Kidney disease. Please help.

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Teasha

Member Since 2015
My kitty Bow is in remission from diabetes if that matters at all. We've been to the vet regularly for the last year because he also has thyroid issues so he's on meds for that. Now he has kidney disease. He has been switched to canin renal. I've been giving him fluids. We've been having trouble getting him to eat. This last week we just switched him to a recovery food to see if he'd eat that better. He's also got a phosphorus binder I put in his food. He's on meds for nausea and to encourage him to eat. Which seemed to help for a bit but now he's picking at his food. He started sneezing and seems a bit stuffy today so put him in the bathroom with a dehumidifier. I'm picking something up that's suppose to make him want to drink more but they had to order it. The vet said pretty much if I understood it right it is going to depend on if his kidneys will start getting rid of those toxins. I offer him food as often as I can, I've warmed it up. I've tried canned chicken, canned tuna, extra water in his food. He does seem interested in our food but i don't give it to him because i don't want him to be sicker. I realize there might be nothing that can be done but I'm really hoping for more time with him. Any suggestions?
 
Also I was just reading that giving too many fluids can cause a lot of problems in cats. The tech told me to give 300 ml per day and the article said max 100-150! Is that why he's sneezing and has a kinda stuffy nose? I really need advice.
 
Hi Teesha and Bow,
Teasha said:
He has been switched to canin renal
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If Bow is in remission, the renal food will be too high in carbs and will throw him out of remission. Have they said what stage of the kidney disease he is in. Unless it is late stage, cats don’t need the renal food. They need a low phosphorus, high carb wet food which is also suitable for diabetic cats. Weruva has a new line of low phosphorus wet foods for cats with kidney issues. Check out their website.
The recovery food is Ok for a short time as is 13% carbs. It’s important Bow eats.
Im glad you have an anti nausea medication for Bow..if he is nausea he is going to need the anti nausea meds daily so he can eat.
I’m also very glad to hear he is eating better now.

Teasha said:
The tech told me to give 300 ml per day and the article said max 100-150! Is that why he's sneezing and has a kinda stuffy nose? I really need advice.
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Please do not give 300 mls subQ fluids a day. That is far too much!
I would give 100 mls a day and see how that goes.

Here is a link to stimulating kitty’s appetite

Have you looked at the website of Tanya’s comprehensive guide to CRD

I’m going to tag @Suzanne & Darcy about the kidney disease issues.
 
Teasha said:
Also I was just reading that giving too many fluids can cause a lot of problems in cats. The tech told me to give 300 ml per day and the article said max 100-150! Is that why he's sneezing and has a kinda stuffy nose? I really need advice.
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No no no. Do NOT give 300 mL per day. That's too much. How much does your cat weigh? Are there any heart problems? Have they even checked for heart problems. Your cat could end up with a pleural effusion.

What meds are you giving. Sound like you need Cerenia, Ondansetron, Mirataz (only started after the anti nausea meds are on Board.) Do you have bloodwork you can post here?
 
Oh, as far as the renal food, you can pick a food that is low in phosphorus and/or use the Aluminum Hydroxide powder at EVERY mea. (all food and treats.) Also you can use Niacinamide to help bring down phosphorus. What was the phosporus number?
 
Regarding overhydration, here's the info from felinecrf.org. I can't recommend that site more highly. Nor can I recommend the support group more highly!
Overhydration and Fluid Retention

It is possible for cats to be overhydrated, i.e. given too much fluid, either via IV or sub-Qs. Some vets say it is not possible to overhydrate a cat using sub-Qs, but believe me, I've heard of plenty. Overhydration may also cause hypertension.

Cats with heart problems can also develop problems with body fluid build up. If your cat is receiving sub-Qs and has undiagnosed heart problems, it may be that the amount of fluid you are giving, that would be fine for most cats, is too much for your cat. It is also possible for cats with heart disease to develop fluid retention even if they are not receiving sub-Qs.

Fluid may collect:
    • in the lungs (pulmonary oedema)
    • around the lungs (pleural effusion)
    • in the abdomen (ascites).
If your cat:
  • feels "squishy" when you stroke him or her
  • has loss of appetite (which may be caused by the fluid pressing on the stomach causing a feeling of fullness)
  • appears to be gaining weight rapidly or suddenly. Most people are delighted when their CKD cat gains weight, and certainly if weight gain is slow and steady, this is good news. However, if your cat gains weight very quickly (I have heard of people who are delighted because their cat has gained 2 lbs in a week, a phenomenal rate of weight gain as a percentage of the average cat's size), this may be a sign of fluid build up.
  • starts coughing and/or develops a nasal discharge
you need to see a vet quickly.

If your cat starts breathing with the mouth open or develops a limp with the affected leg cold to the touch, your cat may be in severe congestive heart failure or may have an arterial thromboembolism. These are medical emergencies and you need to get to a vet as quickly as possible.

