I am new here, and I need your opinions and guidance

Status
Not open for further replies.
Gudrun & Tobias

Gudrun & Tobias

Member Since 2022
Hi,

First off all, I'm so glad I found this forum. I was totally lost when Tobias was diagnosed with diabetes. And just beeing a member here, and have access to all this important information, has made my life much easier after the diagnosis. and Tobias's life a lot safer. Thank you!

My kitty, Tobias, 14 years old, was diagnosed in December -22. All bloodwork was good, exept from high bg, and a lot of ketones. He had the usual symptoms, a lot of peeing, and a lot of drinking. He had also lost weight, approximately 2.20 lbs.

He is on Prozink, currently 3ie twice a day. He started with 2ie twice a day when diagnosed 12/12-22
Luckily he has an appetite of a horse, and the ketones disappeared within the first days with insulin. No ketones since. He mostly eats raw food, but also some lc pate. And he loves his freeze dried chicken as snacks. Due to the vet, he should only eat twice a day, but I took the advice from this forum, and feed him small meals when hungry. And this leads to the first of my questions. Are the numbers in the bg curves influenced by food? I've fed him all day, every day.. Exept for the 2 hours before shot time. (07:00 am/ pm)
He is often crying for food. But he has put on some weight, about 0,45 lbs, so I guess I can not free feed him. His weight is now 11.68 lbs, and he is regular size.

I need you to take a look at Tobias spreadsheat. He has been bouncing all the way, and the numbers are all over. And the pre shot numbers are horrible. With the new knowledge from this forum, I am not sure if increasing his dose was the right thing to do. to 2.50ie x2 1/6 -23, and to 3ie x2 1/28? The vet told me to increase the dose based on the spreadsheet. Will the numbers gradually even out when his body are used to lower bg numbers, or is the insulin dose all wrong?


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ImsmXELqSt2QtPSQuJXeVAVUoGqQJ_07Rf5kjdf3Pio/edit?usp=sharing
 
Gudrun & Tobias said:
Due to the vet, he should only eat twice a day, but I took the advice from this forum, and feed him small meals when hungry. And this leads to the first of my questions. Are the numbers in the bg curves influenced by food? I've fed him all day, every day.. Exept for the 2 hours before shot time. (07:00 am/ pm)
Click to expand...
It seems to be best to feed small meals throughout the day except no food 2 hrs before shot. Yes fod does effect BG so what one wants to do is feed consistently day to day. That means the same amount of food at each mini mean (and main meal) at the same time each day. If he does not eat it all then adjust amount of food as necessary but just be consistent day to day. As BG get lower overall you may have to decrease the amount of food fed daily to get/maintain his desired weight. Do you think 11 ½ is his good weight? If you want to gain then feed amount like you are now since you said he is gaining weight.

The BG may be all over doe to inconsistent amount of food fed. From your SS it may be that 3 units is too much.

Personally I have not have good experience with Prozinc. I could not get a relatively low, flat curve. I prefer glargine which Lantus is on brand name.
 
Welcome you need to add the US tab to your spreadsheet so we don't have to figure out the BG using the World one we have to take the World # and multiply it by 18 for us to get the US BG number
Here are the instructions, if you have trouble I can tag Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom to help you.
We adjust the dose based on how low the kitty is dropping ,not the AMPS or PMPS numbers.Have you read the dosing methods for Prozinc
I'll give you the link, if you are going to follow SLGS anytime Tobias drops under 90 you would decrease the dose by 0.25 units

I'm going to tag Suzanne who is familiar with Prozinc

Dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

@Suzanne & Darcy

Instructions for the spreadsheet using world
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

I would also add to your signature that she had ketones when diagnosed Dec 2022
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Welcome you need to add the US tab to your spreadsheet so we don't have to figure out the BG using the World one we have to take the World # and multiply it by 18 for us to get the US BG number
Here are the instructions, if you have trouble I can tag Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom to help you.
Click to expand...
@Gudrun & Tobias welcome to FDMB! :-)

I have sent you a request for edit access to your SS. It will come to the gmail account associated with the SS. Check the spam folder as well since it sometimes goes straight there! :-)
 
Yes, food influences the bg but the only time that matters is before the preshots, which is what we say not to feed at least 2 hours prior to the am and pm preshots. The rest of the time it’s okay and it does not mess up your curve results since most cats get fed throughout the day :cat:

with a history of ketones, it’s important that Tobias eats well so that’s the 1st priority
 
I have read all about the Prozink. And I did decrease the insulin dose by 0.25 when I read that it was the right thing to do when he dropped. But his numbers went higher, and I contacted the vet. She told me to increase the dose, not decrease....So I did.

I've added the US tab to my spreadsheat.
 
It could be that he was bouncing and you have to give a dose time to work. At least 6 cycles. Your vet is telling you to go higher because he’s dosing by the preshot numbers and here we dose by how low a cat goes in order to keep them safe from a hypo, which when you think about, is what makes the most sense. No vets I have ever encountered do this so I stopped listening to them and took over dosing Minnie. I would go to them for everything else except her diabetes and when they would ask about it or try to give me dosing instructions, I would politely say yes, I got that down thank you, let’s focus on her other issues.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
@Gudrun & Tobias welcome to FDMB! :)

I have sent you a request for edit access to your SS. It will come to the gmail account associated with the SS. Check the spam folder as well since it sometimes goes straight there! :)
Click to expand...

