? Dka

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JenJen9705

JenJen9705

Member Since 2022
Admins please help me! Is 1 or 2 units a high # to start or normal for pro zinc? My girl is possibly going into dka. I just left the vet she had sub q fluids earlier today at home & hasn’t ate in 24 hours. They were closing so the option was to take her home give her the insulin & force feed her. I fed her probably 2 tablespoons of wet food through a syringe should I give the insulin? Start at 1 to be careful? They can hospitalize her in the morning. The emergency vet said it would be $6-7k. I can’t afford that. I’m scared I’m going to lose my girl.
 
Can you tell us if you are home testing your kitty’s blood glucose?
When was your kitty diagnosed?
Have you given insulin before?
Did the vet test for ketones in the urine? Were there any ketones present?
 
I’ve just looked at the fb page and can see you are posting over there as well.
I can see she has ketones and you have been treating with just a diet change but no insulin before now.

****Why don’t vets tell caregivers that if they are just going to do a food change they must also check for ketones in the urine:banghead:

I can also see you have been advised to get a testing kit and start testing the blood glucose and get some ketostix to test for ketones.

You have been advised to give 1 unit of prozinc on the fb page.
I would be happier if you were home testing but your kitty definitely needs some insulin if there are ketones.

You also need to give as much food as you can get into her overnight.
As she is not eating herself,. I would recommend staying up with her and syringe feeding her every two hours.
It is food and insulin which will get rid of ketones.

How much subQ fluids did you give this morning.
 
She was diagnosed back in July. Been trying diet change. Her numbers were in the 300s. After diet change the 200s so we never started insulin. Ketones were present in her urine which I’ve been testing at home with strips. Been testing glucose with strips too. I do have a relion but haven’t been using it since she hasn’t been on insulin. Today a mobile vet came due to her decline gave her antibiotic shot & sub q fluids. I felt I needed a second opinion so took her to the vet he said her ketones high & her white blood cells. They were closing so I brought her home fed her about 2-3 tablespoons of food though a syringe & gave her 1u of pro zinc. My plan is to take her back in the morning & leave for treatment all day. I’m new to all this & so upset. We should’ve started insulin a long time ago & this may have not happened. :( I hope she fights through this so I can give her insulin & have more time with her.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I’ve just looked at the fb page and can see you are posting over there as well.
I can see she has ketones and you have been treating with just a diet change but no insulin before now.

****Why don’t vets tell caregivers that if they are just going to do a food change they must also check for ketones in the urine:banghead:

I can also see you have been advised to get a testing kit and start testing the blood glucose and get some ketostix to test for ketones.

You have been advised to give 1 unit of prozinc on the fb page.
I would be happier if you were home testing but your kitty definitely needs some insulin if there are ketones.

You also need to give as much food as you can get into her overnight.
As she is not eating herself,. I would recommend staying up with her and syringe feeding her every two hours.
It is food and insulin which will get rid of ketones.

How much subQ fluids did you give this morning.
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She was given 200 of sub q fluids around noon. That vet said to give her 100 more tonight. The vet this evening said no more fluids because it’s too much on her heart. It’s so confusing! I will get up & feed her every 2 hours. The syringe holds 2 tables spoons so I’ll shoot for that.
 
JenJen9705 said:
She was given 200 of sub q fluids around noon. That vet said to give her 100 more tonight. The vet this evening said no more fluids because it’s too much on her heart. It’s so confusing! I will get up & feed her every 2 hours. The syringe holds 2 tables spoons so I’ll shoot for that.
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I agree with the vet this evening that you should not give any more subQ fluids tonight. 200 mls is enough and it is true that you do have to be careful with the heart when giving the subQ fluids.
 
I’m glad the vet gave an antibiotic injection. That should help if there is an infection.
The recipe for DKA is not enough insulin, not enough food and an infection or inflammation in the body.
So to try and counteract that happening we need to address those three issues.
Once DKA has happened though you do need to have her treated by the vet as they need to be checking her electrolytes and other things that go wrong with DKA.
But for now if she just has the ketones we can try and help her until she get to the vet tomorrow.

