Would you still give insulin?

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countrygal1964

countrygal1964

Member Since 2021
I have a cat that is at least 17 yrs old. Two years ago she suddenly was diabetic. She on insulin twice a day and the diet for it. The insulin amount was dropped more then once and then last year twice her sugar dropped way to low and she went into sugar shock, My other diabetic cat did the same thing later that year. I had her retested every few months and the last time was June this summer. About a month ago my vet told me I could put them all back on dry food so they could graze. 2 weeks ago I took this cat to be checked over because she was doing head/ear/face twitching. Different vet said her ears were loaded with wax. Tested the stuff in her ear to make sure it was just wax and it was. Said she had a bad tooth so gave her an antibiotic shot and then since she was there I told her I wanted her sugar checked. It was 510! Took away the dry food and put her back on canned food 3 times a day only like she always had. Took her back today because she needed a recheck (twitching still happening) and her sugar is now 147. I'm thinking she doesn't need anymore insulin but he says keep her on it. Her daughters sugar was checked today (she was diabetic too and off insulin) is 247 and he doesn't want her put back on insulin. Am I crazy for thinking something is wrong? Shouldn't the cat with 247 sugar be put back on insulin and the other one off? I swear I don't know who to believe anymore. Vet didn't say anything more about the twitching so I don't know what to do. I'm thinking about leaving her off insulin for a few days and see what happens. If the twitching stops then I stop the insulin all together. I am so afraid she will go into sugar shock and was just lucky it happened at early evening both times. What happens if it happens during the night while I'm in bed and I don't see her? I have lost faith in medicine. Think it's just all a guessing game.
 
countrygal1964 said:
I have a cat that is at least 17 yrs old. Two years ago she suddenly was diabetic. She on insulin twice a day and the diet for it. The insulin amount was dropped more then once and then last year twice her sugar dropped way to low and she went into sugar shock, My other diabetic cat did the same thing later that year. I had her retested every few months and the last time was June this summer. About a month ago my vet told me I could put them all back on dry food so they could graze. 2 weeks ago I took this cat to be checked over because she was doing head/ear/face twitching. Different vet said her ears were loaded with wax. Tested the stuff in her ear to make sure it was just wax and it was. Said she had a bad tooth so gave her an antibiotic shot and then since she was there I told her I wanted her sugar checked. It was 510! Took away the dry food and put her back on canned food 3 times a day only like she always had. Took her back today because she needed a recheck (twitching still happening) and her sugar is now 147. I'm thinking she doesn't need anymore insulin but he says keep her on it. Her daughters sugar was checked today (she was diabetic too and off insulin) is 247 and he doesn't want her put back on insulin. Am I crazy for thinking something is wrong? Shouldn't the cat with 247 sugar be put back on insulin and the other one off? I swear I don't know who to believe anymore. Vet didn't say anything more about the twitching so I don't know what to do. I'm thinking about leaving her off insulin for a few days and see what happens. If the twitching stops then I stop the insulin all together. I am so afraid she will go into sugar shock and was just lucky it happened at early evening both times. What happens if it happens during the night while I'm in bed and I don't see her? I have lost faith in medicine. Think it's just all a guessing game.
Click to expand...
What type of insulin & what dose?
 
Are you only getting the blood glucose checked every few months at the vet or are you doing some checks your self?
The blood glucose can vary every day and several times a day.
We need more information before we can help you.
As Christine asked..can you tell us the dose and the type of insulin please?
How often are you feeding ?
Going off insulin if your kitty needs it can be very risky so I think you need to establish what the blood glucose is doing every day before just stopping the insulin…..the risk of stopping is that ketones develop and that can be dangerous..
Are you willing to think about home testing the blood glucose?
It is possible that the twitching is from low blood glucose but unless you test, you won’t know.
Do you give some honey to Karl when the twitching starts?
Do you have high carb food at home in case of low numbers?
It’s only a guessing game if you are not home testing the blood glucose. If you home-test there will be no guessing at all. We can help you if we can see some blood glucose data.
 