Thank you :)

I have' been searching for your request, but I can't find it anywhere. The mails from FDMB comes to my gmail, but not the request. I think the request might has been sendt to my old mail, and I do not have access to it. I will try to figure it out as soon as possible.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
It seems to be best to feed small meals throughout the day except no food 2 hrs before shot. Yes fod does effect BG so what one wants to do is feed consistently day to day. That means the same amount of food at each mini mean (and main meal) at the same time each day. If he does not eat it all then adjust amount of food as necessary but just be consistent day to day. As BG get lower overall you may have to decrease the amount of food fed daily to get/maintain his desired weight. Do you think 11 ½ is his good weight? If you want to gain then feed amount like you are now since you said he is gaining weight.

The BG may be all over doe to inconsistent amount of food fed. From your SS it may be that 3 units is too much.

Personally I have not have good experience with Prozinc. I could not get a relatively low, flat curve. I prefer glargine which Lantus is on brand name.
Click to expand...

I suspected that I was feeding him too often, and too much. From today, the food will be regulated with the same amount at the same time. :)

If it doesn't help to flatten the curve, then it has to be the dose, or the Prozink itself.
 
Would you mind putting ‘ketones at diagnosis’ into the signature please. It’s important we know this. I would continue to feed the two main meals before the insulin doses and then 2 or 3 snacks during all the cycles. Until he is regulated he will be hungry because his body can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food at the moment.

If you we following SLGS Dosing method with the Prozinc, you need to reduce the dose if the BG drops under 90.
I don’t think you have been giving insulin long enough to to the Modified Doing method (MDM) yet.
I can see several places where you have not reduced when you needed to. I will link the SLGS method below so you can see it to follow

Tobias is bouncing and that is why you are seeing a lot of the red BGs. Bouncing is normal in newly diagnosed cats.
I would try and get some more tests in during the Pm cycles as cats often drop lower at night and we want to catch those drops. If he is dropping too fast, give him a snack of low carb food to slow the drop.
From the Basics
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

PROZINC BASICS

PROZINC DOSING METHODS. Look for the SLGS dosing methods.
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
It could be that he was bouncing and you have to give a dose time to work. At least 6 cycles. Your vet is telling you to go higher because he’s dosing by the preshot numbers and here we dose by how low a cat goes in order to keep them safe from a hypo, which when you think about, is what makes the most sense. No vets I have ever encountered do this so I stopped listening to them and took over dosing Minnie. I would go to them for everything else except her diabetes and when they would ask about it or try to give me dosing instructions, I would politely say yes, I got that down thank you, let’s focus on her other issues.
Click to expand...

Our vet is really nice, but I don't think that she has a lot of experience with diabetic cats. I'm am not sure there's a lot of diabetic cats in Norway at all. I am sorry to say, but it seems like euthanasia is the most common answer to feline diabetes here. Cat's do not have the same status as dogs here, and it's just very sad.

I decreased the dose at one time, but I got unsure when the bg numbers rised. And then the vet told me to increase, not to decrease. And I did so. From now on, I will take all the advice from FDMB :)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Would you mind putting ‘ketones at diagnosis’ into the signature please. It’s important we know this. I would continue to feed the two main meals before the insulin doses and then 2 or 3 snacks during all the cycles. Until he is regulated he will be hungry because his body can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food at the moment.

If you we following SLGS Dosing method with the Prozinc, you need to reduce the dose if the BG drops under 90.
I don’t think you have been giving insulin long enough to to the Modified Doing method (MDM) yet.
I can see several places where you have not reduced when you needed to. I will link the SLGS method below so you can see it to follow

Tobias is bouncing and that is why you are seeing a lot of the red BGs. Bouncing is normal in newly diagnosed cats.
I would try and get some more tests in during the Pm cycles as cats often drop lower at night and we want to catch those drops. If he is dropping too fast, give him a snack of low carb food to slow the drop.
From the Basics
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

PROZINC BASICS

PROZINC DOSING METHODS. Look for the SLGS dosing methods.
Click to expand...

I've added "ketones at diagnoses" to the signature :)

As I was reading and learning from FDMB, I saw it myself, that I should have reduced the dose at the first time for nearly a month ago!
But I was not aware of the SLGS method at the time. And I was, and I am, afraid of doing something that can harm Tobias. Later, when he dropped, I redused his dose by 0.25. But as his numbers rised again, I got nervous, and the vet told me to increase the dose...after studying the ss.

Next time he drops, I will follow your advice, and reduse the dose.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
He has had a 50 and a 72 when on3 units in the last several days. Please reduce the dose at the next Preshot to be safe.
Remember it is not the Preshot BG that decides the dose but the nadir ( lowest point in the cycle)
Click to expand...

Ok :) I will reduce to 2.75 this evening. Or should I reduce to 2.50?
I really appreciate the advice! I thought I had to wait reducing until he drops again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top