Newly Diagnosed also w/DKA, Pancreatitis and UTI - Day 3

[Emily and Baby]

Day 1
Day 2

Good morning,

So Baby is doing better day by day! Today she was interested in the food she was eating prior to her diagnosis, which is great! Her AM PS was 347. She had about 1/4 portion of Friskies Pate (4%) and about 8 temptations just before I gave her 1 unit of Levemir.

The vet sent home cerenia to start today so I gave that this morning about an hour PS. She's much more herself, more responsive and doesn't appear to be as clumsy as she was previously.

I will test again at +2 unless suggested otherwise.

Things are looking up at the moment!! So grateful for all the support here.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Testing at +2 is a good plan. You may want to give her a few "snacks" throughout the early part of the cycle.

 

[Emily and Baby]

Testing at +2 is a good plan. You may want to give her a few "snacks" throughout the early part of the cycle.

Ok will do!

Do I l continue to let her 'snack' on HC and LC? She had about 1/8 of a portion of LC (4%) food and drank water on her own (YAY!)

 

[Emily and Baby]

297 @ +2; test again at +4?

 

[Melinda and Kitkat]

Hi Emily and Baby (she is adorable ) A wave from Calgary
Just looking through your thread from yesterday about foods. I am compiling a list right now and will post the ones I use shortly. Great to hear she's eating again!

 

[Emily and Baby]

Hi Emily and Baby (she is adorable ) A wave from Calgary
Just looking through your thread from yesterday about foods. I am compiling a list right now and will post the ones I use shortly. Great to hear she's eating again!

Hi Melinda and Kitkat! A wave back from Ontario!

Thank you so much, that's very helpful!!

 

[Emily and Baby]

Good afternoon! Just wondering if I need to test sooner than +6 as Baby's BGs are slowly going down still at +4: PS - 347; +2 - 297 and +4 - 259.
Thanks!

 

[Melinda and Kitkat]

Hi again, I can understand with 5 cats that budget is likely a top priority! Considering this, my personal recommendation would be the Friskies Pate varieties.
It's hard to beat Walmart prices, Walmart carries:
$10.77 12 pk "Chicken&Seafood Combo- Pates Chicken dinner (4%) Salmon dinner (3%) Ocean whitefish&tuna (4%)
$21.47 24 pk "Ocean Delights Combo- Pates Ocean Whitefish&tuna, Salmon dinner and Seafood supreme ( ~ 4% based on GA values?)
$28.47 32 pk "Greatest Hits Combo - Pates Salmon dinner, Turkey and Giblets (5%), Chef's dinner (~ 4% based on GA values?)
all are 156g /5.5 oz cans
I also feed the Fancy Feast pates, shredded, grilled and Feast varieties ( listed in the Fixnation foodchart as "Classics", the word Classic does not appear on canadian labels) avoid anything with gravy in the name (a few are in gravy, such as the shredded chicken in gravy but is not part of the gravy lover's variety) and are about $1.00/can 85g/3.5 oz. I have seen sale prices at Petland on a regular basis of 12 cans for $9.60- $10.50, and Walmart is ~$0.90 a can and has some 12 pk boxes.
Many of the others are not so budget-wise,,, but this may give you a starting point?
For treats, I use the one ingredient freeze dried treats. "Purebites" brand Chicken (Petland) and Orijen freezedried (also Petland) and I buy the dog-sized bag (works out cheaper than the smaller 'cat-sized' bags) as recommended by Red & Rover (ontario too).

Not to freak you out or anything, but I would advise caution with the Special Kitty Walmart brand wet foods, I have a link to an independent review on their products and much of the protein they use is plant based (not animal), heavy on grain-based fillers, and at $0.97 can for only 55g/~2oz it's not a good deal. In their product description for the chicken is this, which may give you pause?
Special Kitty shredded chicken treats in sauce cat treat is for supplemental feeding only. This may be fed along with a complete and balanced cat food diet. Feed 1 container per day for an average adult cat.
Here is the link: https://cats.com/special-kitty-cat-food-review

 

[Melinda and Kitkat]

For a HC, I keep on hand a few cans of Fancy Feast "Grilled Chicken Feast in gravy " (12%) and the Gravy lovers vaierty of the same (15%) since they are small and have lots of gravy for a hypo.