  • If you can feed her every two hours that would be very good. You can water the food down a bit to get it into the syringe and that will give her some fluids as well. We need to get as much food into her as she can tolerate. We don’t want to make her vomit though, so you will have to gauge that,
  • Oral fluids are different to subQ fluids so are OK
  • If the 12 hours is up after you gave the first dose of prozinc and you haven’t got to the vet, please give her another 1 unit dose and then take the insulin with you to the vet.
  • If you can get the ReliOn meter out and start testing the blood glucose, that would be excellent and would help us know that the BG has not dropped too low.
  • If you can catch a urine, please test it for ketones
I will be around foe the next 10 hours so post anytime and I will see.
So your main jobs for the night is 2 hourly feeds, try and get some BG tests done if you can with the ReliOn meter and get a ketones test done if possible.
If by any chance she drops low and starts showing signs of a hypo such as staggering, give her a couple of drops of honey or kero through the e-tube.
 
Glad to see you over here @JenJen9705 from the FB group!

Yes, definitely don't give any more fluids tonight. 200 is already more than most cats should get. Usually 150 is about as high as we go.

Try to get as much food into her as possible. I know syringe feeding can be challenging (and messy) but food is like medicine when there are ketones.

JenJen9705 said:
The syringe holds 2 tables spoons so I’ll shoot for that.
Click to expand...

Does the syringe say how many ml's it is?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Glad to see you over here @JenJen9705 from the FB group!

Yes, definitely don't give any more fluids tonight. 200 is already more than most cats should get. Usually 150 is about as high as we go.

Try to get as much food into her as possible. I know syringe feeding can be challenging (and messy) but food is like medicine when there are ketones.



Does the syringe say how many ml's it is?
Click to expand...
It’s 10mls/2tsp. So feed her as much as I can without making her sick?
 
JenJen9705 said:
It’s 10mls/2tsp. So feed her as much as I can without making her sick?
Click to expand...
I would aim for the two tablespoons of food each 2 hours with some water added for ease of giving it.
. If you think she can’t tolerate that much then reduce a bit. We don’t want to make her vomit but we want to get as much food into her as possible.
Does that make sense? you are with her and can see how she is reacting to the food.

Do you think she would eat any of her old food she ate before diabetes?
At the moment we don’t care what she eats as long as it is food.
So if you think she would eat dry food, then try her with that, or any other ‘unsuitable for diabetic cats food’.
At the moment any food is Ok for her to eat as eating trumps everything else.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I’m glad the vet gave an antibiotic injection. That should help if there is an infection.
The recipe for DKA is not enough insulin, not enough food and an infection or inflammation in the body.
So to try and counteract that happening we need to address those three issues.
Once DKA has happened though you do need to have her treated by the vet as they need to be checking her electrolytes and other things that go wrong with DKA.
But for now if she just has the ketones we can try and help her until she get to the vet tomorrow.

  • If you can feed her every two hours that would be very good. You can water the food down a bit to get it into the syringe and that will give her some fluids as well. We need to get as much food into her as she can tolerate. We don’t want to make her vomit though, so you will have to gauge that,
  • Oral fluids are different to subQ fluids so are OK
  • If the 12 hours is up after you gave the first dose of prozinc and you haven’t got to the vet, please give her another 1 unit dose and then take the insulin with you to the vet.
  • If you can get the ReliOn meter out and start testing the blood glucose, that would be excellent and would help us know that the BG has not dropped too low.
  • If you can catch a urine, please test it for ketones
I will be around foe the next 10 hours so post anytime and I will see.
So your main jobs for the night is 2 hourly feeds, try and get some BG tests done if you can with the ReliOn meter and get a ketones test done if possible.
If by any chance she drops low and starts showing signs of a hypo such as staggering, give her a couple of drops of honey or kero through the e-tube.
Click to expand...

This is so helpful. The vet didn’t say anything about this. I will do all that. She hasn’t gone to the bathroom but if she does i’ll get some urine. I got the meter out but she’s under the bed. I will try to get a reading when I feed her again. Or should I do it before food? How long does the insulin take to kick in. I’ll definitely try to test before the morning dosage. How often should I test tonight? What do I need to look out for if she goes hypo?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would aim for the two tablespoons of food each 2 hours with some water added for ease of giving it.
. If you think she can’t tolerate that much then reduce a bit. We don’t want to make her vomit but we want to get as much food into her as possible.
Does that make sense? you are with her and can see how she is reacting to the food.

