? Feeling a little frustrated.

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Danoodle009

Danoodle009

Member Since 2023
Good morning! I posted once before: but my name is Danielle, and my cat Pinky (15) is newly diagnosed with diabetes. The vet I had been working with chatted with me Friday, and indicated that they wanted him to be dropped off today and picked up Friday to get appropriate dosing and the glucose curve. Between research, chatting with my fiancé, and speaking with you all here, I decided ultimately that this was a bad idea. On top of you all explaining to me why this is a bad idea, he has a heart murmur, and I'd hate to put that kind of stress on his little body. A full five days seemed a little excessive to me.

When I called and explained this to her - and that I was actively monitoring his blood sugar all weekend - she told me that she would not take my at-home results and this is the way they do it. If I wanted insulin for him from her, I'd have to do it her way. I let her know that I would be contacting another vet, and I am now waiting on a call back from the vet I primarily use for my other two animals.

I am feeling a little frustrated overall. He's reacting well to the wet food we switched him to; he seems much happier. His blood sugar seems to be elevated in the mornings (through the weekend and today, his morning BG was anywhere between 150-180), but by the afternoon and evening, he was between 90-120. I tried to get advice from the vet on the phone, but she refused to give me anything because the numbers I provided were not the ones she herself recorded. I am feeling a little frustrated, and I am hopeful that my primary care vet will give me more information.

I'm just wondering if you all have any advice on what I should do in this situation, especially given his numbers. Additionally, I am happy to set up the signature, but I don't have him on insulin yet, so I am not sure if this would be helpful. Please let me know if it would be, and I would be glad to! Thank you so much!
 
I think going to another vet is def the right move so good for you! I can’t believe this vet and I’m upset on your behalf. Unfortunately, you can’t get insulin without a prescription, unless you were to get it from someone who is diabetic or if someone is selling it in our supply closet forum. He does need insulin but not a ton since his numbers are close to the normal range. I suspect the change in diet has made all the difference and I wouldn’t be surprised if all he needs is .5 or even .25. He also seems like a prime candidate for going into remission so I hope your vet can see him asap. Make sure to let him or her know all the info we’ve discussed and how you want to proceed with his treatment, i.e. home testing. You can do the curve at home now that you’re home testing. Maybe it’s a good idea to do that and have it ready for the vet. A curve means you test him every 2 hours during a 12 hour period.
 
My primary vet has always been great with my other kitty and pup, so I am hopeful they will work with me. The vet I had been taking him to was out of emergency/necessity as he was dealing with jaundice two weeks ago, but he is no longer yellow, and he is very hydrated and eating enough. After a lot of shuffling, they never found out what caused it (they said likely fatty liver or pancreatitis), so they gave him antibiotics and an anti-inflammatory. We seem to be out of the woods with those now, so I am just concerned with getting his diabetes appropriately treated. I am currently weaning him off of an appetite stimulant because he is eating great. I switched him to a high-protein, low carb food, and it really does seem to be making all the difference.

I will chat with my primary vet when they give me a call back today. I am hopeful that they will take my home tests. I will likely do his full glucose curve tomorrow; I ordered some cat-safe wound cleaner and it won't show up until tomorrow, so I don't want to poke him that often until I can confidently keep his little pokes clean. He tends to eat slowly, sometimes it can take him a full hour to eat a meal. Would I just note on the glucose curve notes when a number was close to him eating?
 
The only time you want to withhold the food 2 hours prior is for the preshot tests in the am and the pm. For all the other test times, it doesn’t really matter.

btw, if you don’t have all the lab work and test results from the other vet, you can ask for it as you have the right to have them since you paid for all of it. It will be helpful for your primary vet to see it
 
Thank you so much for your advice! Without you all, he'd be at the vet already and for the rest of the week, and I would be a nervous wreck (and he probably would be, too). I feel more confident about everything now, especially as I am seeing such positive results from him just by changing his diet. Now I know to avoid dry food!
 
I’m second guessing my advice for you to do a curve without insulin because the point is it is to see how the insulin is affecting his bg, so let me get someone else’s input as well. It may be that you need to wait for the insulin so hold that thought. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) wdyt?
 