 

[Emily and Baby]

Hi again, I can understand with 5 cats that budget is likely a top priority! Considering this, my personal recommendation would be the Friskies Pate varieties.
It's hard to beat Walmart prices, Walmart carries:
$10.77 12 pk "Chicken&Seafood Combo- Pates Chicken dinner (4%) Salmon dinner (3%) Ocean whitefish&tuna (4%)
$21.47 24 pk "Ocean Delights Combo- Pates Ocean Whitefish&tuna, Salmon dinner and Seafood supreme ( ~ 4% based on GA values?)
$28.47 32 pk "Greatest Hits Combo - Pates Salmon dinner, Turkey and Giblets (5%), Chef's dinner (~ 4% based on GA values?)
all are 156g /5.5 oz cans
I also feed the Fancy Feast pates, shredded, grilled and Feast varieties ( listed in the Fixnation foodchart as "Classics", the word Classic does not appear on canadian labels) avoid anything with gravy in the name (a few are in gravy, such as the shredded chicken in gravy but is not part of the gravy lover's variety) and are about $1.00/can 85g/3.5 oz. I have seen sale prices at Petland on a regular basis of 12 cans for $9.60- $10.50, and Walmart is ~$0.90 a can and has some 12 pk boxes.
Many of the others are not so budget-wise,,, but this may give you a starting point?
For treats, I use the one ingredient freeze dried treats. "Purebites" brand Chicken (Petland) and Orijen freezedried (also Petland) and I buy the dog-sized bag (works out cheaper than the smaller 'cat-sized' bags) as recommended by Red & Rover (ontario too).

Not to freak you out or anything, but I would advise caution with the Special Kitty Walmart brand wet foods, I have a link to an independent review on their products and much of the protein they use is plant based (not animal), heavy on grain-based fillers, and at $0.97 can for only 55g/~2oz it's not a good deal. In their product description for the chicken is this, which may give you pause?
Special Kitty shredded chicken treats in sauce cat treat is for supplemental feeding only. This may be fed along with a complete and balanced cat food diet. Feed 1 container per day for an average adult cat.
Here is the link: https://cats.com/special-kitty-cat-food-review

That's awesome, thank you!
All 5 of my guys are on the Ocean Delights combo pack. It's all fish, which isn't great, but they don't eat the Chef's dinner, turkey or chicken dinner unfortunately. I actually get mine delivered from Amazon which is very slightly cheaper than my local Walmart and comes to my door on a subscription, so that's helpful!

I got a huge bag of freeze dried chicken, I also noticed it's cheaper to get the dog version!

I will be throwing out the Special Kitty, thank you for the heads up! Doesn't sound like it's very good at all, which is so sad they can even sell it to people :'(

Baby seems to be eating the Friskies Ocean Whitefish & Tuna today so hopefully she will continue to eat that as she had been previously. The vet tried to get me to switch to the presciption vet food and I did get a couple cans to start and as a different variety but they are around $4/can plus tax :/

Thanks again for all the info!!! I'm so glad to know that the choices I have available are good ones!!!!

 

[Emily and Baby]

For a HC, I keep on hand a few cans of Fancy Feast "Grilled Chicken Feast in gravy " (12%) and the Gravy lovers vaierty of the same (15%) since they are small and have lots of gravy for a hypo.

I will pick some of these up, thanks!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Emily, it is so good to hear Baby is doing much better. That is really good news. You are doing a really good job getting her back to good health. It will be tiring for a week or two but so worth it. You have the triple whammy of diabetes, pancreatitis and DKA to deal with.
I see you are getting some great help about the food from other Canadians I tagged..that is great!

With the bounce, it can last up to 6 cycles. But it can resolve any time before that as well. Some cats bounce for 6 cycles and others only for a couple of cycles. We are yet to see what Baby does.

Excellent Baby is showing interest in the food she ate before getting sick. I would gradually try and wean her away from the higher carb temptations now if you can and see how she goes. But be aware that the BGs could be lower with the low carb food. She might take a day or two to get back to normal low carb food! But that’s OK. The main thing is, she is eating as much as possible. Her snacks during the cycle should eventually become normal low carb foods.
Keep going with the cerenia ….don’t stop it even if she is eating quite well. She may need it for several days or longer after she’s eating well as the nausea can hang around for a bit.

I would get a +4 or +5 to see if she is still remaining in higher numbers.

 

[Melinda and Kitkat]

All 5 of my guys are on the Ocean Delights combo pack. It's all fish, which isn't great, but they don't eat the Chef's dinner, turkey or chicken dinner unfortunately

My Kitkat is a fishy cat too. I know mercury is an issue.... but not eating truly is a bigger issue. I feed Kitkat a fair amount of fish (but he also likes chicken, so I am lucky.) Just a note, the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Salmon Feast in Seared Gravy is 15%, and the Grilled Oceanwhitefish &Tuna in Gravy is 13%, if chicken is not their thing

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

The idea with "feeding the curve" is more if your kitty's numbers may be dropping the way they did yesterday. When you saw the blue numbers, giving Baby some low carb food with the hope that it will slow the drop is what you're shooting for. If it were me, I would have suggested testing at +4, given your test result at +3 and then either fed more LC or if there was still a substantial drop, adding in some HC food. Your goal is to keep Baby in normal/good BG numbers for as long as possible.

