New - Numbers seem stuck at any level of Lantus

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Breelynne

Breelynne

Member Since 2023
My cat Allie was diagnosed on 01/26/2022 she is 12 years old. At first I thought it was her thyroid but she was starting to drink a lot of water and use the litter box frequently so it was off to the vets. They did blood work and also a UA she had a UTI which we treated with Marbofloxacin for 14 days.

She was started on Lantus 2 units 2 times a day (every 12 hours) but after reading and studying I started at 1 unit every 12 hours. That got bumped up to 2 units every 12 hours. We are now at 3.5 and I am wondering if we skipped over that sweet spot? I discontinued dry cat food they already ate Fancy Feast canned but all those were mostly higher in carbs and now both my cats are on FF Pates but I am worried about the phosphorus levels. I have tried other canned foods but they have a slimy texture neither cat likes. I have tried mixing the 2 and neither cat wants nothing to do with those either. They will sometimes eat Tiki Cat or another brand that looks like a raw diet but not all the time. They love the pates.

After the bump to 3.5 units every 12 hours and no drop in numbers I was wondering if she had another UTI so I took her to the ER vet after doing a home test. They did a UA and an ultrasound everything was good. Her kidney readings are a little off and they are going to recheck in 3 months.

She eats well and still drinks a lot of water (nowhere near what she did before insulin) she has markers for IBS but so far so good!

I couldn’t ask for a better cat, she is fine with testing and injections and knows it is part of the routine from day one. She amazes me!

I am uploading her spreadsheet and know I could be better at record keeping for notes but most of that is in my head. She gets 3 meals a day and 2 small snacks if she asks for them.

I just don’t understand why we continue to go up on Lantus without the drop in numbers.

If I am missing information let me know, I'm new at this, I'm sure I've left things out. Thanks in advance! I've been reading as much as I can and trying to understand it all. I'm also on the Facebook page too.
 
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As for wet food for cat that are diabetic and who have kidney disease you can try these
You can check these out from Weruva BFF like

One of our members put it together
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%

weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com
Will also give the protein and fat %
 
Sometimes it takes a while for the cat's Pancreas to heal and you'll see those high numbers as it does so. Even when giving higher doses of insulin. My big boy was like this. It took 5 months for his Pancreas to heal and removing even the small amounts of dry food he received. We went as high as 2.75 units twice a day last fall and still his numbers increased and just when we were going to increase units again suddenly the glucose numbers were dropping. We ended up droping his dose fairly quickly to 0.25 units twice a day, then nothing. The vet examined him and confirmed his Pancreas appeared fully functional and now he's been in full remission for the last month. As hard as it is, sometimes you just have to be really patient and keep a close eye on the numbers. I'm glad that your baby is cooperative as that will make things so much easier for you.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
To set spreadsheet sharing permission:
* At the top right of the spreadsheet screen click on Share.

* In the pop-up dialog box click on the Get Link section.

* Change link access from 'Restricted' to 'Anyone with the link' and make sure that the permission on the right hand side is set to 'Viewer'.

* Click Done to save the changes.

As for wet food for cat that are diabetic and who have kidney disease you can try these
You can check these out from Weruva BFF like

One of our members put it together
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%

weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com
Will also give the protein and fat %
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the instructions. Hopefully it is available to view now.
I have burned through so many cat foods I'm sure it happens a lot. I know locally the BFF foods are limited locally, I'll have to drive to the next town down. Both my kitties won't touch beef, I've tried it on it's on and mixed. I'll have to make a run to the pet store.
I'd like them to switch to food that looks like food since I eat clean I'd like them too also.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you are no longer feeding the Dr Elsey's cat food you can remove it from your signature.
Just tap on your name up top , tap on signature and remove it then tap save
Click to expand...

I still have them on it fairly new addition they get 1/3rd of a cup between the both of them. Both of my cats were kibble fed Royal Canin for years. My sugar kitty, Allie I actually noticed she mainly started backing off the dry thought the food may have been a bad batch? I think she realized that she didn't feel right when she ate it? Those 3 bags of that are going to the local shelter. The company did refund me and said I could donate it.
 
Heather & Bandit said:
Sometimes it takes a while for the cat's Pancreas to heal and you'll see those high numbers as it does so. Even when giving higher doses of insulin. My big boy was like this. It took 5 months for his Pancreas to heal and removing even the small amounts of dry food he received. We went as high as 2.75 units twice a day last fall and still his numbers increased and just when we were going to increase units again suddenly the glucose numbers were dropping. We ended up droping his dose fairly quickly to 0.25 units twice a day, then nothing. The vet examined him and confirmed his Pancreas appeared fully functional and now he's been in full remission for the last month. As hard as it is, sometimes you just have to be really patient and keep a close eye on the numbers. I'm glad that your baby is cooperative as that will make things so much easier for you.
Click to expand...

