The troubles with Evey

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Pirogi

Member Since 2022
Hi all,

Here's a quick rundown of what I've typed up, sorry it's a lot to read, but I'm grateful for any advice.
TLDR: Evey became diabetic at age 9 last year. She’s supposed to lose about 2.5lbs, but she’s maintaining. Evey regularly urinates outside her box. Currently it’s likely she is constipated to some degree. The vet hasn’t been that helpful. Please help me, I love my cat and I am at my wits end.


I’ve been having some difficulties with my diabetic cat Evey. She was diagnosed in November of 2021 at age 9. When we first brought her into the vet her glucose levels were sitting at 16.4. We’ve gotten her glucose levels under control since then, she has a unit of Lantus in the morning, and 2 units at night.

One problem we’ve been having with Evey is she’s supposed to be losing weight with her current diet. which is Purina DM wet and dry (I’ve read folks aren’t the biggest fans of that here.)

She gets half a can of wet food a day and a quarter cup of dry food. She’s fed wet food by either myself or my spouse at 9am and 9pm, her dry food is distributed by an auto feeder at 1pm, 5pm, 1am, and 5am. Reason being when we fed her only twice a day she would be crying for food in the afternoons, evening, and overnight. The last few days I’ve been giving her a teaspoon of plain pumpkin puree day to help her with constipation.

When we initially brought Evey into the vet she weighed 10.2lbs(4.46kg), the vet wanted her at 7.7lbs(3.48kg.) I’d say Evey’s on the smaller side for a cat for reference. Since her initial diabetes diagnosis we’ve probably brought Evey into the vet 4 or 5 times. When weighed at the vet she’s still around 10.2lbs, the vet seems happy that Evey’s maintaining and doesn’t suggest altering her diet.

The second problem is she urinates frequently outside her box, occasionally defecates outside of it too. She has sporadic periods of doing this. Initially giving her insulin helped her. The next time she had a period of urinating outside the box she had a bacterial infection, I’m pretty sure it was Leptospirosis. It’s either extremely rare or not found in our province, and Evey’s strictly an indoor cat. We figured she caught it from our shoes and since then have moved any shoes into a closet.

Last time he took her to the vet in June, the vet suspected a UTI, but after testing Evey was found perfectly healthy other than the diabetes. The vet figures it’s possibly a behavioral issue.

There’s been many periods of her urinating for a few days straight outside the box, then she uses her box normally for a couple weeks, or a month, then repeat. Most times we can’t seem to find any reason why she’s doing it.
I’ll mention our go to when she urinates outside her box is to check her glucose levels, which showed she’s in a healthy range.

Now she’s urinating a lot outside of her box regularly, I’m suspecting constipation/hard feces. She normally defecates daily still, but it’s just two small circular balls. When she’s in her box it looks like she’s straining to defecate. Brining it up with the vet she recommended PEG powder, when we gave it to Evey threw up her whole meal. That brought me to the pumpkin puree, today is the fourth day I’ve given it to her. It seemed like it was helping at first she was using her box and her feces looked like her old normal. But then 2 days ago she’s back to urinating outside her box, she still defecates in it though, but her feces are small little balls again.

I don’t know if anyone here has had a similar experience or has any suggestions to help us. My thoughts currently are removing dry food from her diet, or reducing the amount of it, or finding a lower carb dry food so Evey doesn’t howl throughout the day and night for food. We’re also thinking it would be a good idea to get full blood-work done to make sure there’s no cancers or organ issues.

My spouse and I love Evey very much, it hurts to know she’s not feeling well, and we’re also so mentally exhausted with all the urine and lack of answers. It’s soaked through the floor and dripped into the basement many times, the carpeting is going to need replacing entirely. We’re at our wits end, whenever we go to the vet it we get she’s healthy other than diabetes and a bill.

Thank you so much to whoever reads through this whole thing.
 
Hi there are a lot of experienced members here that I will tag for you
First we don't give a different dose in the AM and PM
Lantus likes consistency.
Are you home testing Evey ?
We suggest using a human meter that's what our numbers are based on
If it wasn't for the members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today
I have to say they know more than some vets know
There is nothing really special about prescription cat food
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Pates or Friskies
We like to stay with 6% carbs or less
I will give you a link to our food chart, I think we have one for members they live in Canada. I see that's where you live

We feed the bigger meal at AMPS ( AM Pre Shot) You need to withhold food 2 hours prior to testing her, Same goes for the PMPS cycle
We feed the bigger meal after you test her then smaller meals @+2 ( 2hours after testing her BG then maybe @+4 ( 4 hours after you gave her her morning insulin
Same goes for the night cycle
About the Purina DM wet and Dry

Found this question asked in the Chewy site about the Dry DM
What is the % carbohydrate?
Answer by • Mar 30, 2022
This formula has a maximum carbohydrate content of 18.0%.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to FDMB.