Do you think she would eat any of her old food she ate before diabetes?
At the moment we don’t care what she eats as long as it is food.
So if you think she would eat dry food, then try her with that, or any other ‘unsuitable for diabetic cats food’.
At the moment any food is Ok for her to eat as eating trumps everything else.
Click to expand...
She has no interest in the dry food. I’ve been feeding fancy feast & weuvra kitten food. I used that tonight because it’s very soft & mixed well with the water.
 
JenJen9705 said:
This is so helpful. The vet didn’t say anything about this. I will do all that. She hasn’t gone to the bathroom but if she does i’ll get some urine. I got the meter out but she’s under the bed. I will try to get a reading when I feed her again. Or should I do it before food? How long does the insulin take to kick in. I’ll definitely try to test before the morning dosage. How often should I test tonight? What do I need to look out for if she goes hypo?
Click to expand...
Test anytime is OK. The insulin onset is around 2 hours after it is given. But any BG tests are good. The only test you need to do before food is the one before you give insulin. Try and time it so that there is about 2 hours from when you last fed to the pre shot test if you can, but feeding her is more important than anything else at the moment.
If you are testing the BG you will see it is getting lower before there are any sign s of a hypo.
Post any tests so we can see please. We will be around all the time….24 hours a day.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Test anytime is OK. The insulin onset is around 2 hours after it is given. But any BG tests are good. The only test you need to do before food is the one before you give insulin. Try and time it so that there is about 2 hours from when you last fed to the pre shot test if you can, but feeding her is more important than anything else at the moment.
If you are testing the BG you will see it is getting lower before there are any sign s of a hypo.
Post any tests so we can see please. We will be around all the time….24 hours a day.
Click to expand...
Ok thank you! She’s hiding under the bed but I’ll set an alarm & drag her out to feed & try to test every 2 hours.
 
JenJen9705 said:
Ok thank you! She’s hiding under the bed but I’ll set an alarm & drag her out to feed & try to test every 2 hours.
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If you can get that 10 ml syringe of food into her each two hours that will be good.
If you think you are losing much of it as you feed it, you might have to give a bit more.
What we are wanting the body to do is to use the food you are feeding her as it’s energy. At the moment her body is burning protein and fats for energy instead of glucose and producing ketones as a byproduct because she is not eating enough food. Does that make sense?
Keep in contact:bighug:
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you can get that 10 ml syringe of food into her each two hours that will be good.
If you think you are losing much of it as you feed it, you might have to give a bit more.
What we are wanting the body to do is to use the food you are feeding her as it’s energy. At the moment her body is burning protein and fats for energy instead of glucose and producing ketones as a byproduct because she is not eating enough food. Does that make sense?
Keep in contact:bighug:
Click to expand...
Yes that does make sense! So glad someone finally explained it to me where I get it. She came out from the bed to drink water so I went ahead & gave her another syringe full. So she’s had about 3 of those in the last 3 hours.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I sure hope you thought the GA meant "general advice" or that you live in Georgia. Here it stands for Guardian Angel or Gone Ahead and means our kitty has passed away.

When I was new here, I saw a lot of GA's after people's names and thought "wow, there's a lot of people from Georgia here!"
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I had no clue. Thought it meant general advice. I didn’t read through everything just went straight to getting advice. Sorry about that.
 
JenJen9705 said:
Changed
Click to expand...
Just an update. I’m on my 3rd 2 hour feeding. I just realized she threw up a little from the previous feeding. So far so good with this one. She’s not drinking as much water & when she got up to walk her leg came out from under her a second. She did go to the litter box but I didn’t get to her in time to get a urine sample. Tried to get BG. Poked her ear 3x no luck with blood.
 
JenJen9705 said:
Tried to get BG. Poked her ear 3x no luck with blood.
Click to expand...

Make sure her ear is really warm. Most of us put some dry rice or oatmeal into a sock, tie it off and microwave it for 10-20 seconds (test on your wrist like a baby bottle to make sure it's not too hot) and then hold it against the ear to get it good and warm. You can also just use a washrag run under some hot water and then put it into a baggie so the water doesn't make the ear wet. Again, test for temperature before using it.