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My primary vet got back to me and let me know they also won't take my at home glucose numbers. I'm honestly starting to get a little anxious and frustrated. I want to get him the insulin he needs, but I don't want to subject him to being at the vet to get the right dosage. I am not sure where to go from here.

She indicated that they are not typically kept overnight, but I am nervous about it since I know those numbers at the vet would likely not be accurate due to stress.
 
That sounds crazy to me. My current vet is the one who asked me if I’d be willing to do a curve at home because it’d be much better for Minnie. That’s how I ended up here looking for tips on meters and home testing. I’m tagging more folks here to see what they suggest but I do know a LOT of us are able to test and email the results to our vets so that’s not the exception. Do you mind sharing what state and city you are in? Maybe there’s someone here who lives there and can suggest a vet they work with.

@Bron and Sheba (GA) @tiffmaxee @Hendrick Cuddleclaw @Larry and Kitties @Red & Rover (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom @Chris & China (GA) @Wendy&Neko
 
I live in Eastern Kansas and would be willing to travel a bit if something worked.

If all else fails, my cousin is an RN and if I explained the situation she might be able to put in a prescription for me for Lantus/the generic form. She has done that for family members for various things before.
 
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Blood sugar numbers can be much higher at the vet. That's a crazy way to test how he'll be doing at home. I would ask the vet why they don't take home glucose numbers. From this post: (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats (which you might want to sent to your vet and highlight certain sections.
An essential aspect of successful DM management is to ensure that the owner of a diabetic dog or cat is capable of administering insulin, recognizing the clinical signs of inadequately managed DM, and monitoring blood glucose levels at home,
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That's from the abstract, and it's reinforced in the section on Treatment for Cats. Most vets respond better to scientific papers than "I saw it online".

Can you say what city you live in? Maybe start a post in this forum asking for good vet in that city.
 
I live in Lawrence, but there's vets scattered all over eastern Kansas. If there's one in LFK that would work with home numbers, that would be great.

My primary vet is a country vet as they put it, so I am inevitably not surprised that they want to do things the old fashioned way.
 
What blood glucose meter are you using?
The numbers you quoted aren’t terribly bad.

I’ve gotta hope you can find a vet in the greater Lawrence area who will work with you. If all else fails, you could always consider making the trek to Manhattan to see an IM specialist at KSU. Most university vet schools are more up to speed on FD than some of the old-school vets and are better versed on feline diabetes studies and appropriate insulins.
 
JL and Chip said:
What blood glucose meter are you using?
The numbers you quoted aren’t terribly bad.

I’ve gotta hope you can find a vet in the greater Lawrence area who will work with you. If all else fails, you could always consider making the trek to Manhattan to see an IM specialist at KSU. Most university vet schools are more up to speed on FD than some of the old-school vets and are better versed on feline diabetes studies and appropriate insulins.
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I am using the Relion Premier Classic. So far, I have been very happy to see the numbers not being terribly high. If I can't find a vet in the area to help, I will definitely give them a call and chat with them about options. An hour and a half isn't a bad drive.
 
Mostly my concern is that I won't be able to get anything/find a new vet for a few weeks that will work with me. Will he be okay in that time? What can I do to help him at this point?

I just want to do what is right by him, and I know that stressing his little body isn't the right decision.
 
Let's start by setting up that signature. Let us know what food you are feeding, and maybe start entering some numbers in the blood sugar spreadsheet. Maybe we'll have some tips to help you. As longs as his numbers don't start increasing, you may be fine to wait.
 
I’m in So Cal so no help with a vet from me unfortunately. Elevated glucose due to stress is real. My vet is nearing the end of his career yet the only curve he did was as after the first shot of Lantus and Jax was only there about 8 hours. Keep searching and if you find a get they will accept your numbers who insists on a pet meter, use it for curves and use a human meter the rest of the time as pet strips are expensive.
 
@Danoodle009 start a new post titled something like looking for vet recommendations in Lawrence, Kansas and let’s see if you get any suggestions. If your cousin comes through in the meantime, you can get the generic Lantus sooner.

we all have been saying his numbers are pretty good for a diabetic cat with no insulin so try not to worry too much and keep monitoring him :bighug:
 
Thank you! I will do that now. I believe I set up the signature and his spreadsheet correctly; since I don't have him on insulin yet I just put the numbers in based on when he was tested.