I have a couple of thoughts...

First, if there's any way you can eliminate the dry food that will be a bonus on several counts. The "prescription" diabetes foods have nothing in them that in any way helps with feline diabetes. In fact, there was a class action suit against the pet food manufacturers about the use of "prescription" in their labeling. They lost. The DM dry is crazy high in carbohydrates. In essence, you're feeding your diabetic cat cookies. By transitioning Evey to a completely canned food diet, you will be giving her food that is nutritionally appropriate for a diabetic. The DM is not a particularly high quality food given the cost. You could be feeding your cat a higher quality, low carbohydrate cat food for the same price. One of the other issues with dry food is that, well.... it's dry. Cats have a limited thirst drive. Canned food has a much higher moisture content. From what you're saying about Evey's being constipated, getting more moisture into her diet may help. Routinely adding water to her canned food may help.

This is a link to a chart that lists the nutritional information on food available in Canada. We consider low carb to be under 10% carb. Most of the members here tend to feed their cats foods that are about 5% give or take. There may be more foods available than are on this list but it's a start.

The other consideration is that something like Miralax may help with constipation. It draws water into the colon. I'm guessing you're in Canada. Miralax goes by another name and of course, I'm not remembering what it's called.

Lantus tends to work best if you are giving the same dose at AM and PM. Lantus acts like a depot drug -- a very small amount is stored in the fat tissue. Over the course of the 12 hour cycle, the microcrystals begin to dissolve. This depot is what gives Lantus its long duration. However, when you change a dose, it has an effect of the depot. By dosing differing amounts at each shot time, the depot never stabilizes. There is information on Lantus and about dosing methods on the Lantus board in the sticky notes at the top of the board. You may find that information helpful

If you were testing Evey's urine, does that mean you are not testing her blood glucose? If not, we'd encourage you to learn how to home test. Without testing, you have no idea if the dose of insulin is sufficient. It also means that you have no way to know the effectiveness of the dose and if Evey's numbers are in a safe range. Home testing is the best way to keep your kitty safe. If her numbers have been running high, there's a chance she may have diabetic neuropathy which may make it hard for her to climb in and out of her box -- hence her urinating outside of the box. (Or she could have some arthritis.) We have lots of information on home testing if you want to get started.

If you're already home testing, I'd encourage you to set up a spreadsheet. This post on helping us to help you has the basic information on how to get started. There's information on how to set up and use our spreadsheet, how to set up a signature so we don't keep plaguing you with the same questions, how to put together a hypo kit and other general information that may prove helpful.

Please let us know if you have more questions. The members here are very generous with their knowledge and their time. We're here to help.
 
The Wet DM
What is carbohydrate level per can?
Answer by • Aug 26, 2021
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.14 grams per 100 kilocalories. It has a carbohydrate percentage of 13.56% on a dry matter basis.

Both are too high for diabetic kitties


If you can set up what we call our signature that would be helpful
Information about Evey

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine tap on the tap up top and tap on 2020 you will see more tests because on 2022 tab there isn't much because Tyler is in remission now

We also use a spreadsheet to track our cat's BG numbers to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping and in case you need any advice , if you are interested in setting one up just ask , we have a member who will be happy to do it for you


We don't increase insulin by whole units, we increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time so you don't skip over a good dose for Evey
Are you using U-100 syringes with the half unit markings, it's easier when you have to adjust the dose by 0.25 units.
They come in half unit increments but still make it easier when adjusting by 0.25 units


We don't base how much insulin we give going by the Pre Shots (AMPS)
or the PMPS we base the dose of insulin on how low the BG is dropping



Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
You can read about Lantus here , and the 2 dosing methods that you would choose to follow, they will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed
Be right back

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Read all the yellow stickys
 
Hi there are a lot of experienced members here that I will tag for you
First we don't give a different dose in the AM and PM
Lantus likes consistency.
Are you home testing Evey ?
We suggest using a human meter that's what our numbers are based on
If it wasn't for the members here Tyler wouldn't be in remission today
I have to say they know more than some vets know
There is nothing really special about prescription cat food
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Pates or Friskies
We like to stay with 6% carbs or less
I will give you a link to our food chart, I think we have one for members they live in Canada. I see that's where you live

We feed the bigger meal at AMPS ( AM Pre Shot) You need to withhold food 2 hours prior to testing her, Same goes for the PMPS cycle
We feed the bigger meal after you test her then smaller meals @+2 ( 2hours after testing her BG then maybe @+4 ( 4 hours after you gave her her morning insulin
Same goes for the night cycle

About the Purina DM wet and Dry
Found this question asked in the Chewy site about the wet DM

I had no idea about that with Lantus, the amount we’re currently giving is on our vets instructions. Evey originally was on 2 units in the morning and 2 units at night. Her glucose levels in the morning are not as high than at night.