You may need to get different lancets too. Most "kits" come with 31 gauge which are too thin for new ears. 25-28 gauge are thicker so you're more likely to get blood. As you poke more and more, new capillaries will also start to grow into the area to "heal the wound" and it'll get easier and easier to get blood. We call it "learning to bleed".

Hang in there! We're praying for both of you!

It's time for me to get off the computer tonight but I'm sure @Bron and Sheba (GA) will keep an eye out for you.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Make sure her ear is really warm. Most of us put some dry rice or oatmeal into a sock, tie it off and microwave it for 10-20 seconds (test on your wrist like a baby bottle to make sure it's not too hot) and then hold it against the ear to get it good and warm. You can also just use a washrag run under some hot water and then put it into a baggie so the water doesn't make the ear wet. Again, test for temperature before using it.

You may need to get different lancets too. Most "kits" come with 31 gauge which are too thin for new ears. 25-28 gauge are thicker so you're more likely to get blood. As you poke more and more, new capillaries will also start to grow into the area to "heal the wound" and it'll get easier and easier to get blood. We call it "learning to bleed".

Hang in there! We're praying for both of you!

It's time for me to get off the computer tonight but I'm sure @Bron and Sheba (GA) will keep an eye out for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info. Have a good night.
 
JenJen9705 said:
About 15 or 2O mins after I fed her. I don’t think I have anything. If I do it’s very old & expired from my last cat that had kidney disease.
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make sure you get some cerenia and ondansetron from the vet tomorrow as you will be needing them for when she comes back home from the vet tomorrow. The vet might give her an injection of cerenia initially but you will be needing the oral medications for after that.
I would try half and see how that goes.
 
Last edited:
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
make sure you get some cerenia and ondansetron from the vet tomorrow as you will be needing them for when she comes back home from the vet tomorrow. The vet might give her an injection of cerebra initially but you will be needing the oral medications for after that.
I would try half and see how that goes.
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Ok I will. Her 2 hours is up in 30 mins. Should I still do it then or wait a little longer?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Ok. That sound fair.
How is she generally, do you think compared to earlier in the day?
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She seems a tiny bit better but not a lot. She’s laying by her water bowl but not really drinking much. Last night she was drinking a lot. She seems so pitiful. It’s breaking my heart.
 
JenJen9705 said:
She seems a tiny bit better but not a lot. She’s laying by her water bowl but not really drinking much. Last night she was drinking a lot. She seems so pitiful. It’s breaking my heart.
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You are taking her to the vet in the morning aren’t you? They should be able to help Her. You are doing a really good job keeping her stable until then
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You are taking her to the vet in the morning aren’t you? They should be able to help Her. You are doing a really good job keeping her stable until then
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She threw up again right before I was about to feed her. Yes they open at 7:30 or 8 & I’ll be there. I’m so worried.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You are taking her to the vet in the morning aren’t you? They should be able to help Her. You are doing a really good job keeping her stable until then
Click to expand...
I mean do cats make it through this with limited care like this? Is she suffering? What if she needs days of care at a 24/7 place that I can’t afford?
 
JenJen9705 said:
She threw up again right before I was about to feed her. Yes they open at 7:30 or 8 & I’ll be there. I’m so worried.
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Did she throw up a lot?
JenJen9705 said:
I mean do cats make it through this with limited care like this? Is she suffering? What if she needs days of care at a 24/7 place that I can’t afford?
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hopefully your vet will be able to put her on a drip in the morning and an injection for vomiting and hopefully she will only still have ketones and not DKA.
It’s about 5.45 am there isn’t it, so not too long to wait. Are they expecting you?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Did she throw up a lot?

hopefully your vet will be able to put her on a drip in the morning and an injection for vomiting and hopefully she will only still have ketones and not DKA.
It’s about 5.45 am there isn’t it, so not too long to wait. Are they expecting you?
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Yes I emailed them & said I was coming when they opened. How do they know if she’s in dka? I’ll be devastated if she passes away there & I’m not with her. I don’t want to leave her but I know it’s her only chance.
 
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