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Emily and Baby]

Hi Emily, it is so good to hear Baby is doing much better. That is really good news. You are doing a really good job getting her back to good health. It will be tiring for a week or two but so worth it. You have the triple whammy of diabetes, pancreatitis and DKA to deal with.
I see you are getting some great help about the food from other Canadians I tagged..that is great!

Yes, very, very helpful!!

With the bounce, it can last up to 6 cycles. But it can resolve any time before that as well. Some cats bounce for 6 cycles and others only for a couple of cycles. We are yet to see what Baby does.

Ok, this makes sense, I'll keep an eye out.

Excellent Baby is showing interest in the food she ate before getting sick. I would gradually try and wean her away from the higher carb temptations now if you can and see how she goes. But be aware that the BGs could be lower with the low carb food. She might take a day or two to get back to normal low carb food! But that’s OK. The main thing is, she is eating as much as possible. Her snacks during the cycle should eventually become normal low carb foods.
Keep going with the cerenia ….don’t stop it even if she is eating quite well. She may need it for several days or longer after she’s eating well as the nausea can hang around for a bit.

Yes, so happy she is eating normally again! I will continue her little temptations snacks to avoid her dropping low. She, and my other 4 furbabies, are very happy to keep having temptations around! I will ask the vet for more cerenia tomorrow as they only gave me enough for two days. Her appetite stimulant and pain med shots will also wear off tomorrow, should I be getting these again or pill form? She doesn't do well with pills so the shots would be ideal (if they aren't too much money) but I'm not sure if she'll need them to last that long again?

I would get a +4 or +5 to see if she is still remaining in higher numbers.

I got a +4 previously and she was at 259. Just got a +6 and she's at 301.

 

[Emily and Baby]

My Kitkat is a fishy cat too. I know mercury is an issue.... but not eating truly is a bigger issue. I feed Kitkat a fair amount of fish (but he also likes chicken, so I am lucky.) Just a note, the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Salmon Feast in Seared Gravy is 15%, and the Grilled Oceanwhitefish &Tuna in Gravy is 13%, if chicken is not their thing

I'm glad I'm not the only one with a fishy cat! Or 5 Ok, I will look for those ones. Baby will eat a bit of chicken, but only real chicken, she's fancy apparently LOL.

 

[Emily and Baby]

The idea with "feeding the curve" is more if your kitty's numbers may be dropping the way they did yesterday. When you saw the blue numbers, giving Baby some low carb food with the hope that it will slow the drop is what you're shooting for. If it were me, I would have suggested testing at +4, given your test result at +3 and then either fed more LC or if there was still a substantial drop, adding in some HC food. Your goal is to keep Baby in normal/good BG numbers for as long as possible.

I hope that makes sense!

That does make sense, thank you!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

will ask the vet for more cerenia tomorrow as they only gave me enough for two days. Her appetite stimulant and pain med shots will also wear off tomorrow, should I be getting these again or pill form? She doesn't do well with pills so the shots would be ideal (if they aren't too much money) but I'm not sure if she'll need them to last that long again?

Yes definitely get more cerenia. You might be able to hide the pills in a temptation. I would get the appetite stimulant tablets and some pain meds in case she is still in any pain from the pancreatitis which is very painful.

Sienne mentioned feeding the curve above. Next time you see a big drop in BG numbers especially in the early part of the cycle like yesterdays am Cycle where it went from +1 283 to +3 162…(then down to 50 @+5) always test the next hour (after the 162) as that is a really indication that the BGs are dropping. You can also give food to manipulate the curve so that it slows down…that’s called feeding the curve. With a bit more data you will see when the onset usually is, and if that is a big drop, you can feed some low carb food before that drop to slow it down. It will take time to find all that out but be aware of it and always test after a big drop and feed.

 

[Emily and Baby]

Yes definitely get more cerenia. You might be able to hide the pills in a temptation. I would get the appetite stimulant tablets and some pain meds in case she is still in any pain from the pancreatitis which is very painful.

Ok, I'll call the vet tomorrow and get more of everything. She's doing so much better, I don't want her to go backwards!

Sienne mentioned feeding the curve above. Next time you see a big drop in BG numbers especially in the early part of the cycle like yesterdays am Cycle where it went from +1 283 to +3 162…(then down to 50 @+5) always test the next hour (after the 162) as that is a really indication that the BGs are dropping. You can also give food to manipulate the curve so that it slows down…that’s called feeding the curve. With a bit more data you will see when the onset usually is, and if that is a big drop, you can feed some low carb food before that drop to slow it down. It will take time to find all that out but be aware of it and always test after a big drop and feed.

Ok, I'll do that next time it happens. Thank you! So hard to learn everything as quick as I need to, I appreciate all the amazing advice!