I did not realize it took that long. I'm glad your boy healed and hope he stays the course, I'm just afraid her being in the 300's is a strain on her kidneys. She does drink so I know she is hydrated. Think we will stay at this number for another week at least and I am going to set my alarm and start testing at night since they don't get food for about 10 hours 10PM-8AM. Another reason I put out the dry. I've seen some leave frozen canned out during the day or night.
She is really a trooper about testing in the beginning when we did the hokey pokey she would lay down for me like lets get this done already! All these years rubbing her ears taught her patience? She doesn't even second guess when she sees the syringe.
I have her blood work and the results from the UA's that were done that I need to add to my spreadsheet. It is a work in progress. In 10 days it will be 2 months since her diagnosis.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
You increased directly from 1 to 2 units. You had generally lower BG at the lower dose. Maybe 2 units is too much.
Click to expand...

That is why I was wondering if I missed the sweet spot! That was the vets advice. That is the tricky question do I go back down or continue? After researching here I told my vet that I was switching to the syringes with the half unit marks and do not want to increase by a whole unit at one time. That's also why I took her to the ER vet after upping the dose I thought her UTI returned but they did an ultrasound and a UA and everything was good!! My vet was like just bring her in and drop her off and we will get to her. I wanted an appointment and they said it would be 2 weeks.
I miss my vet of 30 years...I relocated and they are an hour and a half away.
 
Breelynne said:
My cat Allie was diagnosed on 01/26/2022 she is 12 years old. At first I thought it was her thyroid but she was starting to drink a lot of water and use the litter box frequently so it was off to the vets. They did blood work and also a UA she had a UTI which we treated with Marbofloxacin for 14 days.

She was started on Lantus 2 units 2 times a day (every 12 hours) but after reading and studying I started at 1 unit every 12 hours. That got bumped up to 2 units every 12 hours. We are now at 3.5 and I am wondering if we skipped over that sweet spot? I discontinued dry cat food they already ate Fancy Feast canned but all those were mostly higher in carbs and now both my cats are on FF Pates but I am worried about the phosphorus levels. I have tried other canned foods but they have a slimy texture neither cat likes. I have tried mixing the 2 and neither cat wants nothing to do with those either. They will sometimes eat Tiki Cat or another brand that looks like a raw diet but not all the time. They love the pates.

After the bump to 3.5 units every 12 hours and no drop in numbers I was wondering if she had another UTI so I took her to the ER vet after doing a home test. They did a UA and an ultrasound everything was good. Her kidney readings are a little off and they are going to recheck in 3 months.

She eats well and still drinks a lot of water (nowhere near what she did before insulin) she has markers for IBS but so far so good!

I couldn’t ask for a better cat, she is fine with testing and injections and knows it is part of the routine from day one. She amazes me!

I am uploading her spreadsheet and know I could be better at record keeping for notes but most of that is in my head. She gets 3 meals a day and 2 small snacks if she asks for them.

I just don’t understand why we continue to go up on Lantus without the drop in numbers.

If I am missing information let me know, I'm new at this, I'm sure I've left things out. Thanks in advance! I've been reading as much as I can and trying to understand it all. I'm also on the Facebook page too.
Click to expand...
Ladies can you please read her post #10 also
I'm going to tag a few experienced members for you to take a look at your SSand see what they tell you what dose to stay at
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@Suzanne & Darcy

Labs are entered on her SS
 
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@Breelynne
You might want to read the 2 dosing methods for lantus.
If feeding any dry food at all you would have to follow the SLGS method.
Please add it to your signature and spreadsheet up top

Please read all the yellow stickys bout Lantus
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
About the units, lantus is based on how low the kitty drops ( nadir) We don't base the number of units based on the AMPS or PMPS ,good you are using a human meter because that's what our numbers are based on
You definitely could have missed the correct dose , we increase and decrease by 0.25 units at a time . You definitely need to get some tests in after her PMPS test
Edit, listen to Bron ,when she said she doesn't think you have gone past the best dose
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Breelynne
You might want to read the 2 dosing methods for lantus.
If feeding any dry food at all you would have to follow the SLGS method.
Please add it to your signature and spreadsheet up top

Please read all the yellow stickys bout Lantus
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
About the units, lantus is based on how low the kitty drops ( nadir) We don't base the number of units based on the AMPS or PMPS ,good you are using a human meter because that's what our numbers are based on
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tag! Much appreciated.
I just started them back on dry a fraction of what they were used to but a new food. My other cat was more of a dry food freak than my Allie. I am lucky I have a lot of time to spend at home as I am caregiver and also do house sitting and used to take care of birds, that is going to be no more my energies are now focused close to home.
Figured I should be using the SLGS method. I will add it when I update her numbers. I'm up late tonight to get a reading on her later tonight.

