to start acting.

do not dispose of the needles in your regular trash not matter what. You can find a sharps object recycling center near you and take them there. You can collect them in an empty laundry detergent bottle or most of those sites will give you a sharps container for free
 
Where do I get the pens (what brand do I look for) and are they for animals requiring a low dose (1 unit)?
The Vet said feed twice a day (he will definitely eat more than 2 times in a day) so
for now till I know if I am controlling his glucose I stick to 2 times. Once I do let him
eat more than two times should I test after each feeding?

Various YT videos say to insert the needle and pull back on the plunger to make sure there is no blood, how do you
do that with the pen's?

Oh, I got a 10ml vial which should last a while if the expiration is not a concern. I assume it will just lose it's effectiveness
over time and won't harm the cat if used past it's expiration?

Thanks for the info.
 
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

Please don’t wait to start feeding more than x2 a day. Diabetic cats can loose weight quickly and then you risk other more serious and life threatening issues like ketones. They need more calories than healthy cats as they burn them just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. Now that he’s unregulated is when it’s most important to feed more and it has no effect on his diabetes treatment. It’s also easier on their already compromised pancreas to eat more often and smaller meals throughout the day. Vets that treat feline diabetes like they treat canine diabetes will give this advice but it’s completely outdated and inaccurate. Not to mention the fact that cats have a much higher metabolism than dogs and need to eat more often. The amount of food and how often you feed has no impact on regulating the diabetes. What matters if the carb content of the food. You need to feed your cat low carb food and treats. Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments.

You don’t need to test after each feeding. You need to test before each shot to make sure it’s safe to give the insulin and a few more times to try to capture your cat’s nadir, lowest point in a 12 hour cycle. Here we dose by the nadir not the preshot values.

the pen just has less insulin in it so if you drop it let’s say and it breaks you’re not wasting as much as if you break a vial. You’d still draw with an syringe and insert it in the rubber tip of the pen. Glargine is cheaper than Lantus because it’s the generic option. If you’re in the US, Lantus tends to be expensive so a lot of people opt for glargine. I used to get my Lantus pens from Canada because it’s a 1/3 of rhe cost there. Mark’s Pharmacy is where most of use order from.

Can you please tell us what food you’re feeding him now?

With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus/Glargine or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.
 
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Sundance2023 said:
Also, what reading should I be looking for with the Relion Premier Classic meter?
Click to expand...
There’s not a reading you’re looking for. It takes time to get a cat regulated. We like to say they feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. I’d suggest you browse the glargine Lantus forum and read all the sticky notes to get familiar with what to expect on this journey
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
There’s not a reading you’re looking for.
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I don't understand, How can That be, it doesn't make any since. You have to know where your cat is and if that is to high or to low. If there isn't a reference number how do you know?
The vet said 70 glucose was normal. Am I reading glucose with the meter and does the meter (Relion Premier Classic) read the same value for human and cat blood or is there some conversion to
compensate? Also in humans the blood sugar spikes when you eat, I'm assuming that is so with cats as well. Isn't the point of injections of insulin after eating to keep the blood sugar from spiking into unsafe
levels after eating.
 
Apologies, I think I misunderstood your question. If you mean what is the normal range, it’s 80-120. what I meant is that you want to test and get your cats numbers and work to get them as close to that normal range as possible but it’s not something you achieve quickly. It takes a lot of dose adjustments and monitoring. We have 2 protocols here and you select the one you’re going to follow and based on that it tells you when to reduce or increase the dose. With SLGS, which is the less aggressive one, anytime your cat goes below 90 you decrease the dose by .25 or 1/4 unit so 70 would be considered too low in this scenario. I referred you to the Lantus forum sticky notes so you can read all the information for yourself and understand the process.

the insulin lasts for 12 hours so your cat can eat throughout the day since the insulin builds up a depot and keeps working during that 12 hour period. Think about humans, a diabetic person doesn’t just eat twice a day because the insulin keeps working throughout the day. In fact, the food will keep your cat from going to low. Low carry foods don’t cause as much of a spike as high carb foods do. Going too low is way more dangerous than being high. Does that make sense?
 
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You don’t have to convert the numbers from a human meter. Most of us here use them so we understand those numbers and human meters is all anyone used before pet meters were invented. Tagging @Bron and Sheba (GA) who might be able to explain all of this better than me!

I’ve asked what food you’re feeding him but you may have missed the question. Can you please tell us what food Oscar is on?

You want to read the yellow sticky notes here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
Sorry, I'm feeding him Friskies Pate and a few bits of raw chicken breasts each feeding. I saw a
post somewhere I think here that said that Friskies Pate was a good alternatives to expensive diabetic specific
cat food. I don't see the carb content on the can but will see if it's on the chart I was pointed to here. What carb content is desirable?

I looked at Bron and Sheba but didn't see anything right off and there were tons of posts, I don't have time to sift
through right now. All I need to know is how the number on a human meter convert to cats. In other words if 80 is
normal for cats what will the reading be on a human meter?
 
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Sundance2023 said:
Also, what reading should I be looking for with the Relion Premier Classic meter?
Click to expand...
I have Relion Prime (older model then Premier) that came with my Merele. I then bought a Relion Premier Compact for another cat to replace an other One Touch since I could no longer get the reasonably-priced test strips. The genuine OnTouch strips are about $1 each. I prefer the Compact since it is much smaller and easier to handle. There is also the Relion Premier Blu that will download to your one the BG readings.
 