 

[Emily and Baby]

When should I do the first test after her PM shot? It seems like maybe she starts to go down at +3, should I keep doing +2 or try +3 tonight?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

When should I do the first test after her PM shot? It seems like maybe she starts to go down at +3, should I keep doing +2 or try +3 tonight?

Levemir normally insets later than Lantus. We don’t really have much data yet and two of the three cycles we do have are bounces. You could try a +3 and see how you go.
Looking at the remarks column Baby is starting to eat quite well. Still liking the temptations I see. Are you able to start reducing then yet and replace them with low carb or is it too soon?

 

[Emily and Baby]

Levemir normally insets later than Lantus. We don’t really have much data yet and two of the three cycles we do have are bounces. You could try a +3 and see how you go.
Looking at the remarks column Baby is starting to eat quite well. Still liking the temptations I see. Are you able to start reducing then yet and replace them with low carb or is it too soon?

Ok, I will do a +3.
She is eating better. Should I see about reducing the temptations by half and see how that goes?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Ok, I will do a +3.
She is eating better. Should I see about reducing the temptations by half and see how that goes?

We don’t want her to eat less. When you think she is ready, I’ll leave it up to you to gradually reduce the temptations and increase the low carb. Just be aware that the BGs could be lower as the temptations decrease.

 

[Emily and Baby]

We don’t want her to eat less. When you think she is ready, I’ll leave it up to you to gradually reduce the temptations and increase the low carb. Just be aware that the BGs could be lower as the temptations decrease.

Ok, I will do this and slowly swap one for the other. I've kind of just been letting her eat as much as she wants when I offer LC food and she usually only has about 1/8 of a portion or less. She has eaten much more LC on her own this time, so I will just give less temptations right now. Is there a max amount of LC that I should be offering for snacks or let her decide? This is really the first time she's eaten a 'meal' size since coming home.

Also, when should I test again this time?

As well, is it helpful that I change the title when I have a question or unnecessary? I don't want to appear rude, just trying to make it easy to see at a glance what I'm wondering, but if it's enough to see there's a new post, I will stop doing that!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Ok, I will do this and slowly swap one for the other. I've kind of just been letting her eat as much as she wants when I offer LC food and she usually only has about 1/8 of a portion or less. She has eaten much more LC on her own this time, so I will just give less temptations right now. Is there a max amount of LC that I should be offering for snacks or let her decide? This is really the first time she's eaten a 'meal' size since coming home.

Also, when should I test again this time?

I would let her eat as much as she wants…I’m really pleased to hear she has eaten a meal sized portion of low carb food.
The reason food is so important is that when they don’t eat, their body uses fat for fuel instead of the normal glucose. When this happens the by product of burning fat is ketones. So we need to make sure she has plenty of food so her body doesn’t have to burn fat. Does that make sense?
She looks like she is still bouncing. I’d get another test around +7 and if that is still high you could leave it til amps.

 

[Emily and Baby]

I would let her eat as much as she wants…I’m really pleased to hear she has eaten a meal sized portion of low carb food.

Me too! So happy!!! Feel like I need a huge treat myself to celebrate

The reason food is so important is that when they don’t eat, their body uses fat for fuel instead of the normal glucose. When this happens the by product of burning fat is ketones. So we need to make sure she has plenty of food so her body doesn’t have to burn fat. Does that make sense?

Yes, this makes sense.

She looks like she is still bouncing. I’d get another test around +7 and if that is still high you could leave it til amps.

Ok will do! I'm going to get some sleep then while I can!
Thank you!!!!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Me too! So happy!!! Feel like I need a huge treat myself to celebrate

Absolutely, you deserve it!

I'm going to get some sleep then while I can!

Good idea. You must be very tired. But great progress today!

 

[Emily and Baby]

Absolutely, you deserve it!

Good idea. You must be very tired. But great progress today!

Thank you! Got a couple hours.

She's 297 at +7, maybe coming down from not having as many temptations? Is this ok or did I decrease the temptations too quickly? She didn't get as many as I was sleeping and I can't leave them out, her and the other cats would just eat as many as possible lol.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

It’s a fairly flat cycle really. I’d give her something to eat and then leave it until amps. I was going to say go back to bed but it’s probably morning now.
As long as she is eating well and you can monitor the BGs it’s ok to reduce the temptations now. im heading to bed soon so I will see you to tomorrow my time.

 

[Emily and Baby]

It’s a fairly flat cycle really. I’d give her something to eat and then leave it until amps. I was going to say go back to bed but it’s probably morning now.
As long as she is eating well and you can monitor the BGs it’s ok to reduce the temptations now. im heading to bed soon so I will see you to tomorrow my time.

Ok, sounds good! I'll leave it till AMPS and continue reducing the temptations and increasing LC food/treats.
It's 6 am here and I don't work until 830 so I'm going to sneak in a bit more sleep.
Thanks again for all your help, hope you have a good rest!