I gave her my meter and bought myself a new one is that OK or should she have a new one also? I have no knowledge of insulin but I use pills to regulate mine. The meters are only 20 bucks I'm this far in another 20 is no biggie.
Got a lot of reading to do and have been in a whirlwind. I'm planning on staying home tomorrow.
 
Here is the post you also have on the lantus forum. I have answered you on the lantus forum thread.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-here-looking-to-perfect-the-spreadsheet.275356/

As you can see the grain free food has a lot of things that increase the carb amount of the food such as peas, potato starch, carrots, tapioca starch. . I would look for other foods such as the Weruva low phosphorus cans I mentioned on the other thread. That may help reduce the BGs but do monitor closely in case the BG drops quite a bit, which is possible when you lower the carb content of the food.
Once we can see some more testing in the PM cycle (which I also mentioned on the other thread, we will have more of an idea what is happening.
I cant see any evidence that you have gone past the best dose when looking at the SS. Once we see some pm cycle tests it will be clearer.
I just think you haven't reached the best dose yet.
I'm glad you are switching to syringes and smaller increments when increasing.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Here is the post you also have on the lantus forum. I have answered you on the lantus forum thread.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-here-looking-to-perfect-the-spreadsheet.275356/

As you can see the grain free food has a lot of things that increase the carb amount of the food such as peas, potato starch, carrots, tapioca starch. . I would look for other foods such as the Weruva low phosphorus cans I mentioned on the other thread. That may help reduce the BGs but do monitor closely in case the BG drops quite a bit, which is possible when you lower the carb content of the food.
Once we can see some more testing in the PM cycle (which I also mentioned on the other thread, we will have more of an idea what is happening.
I cant see any evidence that you have gone past the best dose when looking at the SS. Once we see some pm cycle tests it will be clearer.
I just think you haven't reached the best dose yet.
I'm glad you are switching to syringes and smaller increments when increasing.
Click to expand...

I spend more time in the store reading the labels on their foods than mine. I check the first 6 ingredients and also use the food chart as I am shopping I pick up a can look for it on the chart and I try to stay below 5 maybe 6 carbs at the very most, even those I shy away from.
Saw your thread on the Weruva foods I'll have to travel for those no problem, just don't want to commit to a large order to have them turn their noses up at them. I have a case of FF Medleys I bought a few months ago but it is HIGH in carbs so that is going to the no kill shelter here for donation along with the Royal Canin they were on.

Thanks again and I will update everything tomorrow!
 
Breelynne said:
I gave her my meter and bought myself a new one is that OK or should she have a new one also? I have no knowledge of insulin but I use pills to regulate mine. The meters are only 20 bucks I'm this far in another 20 is no biggie.
Got a lot of reading to do and have been in a whirlwind. I'm planning on staying home tomorrow.
Click to expand...
As long as the Contour Next one is working fine no need to buy another meter for Allie
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would keep some of those for your hypo kit. Mark the number of carbs on the top of the can.
Click to expand...

Another great tip, thanks! I have a hypo kit ready to go. Karo syrup, batteries an extra meter (bought a Relion with strips). I marked the high carb cans in magic marker and how many carbs per the Food Chart. I joined here and been researching for a few weeks but figured I'd finally introduce myself and ask questions. Everyone here has been so helpful. I'm in the Facebook group too.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
As long as the Contour Next one is working fine no need to buy another meter for Allie
Click to expand...

Meter is working fine and I have plenty of strips. Bought a Relion in the beginning to compare numbers and it wasn't that much of a difference really, figured if they use a Libre on a cat a human meter would be good. I keep the Relion in the hypo kit too and use it every now and then to compare numbers using the same drop of blood.
 