She has Prozinc insulin and 1 unit once a day. I went through this same thing with her last time. Sugar level went to what it is. Told to keep her on it. A few weeks later her sugar dropped. Gave her treats with corn syrup on them. She fought me too much to get the syrup down her. He said to drop it 1/2 a unit. Few weeks later same thing but worse. I had to give her treats with syrup 3 different times and it was at night during a giant rain/flooding storm so no going to the hospital if I had to. It's 1 1/2 hours away. Then I was told to stop it all together. Then last summer the fill in doc saw my other cat who was diabetic with a Thryoid problem but was off insulin at the time for a long time because her sugars were good. Sugar was going up just a tad and She put her back on the Prozinc 1/2 unit once a day to be on the save side until the main vet got back the next week. 3 days later I rushed her to the hospital and with her being upset her sugar was really low. I knew then that it was her sugar being the problem but with her thyroid I wasn't sure which. Then when I saw the main doc on Monday he said no more which I had already taken upon myself not to give her when I brought her home from the hospital because the ER doc wouldn't tell me what to do because he wasn't treating her and she was stable. Then when I saw the main doc on Monday he said no more. I ended up throwing out a bottle of insulin that I paid $130 for. I don't mind spending money for medicine that they need but I think I should have been reimbursed for it. That's why I don't understand it this time. I've had 3 cats being diabetic. One only made it 11 months and suffered because the old place did not know what to do but I didn't find that out until leaving. It haunts me still to this day. I had these two cats on a diabetic feeding 9Canned food only 3 times a day) but my other cat who also has a thyroid problem was dropping to much weight a month ago. All blood work said she was fine, so I was told to start feeding dry food 24/7 (The other cat could have it too) and I think that is why her sugar shot up so high. It stayed normal all that time off insulin until I let them eat dry food again. Put her back on the only canned 3 times a day feeding, and her sugar went back to normal. I'm thinking they are not getting that part. I have also had 3 different things told to me by 3 different vets at this place and two got mad at me because I did what the other one told me to do with their feeding in the beginning, but you have to see whoever is available at the time. Her twitching is all the time unless she is sleeping. They said might be neurological too and I just had an awful time with my other cat who started having seizures. Ended up taking her to the hospital where they did an MRI and spinal tap to find out why and she just has a seizure problem but what a mess that was. Never got a good answer from my vet place except if I wanted to put her down they wouldn't judge me. They thought for sure she had a brain tumor. Never thought it could just be a seizure problem. They referred me to a Neurologist who owns his own place and that was a nightmare. Didn't get done there. Only good place was the hospital which I should have just taken her when it all started but they told me not to. Take her to the other place because they were better. I left the other vet place 2 years ago thinking the new place would be better but they're not and I'm not changing because they all are the same. I thought of doing home sugar testing but if I start that then when it's time for her insulin she won't let me. I've learned to do a lot to give different meds and such but there is a limit on what they will let me do without fighting me. In the past they always had me bring her back every two weeks until the sugar levels stayed at one level but no mention this time. I have gone through so much with my cats last 2 years at two different vet places and I just don't trust any of them anymore. I have decided to cut back to 1/2 unit once a day and go from there. I will call myself next week to get her in to recheck it and see where it is at. Not sure I wrote it so it can be understood but I am so brain tired I can't think anymore.
 
countrygal1964 said:
I have a cat that is at least 17 yrs old. Two years ago she suddenly was diabetic. She on insulin twice a day and the diet for it. The insulin amount was dropped more then once and then last year twice her sugar dropped way to low and she went into sugar shock, My other diabetic cat did the same thing later that year. I had her retested every few months and the last time was June this summer. About a month ago my vet told me I could put them all back on dry food so they could graze. 2 weeks ago I took this cat to be checked over because she was doing head/ear/face twitching. Different vet said her ears were loaded with wax. Tested the stuff in her ear to make sure it was just wax and it was. Said she had a bad tooth so gave her an antibiotic shot and then since she was there I told her I wanted her sugar checked. It was 510! Took away the dry food and put her back on canned food 3 times a day only like she always had. Took her back today because she needed a recheck (twitching still happening) and her sugar is now 147. I'm thinking she doesn't need anymore insulin but he says keep her on it. Her daughters sugar was checked today (she was diabetic too and off insulin) is 247 and he doesn't want her put back on insulin. Am I crazy for thinking something is wrong? Shouldn't the cat with 247 sugar be put back on insulin and the other one off? I swear I don't know who to believe anymore. Vet didn't say anything more about the twitching so I don't know what to do. I'm thinking about leaving her off insulin for a few days and see what happens. If the twitching stops then I stop the insulin all together. I am so afraid she will go into sugar shock and was just lucky it happened at early evening both times. What happens if it happens during the night while I'm in bed and I don't see her? I have lost faith in medicine. Think it's just all a guessing game.
Click to expand...
I can tag a prozinc user for you but without you testing at home and setting up a spreadsheet I don't know if Melissa can give you any advice
@FrostD
 