Do not give sub-Qs to a cat exhibiting any of the above symptoms until you have spoken to your vet. You should also never give a cat sub-Qs until the fluids from the previous session have been absorbed.

The Heart Problems page has more information about fluid build up and congestive heart failure, including symptoms, causes, what happens, and how to treat.



If your cat does exhibit these problems and you can afford it, I would recommend a visit to a feline cardiologist to discuss future treatment options for your cat. It may still be possible to give sub-Qs in the future if your cat needs them, but it is a careful balancing act between the needs of the kidneys and the needs of the heart.



If the problem was caused by giving too much fluid, you may find that reducing the amount or frequency of sub-Qs given in the future prevents this problem arising again; so speak to your vet about this. The Subcutaneous Fluids page has information on amounts and frequency of fluids.
 
As for wet food for cat that are diabetic and who have kidney disease you can try these
You can check these out from Weruva BFF like
One of our members put it together
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%

weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com
Will also give the protein and fat %


For diabetic cats and cats that have elevated kidney values
You want to feed low phosphorous wet food

When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pics of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS
 
Hi and welcome, do not give him that huge amount of subq's the right amount should be given according with his weight and renal is not a good food for a diabetic cat because it is way to high in carbs, and it is usually not really necessary to give a cat renal unless he is in the last stages of CKD, you need to give him low carb low phosphorus food, the weruba they've suggested are a very good option, but you can also look at Dr Lisa's list and look for food under 10% carbs and under 250 in phosphorus (better if it can be under 200).

Do you know what CKD (chronic kidney desease) stage he is? What is his phosphorus level? What is his creatinine level? Does he have a heart condition? could you post his labs ? What is his thyroid problem is he hyper or hipo? Are you home testing him to make sure his diabetes is still under control ? because sometimes getting sick can get a cat out of remission and is better to monitor him.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Have you used Niacinamide on diabetic cats? How have they responded? Sorry if I'm getting a bit out of topic but I would really like to know
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It’s not really off topic since it is related to kidney disease. I have used Niacinamide in my cats to help reduce phosphorus levels. It did help. It binds with the phosphorus in the blood stream. There is quite a bit of information about it on the felinecrf.org site.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It’s not really off topic since it is related to kidney disease. I have used Niacinamide in my cats to help reduce phosphorus levels. It did help. It binds with the phosphorus in the blood stream. There is quite a bit of information about it on the felinecrf.org site.
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Yes I've seen it but it does cautions that it may raise blood glucose levels which could be problematic with Babu, that's why I'm asking it would be great for us to use it since we don't have access to Aluminum Hydroxide we are currently using Renvela ( sevelamer carbonate) but it does have some issues and is not easy to get either
 
This is a lot of information. THANK YOU!!! I don't know what stage, didn't realize there were stages until researching the last few days. I don't have a copy of his recent tests except his last thyroid which I think was low because of his recent vomiting. He was on the low side, his symptoms were he was losing weight. Idk form that is. His blood glucose was checked. He seen some glucose in there so had me start him on insulin but he got his other testing back a few days later and said he was still in remission which confuses me. I'll test him again tho.He's on elura, cerenia and aventis kidney complete.

How long do you think I can feed this food? I thought I read somewhere that one day of having too many carbs could throw him out of remission. I have 7 recovery and 12 renal cans left. I'm hope I answered all your questions and I'm going to look into this new food right away. Thank you again!
 
Teasha said:
I don't have a copy of his recent tests except his last thyroid which I think was low
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What was his thyroid test result? If he has a lower than normal numbers in his thyroid results that would mean he has hypothyroidism and he needs meds there is no other way to treat that and leaving it untreated could be dangerous, vomiting is only the start but for the same reason you need to be sure he needs the med before giving it.

Teasha said:
having too many carbs could throw him out of remission.
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Yes if he's on remission which I'm not very sure, actually without any labs or home tests for blood glucose is not possible to determine if he's diabetic much less if he is on remission , eating food that is high in carbs is stressing his pancreas and could get him out of remission quite easily so you need to get him into a low carb food as soon as possible. Also you could start hometesting his blood glucose to make sure his ok

If the vet is not sure about him having thyroid problems ( it's quite easy with the right test) and is not sure about his diabetes either I do suggest you ask for full copies of all his tests and search for a second opinion.


Regarding the recovery cans as good as it is for emergencies, that is what it is intended for even the manufacturer recommends it only for short periods but it usually has a very long expiration date so you could just save the cans and use them some other time when he's not feeling well those are always useful to have around and the renal if at all posible I would suggest you do not keep giving them to him and switch to the low carb low phosphorus if at all possible
 
Well, we can’t know if he is in remission unless you are either doing home testing of her blood glucose where you can see what it is during the course of the day. You really need to call up the vet and ask them to either let you pick up or email you the lab results from her tests. I would like to know if they did a fructosamine test which would tell us an average of her blood glucose levels over a period of a couple of weeks. That is how we should be able to determine whether or not she is actually in remission at this point or not.
 
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