We do have a meter for Evey to test her blood. Our vet doesn’t ask us to test, other than do an occasional curve. The next curve they want is in December. We check her blood once in a while, usually when she’s not acting herself. That amounts to maybe a couple times a month twice a day.

I was perusing the food charts here the other day. It seems like Purina DM wet isn’t too terrible, but when I looked over the dry I didn’t like the 13% carbs. I think I’m going to find something better for Evey.

Thank you for your insight, it’s already a big help.
 
Reading through your story I think there is a lot we can do to help you.

Can you tell me….are you hometesting the blood glucose? if not I would highly recommend you do so. HERE is a link to hometesting.

I would also recommend you set up a spreadsheet so that we can see the zbG data and can help you with dosing, and a signature to tell us all about Evey. This will appear below all your posts. Also I would recommend strongly setting up a hypo kit if you have not already done so
HELP US HELP YOU
This link has the spreadsheet , signature and hypo kit and other information for new members.

Once you are home testing and have the spreadsheet up and running and we can see the data, I would recommend you swap over to a low carb diet as Diane has mentioned. But don’t do this until you are testing the BGs as they could drop a lot by swapping to a low carb diet.

Lantus is a depot insulin and has best results if the same dose is given both night and morning.
Information about the DEPOT

In relation to the urination outside the box and no UTI being found, I would google FLUTD and see if Evey has those symptoms.
 
We check her blood once in a while, usually when she’s not acting herself. That amounts to maybe a couple times a month twice a day.
You need to be testing her every day before giving any insulin to see if the BG is a safe number to shoot and like I mentioned above you need to get some additional tests in during each cycle to see how the insulin is working and how low she's dropping
 
About our spreadsheet
The spreadsheet is easier than it looks we track our cats BG to see how the insulin is working and how low she's dropping so we can follow along in case you need help with dosing

Just some info about it look at mine at the end of my signature it says Tyler's spreadsheet to get a look at it, you can look at anyone's spreadsheet

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers


If you want to try and set it up here the link, if you need help just ask we have a member who will be glad to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Welcome to FDMB.

I have a couple of thoughts...

First, if there's any way you can eliminate the dry food that will be a bonus on several counts. The "prescription" diabetes foods have nothing in them that in any way helps with feline diabetes. In fact, there was a class action suit against the pet food manufacturers about the use of "prescription" in their labeling. They lost. The DM dry is crazy high in carbohydrates. In essence, you're feeding your diabetic cat cookies. By transitioning Evey to a completely canned food diet, you will be giving her food that is nutritionally appropriate for a diabetic. The DM is not a particularly high quality food given the cost. You could be feeding your cat a higher quality, low carbohydrate cat food for the same price. One of the other issues with dry food is that, well.... it's dry. Cats have a limited thirst drive. Canned food has a much higher moisture content. From what you're saying about Evey's being constipated, getting more moisture into her diet may help. Routinely adding water to her canned food may help.

This is a link to a chart that lists the nutritional information on food available in Canada. We consider low carb to be under 10% carb. Most of the members here tend to feed their cats foods that are about 5% give or take. There may be more foods available than are on this list but it's a start.

The other consideration is that something like Miralax may help with constipation. It draws water into the colon. I'm guessing you're in Canada. Miralax goes by another name and of course, I'm not remembering what it's called.

Lantus tends to work best if you are giving the same dose at AM and PM. Lantus acts like a depot drug -- a very small amount is stored in the fat tissue. Over the course of the 12 hour cycle, the microcrystals begin to dissolve. This depot is what gives Lantus its long duration. However, when you change a dose, it has an effect of the depot. By dosing differing amounts at each shot time, the depot never stabilizes. There is information on Lantus and about dosing methods on the Lantus board in the sticky notes at the top of the board. You may find that information helpful

If you were testing Evey's urine, does that mean you are not testing her blood glucose? If not, we'd encourage you to learn how to home test. Without testing, you have no idea if the dose of insulin is sufficient. It also means that you have no way to know the effectiveness of the dose and if Evey's numbers are in a safe range. Home testing is the best way to keep your kitty safe. If her numbers have been running high, there's a chance she may have diabetic neuropathy which may make it hard for her to climb in and out of her box -- hence her urinating outside of the box. (Or she could have some arthritis.) We have lots of information on home testing if you want to get started.

