12/27, Sam, AMPS 250, +2 167, +6 52, +6.5 68, PMPS 158, +2 169

chuckstables

chuckstables

Member Since 2022
Yesterday https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-26-sam-amps-106-2-128-6-122-pmps-119-2-130.272273/

He had the flatest curve ever yesterday…. Weird.

Increased to 1.25 as per TR.

I know @Wendy&Neko had said that it’s likely he may only need to be at 1.25 units for a few weeks, so I should monitor frequently.

I’ll be doing an AMPS, +2, +6, PMPS, +2 testing regimen while working from home (WFH, i work WFH one week then in office the next week), (9/14 days in a row).

When in the office i’ll test AMPS, +2, PMPS, +2, +6 (5/14 days in a row).

This is his testing schedule. This is as per my 1 week in office working, then 1 week working from home ( WFH) There will be whole weeks or days when I can follow the WFH testing schedule despite being in an office week. This is because I get a lot of vacation/paid TO days/holidays (for example i should be in the office today and tmrw, but i get them as holidays).

If you see some variation, that’d be why. This is what’ll be on the spreadsheet from now on. Just want ya’ll to know.
 
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AMPS 250, +2 167. I got a +6 last night which was 158, so he seemed to be gradually bouncing from the lower numbers (+2 PMPS last night was 130).
 
Actually, I didn't say a few weeks, I said this:
Wendy&Neko said:
He may only need to be on the 1.25 unit dose a short time.
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It might be cycles of days. Today looks like he's breaking that bounce. That along with an increase can make a very active cycle - hope you got a chance for a later test in today.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Actually, I didn't say a few weeks, I said this: It might be cycles of days. Today looks like he's breaking that bounce. That along with an increase can make a very active cycle - hope you got a chance for a later test in today.
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Ah, my bad Wendy. I've done a +2, will do a +6, he's been fine today.
 
+6, 52. He doesn't have any symptoms of being hypo and hasn't today, so I'm just feeding him half a can of fancy feast LC wet. Will retest in 15 minutes.
 
Still no actual symptoms of being hypo. He's had 2 oz's of FF LC wet. Seems full now, gonna retest in another 10 minutes or so.
 
It generally takes 20-30 minutes for the carbs to hit the bloodstream so testing in 10-15 minutes is a wee bit early. Good catch on the 52, he’s dabbling already with a reducie.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
It generally takes 20-30 minutes for the carbs to hit the bloodstream so testing in 10-15 minutes is a wee bit early. Good catch on the 52, he’s dabbling already with a reducie.
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Yeaaah, he is. I just want him to get used to lower numbers so he stops bouncing.

Bouncing seems universal among all cats on here though (in almost all cats), but a study of the Somoyogi effect on like 50 cats and 2000 blood glucose curves in total found only 5 instances of somogoyi phenomenon. Like he bounced slowly over last night as a result of being lower than normal all day. You'd expect to see a rapid rise in blood sugar in a true somogoyi effect, followed by a slight dip and prolonged high. Not this gradual rise over the entire evening like happened last night. Really weird, makes me wonder.
 
+6.5, 68. He's doing fine. Gonna retest in an hour, but I gave no carot syrup of HC food so I don't need to worry about the sugar wearing off in 20-30 minutes.
 
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Nice to see he’s come up with just LC. Chronic Somogyi rebound was based on a small sample of humans in 1938 and could never be replicated in humans let alone in cats, and at the time, not based on longer acting insulins like Lantus. Chronic Somogyi rebound is not the same as what we refer to here as a bounce.
 
+6.5 68
Christie & Maverick said:
Nice to see he’s come up with just LC. Chronic Somogyi rebound was based on a small sample of humans in 1938 and could never be replicated in humans let alone in cats, and at the time, not based on longer acting insulins like Lantus. Chronic Somogyi rebound is not the same as what we refer to here as a bounce.
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Interesting! I remember the study I read was done to see if it actually was a thing in cats because research had failed to find evidence for it in humans. Funny how the vet calls it the Somoyogi effect vs a bounce. Lack of knowledge I guess.
 
Also: +7.5 we're still at 68. Kinda flat. Going up to Walmart to get him some of the food that he likes; I'm out at this point, only got 2 cans of friskies chicken pate which he despises at this point. Gave him a bit more food, he had a more normal poop this morning but this evening he had another mushy one which was gross.

In good news; about 80 pounds of wood pellets has lasted me 11 weeks for his litter so far. That cost me 16 dollars canadian. I have a sifting litter pan made for wood pellets; it sifts the disintegrated stuff out when I shake it. I do that once a day, has cut down on his litter usage by like 70%. I used to have to buy a 40 lb bag every 5-6 days, and change the entire box every day, 2 at most because after 2 days half was just disintegrated dust. Massive difference in his drinking/peeing since he got on insulin. Nice to see.
 
Jacquie Rand’s study, which I think is the one you are referring to, also had the caveat that cats in the study were on long lasting insulin, started on a reasonable dose, and dose raised safely. We also had a member here who is a vet who admitted they were all trained in vet school that Symogyi was a thing, which is why you will here some still talk about it.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Jacquie Rand’s study, which I think is the one you are referring to, also had the caveat that cats in the study were on long lasting insulin, started on a reasonable dose, and dose raised safely. We also had a member here who is a vet who admitted they were all trained in vet school that Symogyi was a thing, which is why you will here some still talk about it.
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Ahh, that makes sense! Thanks. It's funny because my vet used the phrase Somogoyi phenomenon and had no idea what I was referring to when I said "bouncing". I recently talked to them and they said they'd looked into TR and would support me following it, and that they wouldn't demand fructosamine tests every 3 months (this is what they had told me I'd have to do) as long as I'm testing regularly.

So that is nice. I guess the bounces we see universally in like 90% of cats here involve a different mixture of pathways than the somogoyi effect. Big difference between Sam today (which was caused likely by being consistently lower than normal yesterday throughout the day) and sam when he likely fell to a 30-40 at night or so and rebounded to 450 the next morning.

And yes; it is Jacquie Rand and Kirsten Roomp who were the authors the study in question https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X15588967
 
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