12/29 Chronos AMPS 467 +3 412 +5 379 +8 383 SLGS Vet Custom
- Thread starter Dan and Marc
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Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
We did hold his 1 unit dose for a week and a few people here said to increase to 1.25 which we are at now. The initial starting does of 0.5 which the protocol says should be for cats on wet/low carb food wasn't fully accurate for him. He is on wet food but its not the best low carb due to kidney diet so our vet said to change it to 1 unit which is basically what the protocal says "1u BID if kitty is not on a wet/canned low carb diet", since his isn't strictly on a low carb diet. I noted the vet said to up it to 1 on the spread sheet as well at that time.
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
I totally agree that the increase was needed. Is he eating dry food?
what percent carbs is his food? I would like to see him follow TR until better numbers are seen. It need not be 100% lc is mostly under 10% and not feeding any dry. It would get him into better numbers faster.
what percent carbs is his food? I would like to see him follow TR until better numbers are seen. It need not be 100% lc is mostly under 10% and not feeding any dry. It would get him into better numbers faster.
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
His food is in my signature but: Diet: Royal Canin D 3.5 Cans (3oz) and 1/2 Pouch of Weruva Jeopurrdy Chicken Pate, hasn't been on dry since a kitten. He is also just over 18lbs.
The issue he has is that we have tried higher protein less carb, but when we do his kidney values all get worse. The vet believes its somehow linked to the higher protein, prior we were doing a lot more protein like 2 tbsp of boiled chicken instead of some of the Royal Canin and more of the Weruva, but his next few blood works showed pretty big changes to his kidney values. Once we got him to this current diet the values slowly returned back down to his normal levels.
So we settled on this mixture awhile back. He originally started showing symptoms back in April and was on an even worse carb food, Hills K/D. I think the royal canin is at least half he carbs of that. We met with a nutritionists to figure all this out. So we put him on the mix of royal canin and weruva since weruva is pretty low carb and he was able to go back to normal numbers back in May. He has been eating that since.
The issue he has is that we have tried higher protein less carb, but when we do his kidney values all get worse. The vet believes its somehow linked to the higher protein, prior we were doing a lot more protein like 2 tbsp of boiled chicken instead of some of the Royal Canin and more of the Weruva, but his next few blood works showed pretty big changes to his kidney values. Once we got him to this current diet the values slowly returned back down to his normal levels.
So we settled on this mixture awhile back. He originally started showing symptoms back in April and was on an even worse carb food, Hills K/D. I think the royal canin is at least half he carbs of that. We met with a nutritionists to figure all this out. So we put him on the mix of royal canin and weruva since weruva is pretty low carb and he was able to go back to normal numbers back in May. He has been eating that since.
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
Yea unfortunately as our vet said we are kind of stuck with this food which isn't the most ideal for diabetes since we have clinical proof the higher protein was not good for his kidneys.
I did call our vet to see what she thinks, maybe he does need to go to a higher dose similar to TR especially since he is 18lbs.
I did call our vet to see what she thinks, maybe he does need to go to a higher dose similar to TR especially since he is 18lbs.
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
According to the Dr. Pierson food chart the Royal Canin D is 16% carbs but is the lowest of the kidney diets as well as lower protein, why the nutritionist picked it.
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
Talked to our vet, found a post on the forum about the Weruva BFF line that is newer. Going to try adjusting his food, probably get him to half that and half his royal canin and see how he does both BG and kidney wise. Our vet said she would also prefer we just increase him to 1.5, that she understands the idea behind 1.25 but that she generally recommends 0.5 increments especially with his size, and we are monitoring as we do, and since his levels are still increasing. I understand this isn't exactly following SLGS but at the same time know the very first thing on this site is that we all acknowledge we are lay people and to work with our vets as much as possible. I thankfully have a great relationship with mine and so I've updated my signature and his SS with "SLGS Custom by Vet" to reflect this.
Once we start the diet transition I will be very carefully monitoring his BG and make adjustments as needed.
Once we start the diet transition I will be very carefully monitoring his BG and make adjustments as needed.
Out of curiosity, which higher protein food did you try before. The amount of phosphorus is usually key.
By the way, we use size of cat to determine starting dose on TR, but size of cat doesn't usually tie to size of dose that works for them. I've seen itty bitty cats on large doses, and large cats on tiny doses. More than size of cat is a consideration. Are you planning to increase per the vet soon?
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
Back in April when this all started he had been eating Hills K/D basically since he was 5 cause of values he had and that his brother died from a kidney episode and they both had similar values. So both our vet and the IM labeled him CKD and knowing now what I do I wouldn't of done the hills diet since its so high in carbs like 40%, the IM agreed but said he didn't want to really change anything since Chronos' kidney values improved and stayed improved for years.