There can be large differences between a Relion and Libre. Here is data I compiled from Libre I attached to mt Merle in Feb. There were large differences at the beginning but they became smaller as time progressed.
Merle Feb 2023 BG Comparison.png
 

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Breelynne said:
Very interesting results. Which one do you think was more accurate?
Click to expand...
It's better to stick with one meter , so if you are going to stay with the relion can you please add that to your signature and delete the contour meter.
I have always used the Relion meters and had no problems with it ,plus the strips are 17.88 for 100 strips, Did you buy the Relion Premier Classic?
@Breelynne
You can even use these for your hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
Good idea to mark the cans with how many carbs there are
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
It's better to stick with one meter , so if you are going to stay with the relion can you please add that to your signature and delete the contour meter.
I have always used the Relion meters and had no problems with it ,plus the strips are 17.88 for 100 strips, Did you buy the Relion Premier Classic?
@Breelynne
You can even use these for your hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
Good idea to mark the cans with how many carbs there are
Click to expand...

Oh I am sticking with the Contour Meter, I currently use the new one I just bought since she took my old Contour meter tied to the app, helps me when I can't log numbers right away. The Relion (Premier Classic) is only in case of emergency if for some reason the other breaks. I also got strips as a backup.

Ah, the gravy lovers have a few of those up there marked as well. Another thing is I will have to find someone who can come in if needed if there is an emergency for me or my Mom, that way I can show them everything but they should know what a Hypo Kit is! That is the next call beginning of the week is to her vet to see if they have a recommendations on a tech or someone else that could come out if needed. That concerns me.
Thanks!!! Everyone is so helpful! I'm well over a month in and just trying to learn all I can.
 
Breelynne said:
Oh I am sticking with the Contour Meter, I currently use the new one I just bought since she took my old Contour meter tied to the app, helps me when I can't log numbers right away. The Relion (Premier Classic) is only in case of emergency if for some reason the other breaks. I also got strips as a backup.

Ah, the gravy lovers have a few of those up there marked as well. Another thing is I will have to find someone who can come in if needed if there is an emergency for me or my Mom, that way I can show them everything but they should know what a Hypo Kit is! That is the next call beginning of the week is to her vet to see if they have a recommendations on a tech or someone else that could come out if needed. That concerns me.
Thanks!!! Everyone is so helpful! I'm well over a month in and just trying to learn all I can.
Click to expand...
That's fine to stay with the Contour meter.
Just keep asking questions
On your SS did you get tests in for 3-16 and 3-17?
Allie's pic is so adorable what a cutie pie she is
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
That's fine to stay with the Contour meter.
Just keep asking questions
On your SS did you get tests in for 3-16 and 3-17?
Allie's pic is so adorable what a cutie pie she is
Click to expand...

Well I have the numbers in the meter have to put them in. Been trying to get a hold of human doctors for a day and a half! Very upsetting.

I love her to pieces! Thanks so much, she has cattitude but is so patient for her testing and shots. Hard to believe. I keep saying I need to get video of both. I am blessed that she is accepting this is her way of life now. I tried to show her that I take my blood sugars and she is like ...yeah whatever.

I was looking at your cuties numbers he does great! My Mom had a Tyler cat :) I like how you add the new pen and other additions. I just started a new pen the old one expires on the 31st of this month.
I am so lacking in notes.
Can cats drink to much water with diabetes do you know?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Let your kitty drink all she needs. Always make sure she has plenty of water available.
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Let your kitty drink all she needs. Always make sure she has plenty of water available.
Click to expand...

Thanks :) for all your answers!
She has a stainless steel water bowl with the rubber coated bottom but she still scoots it and gets it everywhere! She uses her paw a lot and licks it off, she used to drink out of the sink but here the sink in the bathroom has different levels so she can't do that anymore. she also has a fountain. She has a thing for moving water. If it is warm out I add 1 ice cube to the bowl and she loves to play with it. I need a video.
Was hoping it was ok, a good way to lower blood sugar too. Work in human diabetics.
 
Breelynne said:
I was looking at your cuties numbers he does great! My Mom had a Tyler cat :) I like how you add the new pen and other additions
Click to expand...
Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 knock on wood. He did have a brother named Perry but he passed 2 years ago due to kidney failure.
Oh do I miss him so he was my heart kitty
I actually named them after my favorite rock band Aerosmith
Steven Tyler and Joe Perry :p
Going over to your post on the lantus forum
@Breelynne
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 knock on wood. He did have a brother named Perry but he passed 2 years ago due to kidney failure.
Oh do I miss him so he was my heart kitty
I actually named them after my favorite rock band Aerosmith
Steven Tyler and Joe Perry :p
Going over to your post on the lantus forum
@Breelynne
Click to expand...

Good for you and good for Tyler! Job well done! Patience and love!

Sorry for your loss, I know you did your best and that is all we can do. <3

Love the inspiration for their names. Rock on! :)
 
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