Thank you all for your help! I have been worrying myself sick over him.
 
I sent you an invite to a PM conversation with myself and another forum member containing an email that I sent my vet. The email contains an explanation of our methods here along with some linked references. I spent some time on it and It worked with my vet who was skeptical and was at first requesting in-house curves etc. May or may not help but worth a shot.

This particular owner/vet scenario comes up so often here on the forums I’m considering posting as a sort of email template for members. For now it needs to stay a PM. And if anyone else reading this post would like an invite just send me a message or reply here. Hope it helps!
 
AbbottTheCat said:
I sent you an invite to a PM conversation with myself and another forum member containing an email that I sent my vet. The email contains an explanation of our methods here along with some linked references. I spent some time on it and It worked with my vet who was skeptical and was at first requesting in-house curves etc. May or may not help but worth a shot.

This particular owner/vet scenario comes up so often here on the forums I’m considering posting as a sort of email template for members. For now it needs to stay a PM. And if anyone else reading this post would like an invite just send me a message or reply here. Hope it helps!
Click to expand...

Hello, that sounds really amazing, would you mind inviting me to the email? I am also new, and frustrated with the way our vet is handling my cats case. I’m worried she might stop helping, and would love to see how I can advocate better for my cat. Thank you
 
Here's your previous post, your intro post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newly-diagnosed-senior-cat.272700/#post-3033170

If you can find a vet who will work with you
You can have the vet write the script for generic lantus ,many members use it
Here is some info
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

You will also need to buy U-100 syringes with half unit markings if you switch to generic lantus

You can also get the syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
This is what the packaging looks like: either box
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
:




upload_2021-9-5_23-18-9-jpeg.62508



49823063143_3437e9e997_o.jpg
 
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Lauren and Loki said:
Hello, that sounds really amazing, would you mind inviting me to the email? I am also new, and frustrated with the way our vet is handling my cats case. I’m worried she might stop helping, and would love to see how I can advocate better for my cat. Thank you
Click to expand...
I invited you. Make sure to read the last few posts in the convo as there were a couple drafts of the email before the final. Hope it helps!
 
Danoodle009 said:
not surprised that they want to do things the old fashioned way
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I'd like to know exactly what that means. Reaching into your wallet while making you feel guilty and stupid?
-I have never heard of any vet needing five days to determine appropriate dosing and do a curve.
-Not accepting your home readings is a slap in the face. We all do it and it's common knowledge that cats get stressed at clinics and those numbers do not show what's really happening. It's also a waste of money.
-If your cousin does get you a prescription please make sure you haven't put her in a legal or ethical bind. Your vet is also a bit short on ethics. Here is a cat he knows will probably need insulin and he's making it harder and much more expensive than it needs to be.
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
I'd like to know exactly what that means. Reaching into your wallet while making you feel guilty and stupid?
-I have never heard of any vet needing five days to determine appropriate dosing and do a curve.
-Not accepting your home readings is a slap in the face. We all do it and it's common knowledge that cats get stressed at clinics and those numbers do not show what's really happening. It's also a waste of money.
-If your cousin does get you a prescription please make sure you haven't put her in a legal or ethical bind. Your vet is also a bit short on ethics. Here is a cat he knows will probably need insulin and he's making it harder and much more expensive than it needs to be.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this! Overall I am feeling incredibly frustrated and angry about the situation. Thankfully Pinky is showing solid numbers as I have checked him through the week, but what if he hadn't? What if his numbers were insanely high and putting him at risk and I would just have to go with whatever the vet said?

I definitely won't! I haven't talked to my cousin yet but I was going to ask her what that looks like in terms of the law if I do have to. I definitely don't want to get her in trouble either. :)
 
I'm not advising you to not get insulin just because the vet is being a bonehead. Do what you have to do and then find another vet.
Do not fall into the guilt trap where money equals love. A lot of members get their insulin over the internet and syringes and lancets can be found at Walmart.
None of us are vets and we all started somewhere. It can be frustrating at first but for me having two sugar cats was one of life's rewards.
You're in good hands now with the help you're getting, good luck. :) :coffee:
 
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