Back in April when he first was diagnosed as diabetic, we switched him to Half Royal Canin D and half the Weruva he is on now as well as adding 2 tbsp of boiled chicken, our vets had us meet with a Nutritionist who took everything she could into consideration and came up with that. We also did a blood work at the start to get baselines for everything, his CREA was still 1.8 and everything else unchanged (SDMA, BUN, Specific Gravity).
After we saw him come back down BG wise from the diet, to normal ranges, which looks like that was mid May we did another blood test and his CREA was now 2.5, gravity lower, BUN slightly higher and SDMA also above normal. Phosphorus was the only thing that remained stable somewhere between 3 and 4 even though the food he was eating was all higher phosphorus than what he was on prior. At that point our vet recommended stopping the boiled chicken, checking his BG regularity to see if it affected anything, which it didn't and then to also reduce the Weruva somewhat. We got to where we are now and he remained stable BG wise till now.
We did two more blood/urine checks between then and now and his CREA was down to 2.3 and the others similarly improved, SDMA just barely normal, BUN down, Gravity a little better. She is guessing since he had been on the K/D diet for so long he just wasn't used to higher protein levels and since his BG was stable then we left it as is.
Oddly enough when we took him in 12/15 and he was officially diagnosed as having diabetes again we did blood work/urine and the specFPL. Now his kidneys are all back to his normal, CREA 2.0, BUN back SDMA below normal and gravity also decently higher. The only bad thing was the specFPL showing 20, though every specFPL he has had has always been "high" like last one was 9. He just has never had symptoms of pancreatitis.
Sorry for the long explanation. But we plan to adjust the dose tonight, honestly even with the half marked syringes I've already been having trouble being sure I was doing 1.25 or not. So the 1.5 will at least be easier for me to accurately dose.
Back in April when he first was diagnosed as diabetic, we switched him to Half Royal Canin D and half the Weruva he is on now as well as adding 2 tbsp of boiled chicken, our vets had us meet with a Nutritionist who took everything she could into consideration and came up with that. We also did a blood work at the start to get baselines for everything, his CREA was still 1.8 and everything else unchanged (SDMA, BUN, Specific Gravity).
After we saw him come back down BG wise from the diet, to normal ranges, which looks like that was mid May we did another blood test and his CREA was now 2.5, gravity lower, BUN slightly higher and SDMA also above normal. Phosphorus was the only thing that remained stable somewhere between 3 and 4 even though the food he was eating was all higher phosphorus than what he was on prior. At that point our vet recommended stopping the boiled chicken, checking his BG regularity to see if it affected anything, which it didn't and then to also reduce the Weruva somewhat. We got to where we are now and he remained stable BG wise till now.
We did two more blood/urine checks between then and now and his CREA was down to 2.3 and the others similarly improved, SDMA just barely normal, BUN down, Gravity a little better. She is guessing since he had been on the K/D diet for so long he just wasn't used to higher protein levels and since his BG was stable then we left it as is.
Oddly enough when we took him in 12/15 and he was officially diagnosed as having diabetes again we did blood work/urine and the specFPL. Now his kidneys are all back to his normal, CREA 2.0, BUN back SDMA below normal and gravity also decently higher. The only bad thing was the specFPL showing 20, though every specFPL he has had has always been "high" like last one was 9. He just has never had symptoms of pancreatitis.
Sorry for the long explanation. But we plan to adjust the dose tonight, honestly even with the half marked syringes I've already been having trouble being sure I was doing 1.25 or not. So the 1.5 will at least be easier for me to accurately dose.
Thanks for the explanation and the details. Good luck with the new dose. And the new Weruva should you try it.
Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
But we are going to try this: BFF Play Pate Lovers Chicken Checkmate Wet Cat Food, saw it recommended on the main forum for others with CKD/Diabetes concerns. Following Tanya's CKD food chart this is what he is eating and what the new food is:
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Here is a list that one of our members posted ,if Chronos likes pates
I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF line.
I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF line.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
I wouldn't go by what the chewey site says when it comes to how many carbs or phosphorus values, Go by what it says on the Weruva Cite
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com
When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pics of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS
This is from the weruva about the chicken checkmate
https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/
The percentages are different than what you posted
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Dan and Marc
Member Since 2019
Hi Diane, yes your post on someone else's thread is what I saw to find these. I got all those values from the Weruva site and Tanya's CKD food chart not from Chewy. Thanks for making sure I had the right info but I think we are good and on the same page <3.