Sundance2023 said:
What carb content is desirable?
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You want 10% at the very most, and around 6% or less ultimately for diabetic appropriate foods, chicken breast is good. Friskies Pate and FF pate are ok. (You will not find carb content on most cat foods, you need to calculate it or use the charts linked here. ) So you are on a good start for food ;)
Sundance2023 said:
All I need to know is how the number on a human meter convert to cats.
Click to expand...
Please do not panic about this, blood sugar is blood sugar (at least in a nutshell) and as stated above, human meters were used for many years before they invented animal specific meters. My vet still uses a human meter. The conversion you are asking about is not something to be overly worried about. As you read the sticky notes and links you will find that the high and low readings, and moreso the general trends of where your Oscar's blood glucose is sitting throughout the day is much more important.
 
OK, I'm sorry but this is driving me crazy. I am a retired aircraft mechanic and we dealt with specifics. I don't understand why it's so hard to get some
numbers from anyone. How do I know if Oscar's numbers are good or bad if I don't have a reference point. And how do I know what those numbers mean
if I don't know the conversion from human to cat with a human meter unless it's 1:1 and so far no one has answered that for me. I'm getting very frustrated
with the "oh numbers don't matter", yes they do or you would have a spreadsheet to record them. So please, somebody, what are normal numbers for a cat on a human meter?
P.S. where is this sticky note stuck, I don't see it?
Thanks
 
Sundance2023 said:
OK, I'm sorry but this is driving me crazy. I am a retired aircraft mechanic and we dealt with specifics. I don't understand why it's so hard to get some
numbers from anyone. How do I know if Oscar's numbers are good or bad if I don't have a reference point.
Click to expand...
Sorry this is so frustrating for you, but we've all been there. You are in a good place. Your reference is 80 to 120 as ale and minnie said above
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
. If you mean what is the normal range, it’s 80-120. what I meant is that you want to test and get your cats numbers and work to get them as close to that normal range as possible but it’s not something you achieve quickly.
Click to expand...
Sundance , Im not a long timer here, or full of knowledge to help, but the help here has put my cat into remission.... That I can vouch for. I learned a few things along this journey....
slow release gentle insulin such as lantus (glargine)_ help kittie heal and regulate
feeding low carb wet foods promotes healing and gives a more natural diet
multiple meals and a few snacks in the day help balance off potential BG spikes
high sustained BG over 300 (16.7) are hard on a cat's pancreas , and dropping below 50 (2.8) is danger zone and requires your attention.
The meter will be your guide, take it as a 1 for 1 conversion...... just to save your brain.... really high is what? Its really high. Turns out kitties can handle high better than lows.....
Im sorry I am not very good at linking the stickys we talked about. but I will give it a try
 
Thanks that helps a lot. I'm starting to get a clear picture. Hope to test the first time tomorrow when the last bit of what I need arrives.
I'm actually more nervous about the testing (prinking the guys ear and getting enough blood) than I was about the injections. He it such a good
cat he purrs the whole time I am giving the injection. How someone could give up on such an adorable, affectionate cat is beyond me. He is an
older cat but I think he still has a few years left if I can get past all his problems.

P.S. "high sustained BG over 300 (16.7)" these reading are 300 in mg/dL and 16.7 in mmo/L, correct?
 
I admire you and give you kudos for helping this wonderful Oscar guy!!!!!! a new diabetic cat is alot to handle..... everyone here just luvs kitties,,,, we got your back for what you are doing...... so waht have you got? please say what insulin, which syringes, what you are feeding and please set up a signature ( go up to top right right corner and click on your name) add your name, kitties name, diagnosis date(Dx) type of insulin and such,,,,,,, welcome!!!! sorry to give you a work list
 
You want to warm up the ear, you want to aim for the sweet spot and you want to give a low carb treat immediately after testing to build up positive association, wether your attempt was a success or failed. I used an old sock I filled up with rice and nuked in the microwave and held it up to Minnie’s ear for about 20-30 seconds till it was warm to the touch. Please make sure you set up your spreadsheet to start recording the numbers so members here can help you with dosage advice. In the beginning the advice is to not shoot or give a token dose if you get anything lower than 200. As someone said above, anything below 50 is a take action number and requires immediate attention as it can lead to a hypo. Good luck!
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Sundance2023 said:
Sorry, I'm feeding him Friskies Pate and a few bits of raw chicken breasts each feeding. I saw a
post somewhere I think here that said that Friskies Pate was a good alternatives to expensive diabetic specific
cat food. I don't see the carb content on the can but will see if it's on the chart I was pointed to here. What carb content is desirable?

I looked at Bron and Sheba but didn't see anything right off and there were tons of posts, I don't have time to sift
through right now. All I need to know is how the number on a human meter convert to cats. In other words if 80 is
normal for cats what will the reading be on a human meter?
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba is a member who I was tagging for you so he could chime in and comment
 
Is the spread sheet only available online? Can I download it to my goggle sheets?

Also how do you add and image inline and or a document (pdf) as an attachment or can you?
 
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