countrygal1964 said:
She has Prozinc insulin and 1 unit once a day. I went through this same thing with her last time. Sugar level went to what it is. Told to keep her on it. A few weeks later her sugar dropped. Gave her treats with corn syrup on them. She fought me too much to get the syrup down her. He said to drop it 1/2 a unit. Few weeks later same thing but worse. I had to give her treats with syrup 3 different times and it was at night during a giant rain/flooding storm so no going to the hospital if I had to. It's 1 1/2 hours away. Then I was told to stop it all together. Then last summer the fill in doc saw my other cat who was diabetic with a Thryoid problem but was off insulin at the time for a long time because her sugars were good. Sugar was going up just a tad and She put her back on the Prozinc 1/2 unit once a day to be on the save side until the main vet got back the next week. 3 days later I rushed her to the hospital and with her being upset her sugar was really low. I knew then that it was her sugar being the problem but with her thyroid I wasn't sure which. Then when I saw the main doc on Monday he said no more which I had already taken upon myself not to give her when I brought her home from the hospital because the ER doc wouldn't tell me what to do because he wasn't treating her and she was stable. Then when I saw the main doc on Monday he said no more. I ended up throwing out a bottle of insulin that I paid $130 for. I don't mind spending money for medicine that they need but I think I should have been reimbursed for it. That's why I don't understand it this time. I've had 3 cats being diabetic. One only made it 11 months and suffered because the old place did not know what to do but I didn't find that out until leaving. It haunts me still to this day. I had these two cats on a diabetic feeding 9Canned food only 3 times a day) but my other cat who also has a thyroid problem was dropping to much weight a month ago. All blood work said she was fine, so I was told to start feeding dry food 24/7 (The other cat could have it too) and I think that is why her sugar shot up so high. It stayed normal all that time off insulin until I let them eat dry food again. Put her back on the only canned 3 times a day feeding, and her sugar went back to normal. I'm thinking they are not getting that part. I have also had 3 different things told to me by 3 different vets at this place and two got mad at me because I did what the other one told me to do with their feeding in the beginning, but you have to see whoever is available at the time. Her twitching is all the time unless she is sleeping. They said might be neurological too and I just had an awful time with my other cat who started having seizures. Ended up taking her to the hospital where they did an MRI and spinal tap to find out why and she just has a seizure problem but what a mess that was. Never got a good answer from my vet place except if I wanted to put her down they wouldn't judge me. They thought for sure she had a brain tumor. Never thought it could just be a seizure problem. They referred me to a Neurologist who owns his own place and that was a nightmare. Didn't get done there. Only good place was the hospital which I should have just taken her when it all started but they told me not to. Take her to the other place because they were better. I left the other vet place 2 years ago thinking the new place would be better but they're not and I'm not changing because they all are the same. I thought of doing home sugar testing but if I start that then when it's time for her insulin she won't let me. I've learned to do a lot to give different meds and such but there is a limit on what they will let me do without fighting me. In the past they always had me bring her back every two weeks until the sugar levels stayed at one level but no mention this time. I have gone through so much with my cats last 2 years at two different vet places and I just don't trust any of them anymore. I have decided to cut back to 1/2 unit once a day and go from there. I will call myself next week to get her in to recheck it and see where it is at. Not sure I wrote it so it can be understood but I am so brain tired I can't think anymore.
Click to expand...
@FrostD
 
I can't advise too much on dose without any BG data. The 147 is borderline, I'd try retesting at home to see if that's perhaps just the stress of being at the vet. If still elevated, I'd probably be giving 0.25U - but also home testing to keep her safe. My guess is she might go back into remission pretty quickly.

The 247 probably does need insulin, but again I'd double check at home. 247 is a little more than we usually see just from stress. Since low carb diet, we'd start at 0.5U and go from there.
 
FrostD said:
I can't advise too much on dose without any BG data. The 147 is borderline, I'd try retesting at home to see if that's perhaps just the stress of being at the vet. If still elevated, I'd probably be giving 0.25U - but also home testing to keep her safe. My guess is she might go back into remission pretty quickly.

The 247 probably does need insulin, but again I'd double check at home. 247 is a little more than we usually see just from stress. Since low carb diet, we'd start at 0.5U and go from there.
Click to expand...
They have always told me anything under 200 is good and they don't really want to do insulin until they reach 300 because anything else could just be stress from the visit. I'm just so confused at this point but I learned a lot last week with my other cat who started having seizures 2nd week in September. They were not even close to being right with her. Maybe I can look into buying an at home test kit. I know Amazon sells them. I've learned how to do things I never thought I could do for them. I just think the one with 247 would need insulin and not the 147. Thank you for trying to help me. At least I don't feel crazy
 
If you're in the US you can get the ReliOn meter, strips, and lancets for pretty cheap, about $30 for the whole trip.

I'm leaning the 247 kitty does need insulin ; if she is diabetic/relapsed I'd hate to keep waiting for numbers to climb. The sooner you can catch it, the better the results
 
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Link for setting up our spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Here is a meter from Walmart most members use , it's a human meter that's what our numbers are based on anyway. It's 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

Test strips. 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197


Home testing
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
FrostD said:
If you're in the US you can get the ReliOn meter, strips, and lancets for pretty cheap, about $30 for the whole trip.

I'm leaning the 247 kitty does need insulin ; if she is diabetic/relapsed I'd hate to keep waiting for numbers to climb. The sooner you can catch it, the better the results
Click to expand...
Both cats sugar was good until they told me to start giving dry food again because of the one cats weight loss. They are both back on the diabetic diet and the sugar should go down fast. They said no insulin for her. So, I'm just going to take matters into my hands like I had to do last summer because the ER doctor wouldn't help me and do things the way I think they need to be done. I don't ever get to Walmart so I will buy them on Amazon. I'm sure I can find those same ones there.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Link for setting up our spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
Click to expand...
I will look for it and fill it out. Never even saw it.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here is a meter from Walmart most members use , it's a human meter that's what our numbers are based on anyway. It's 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

Test strips. 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197


Home testing
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this. My problem with doing it was I can't hold and prick. Came up with the idea of putting them in their carrier and I can do it then. They have a door on the top. They can't get away from me in there.
 
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