If you're already home testing, I'd encourage you to set up a spreadsheet. This post on helping us to help you has the basic information on how to get started. There's information on how to set up and use our spreadsheet, how to set up a signature so we don't keep plaguing you with the same questions, how to put together a hypo kit and other general information that may prove helpful.

Please let us know if you have more questions. The members here are very generous with their knowledge and their time. We're here to help.

I think it’s possible to eliminate dry food for her.

We do occasional home testing, but I think we’re going to be making it a daily thing especially with changing her diet and Lantus units. The urine test was only done at the vets a while back to check for a UTI.

What I’m thinking so far here with the posts coming in is: If we can get rid of the dry food or at least find a lower carb dry food hopefully a single unit of Lantus in the morning and again at night might be sufficient for Evey.

Thank you for helping
 
The Wet DM
What is carbohydrate level per can?
Answer by • Aug 26, 2021
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.14 grams per 100 kilocalories. It has a carbohydrate percentage of 13.56% on a dry matter basis.

Both are too high for diabetic kitties


If you can set up what we call our signature that would be helpful
Information about Evey

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine tap on the tap up top and tap on 2020 you will see more tests because on 2022 tab there isn't much because Tyler is in remission now

We also use a spreadsheet to track our cat's BG numbers to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping and in case you need any advice , if you are interested in setting one up just ask , we have a member who will be happy to do it for you


We don't increase insulin by whole units, we increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time so you don't skip over a good dose for Evey
Are you using U-100 syringes with the half unit markings, it's easier when you have to adjust the dose by 0.25 units.
They come in half unit increments but still make it easier when adjusting by 0.25 units


We don't base how much insulin we give going by the Pre Shots (AMPS)
or the PMPS we base the dose of insulin on how low the BG is dropping



Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
You can read about Lantus here , and the 2 dosing methods that you would choose to follow, they will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed
Be right back

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Read all the yellow stickys

I’ll get a signature and spreadsheet sorted out tomorrow.

Currently we have a pen to administer Insulin for Evey that does 1 unit increments. We’ll have to pick up some needles for her.

I’m learning a lot here and have some reading to do
:cat:
 
I think it’s possible to eliminate dry food for her.

We do occasional home testing, but I think we’re going to be making it a daily thing especially with changing her diet and Lantus units. The urine test was only done at the vets a while back to check for a UTI.

What I’m thinking so far here with the posts coming in is: If we can get rid of the dry food or at least find a lower carb dry food hopefully a single unit of Lantus in the morning and again at night might be sufficient for Evey.

Thank you for helping
Please make sure you are home testing before you change her diet. Her #s will come down quite a bit once you eliminate the dry food.
 
Reading through your story I think there is a lot we can do to help you.

Can you tell me….are you hometesting the blood glucose? if not I would highly recommend you do so. HERE is a link to hometesting.

I would also recommend you set up a spreadsheet so that we can see the zbG data and can help you with dosing, and a signature to tell us all about Evey. This will appear below all your posts. Also I would recommend strongly setting up a hypo kit if you have not already done so
HELP US HELP YOU
This link has the spreadsheet , signature and hypo kit and other information for new members.

Once you are home testing and have the spreadsheet up and running and we can see the data, I would recommend you swap over to a low carb diet as Diane has mentioned. But don’t do this until you are testing the BGs as they could drop a lot by swapping to a low carb diet.

Lantus is a depot insulin and has best results if the same dose is given both night and morning.
Information about the DEPOT

In relation to the urination outside the box and no UTI being found, I would google FLUTD and see if Evey has those symptoms.

We’re going to start regular home testing now. We did it only a few times a month before.

Spreadsheets and signatures and hypo kit I’ll get on tomorrow.

I looked up FLUTD the only symptom she has from the list is urinating outside of her litter box.

Thank you for helping!
 
About our spreadsheet
The spreadsheet is easier than it looks we track our cats BG to see how the insulin is working and how low she's dropping so we can follow along in case you need help with dosing

Just some info about it look at mine at the end of my signature it says Tyler's spreadsheet to get a look at it, you can look at anyone's spreadsheet

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers


If you want to try and set it up here the link, if you need help just ask we have a member who will be glad to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

This sounds totally do-able.
 
I’ll get a signature and spreadsheet sorted out tomorrow.

Currently we have a pen to administer Insulin for Evey that does 1 unit increments. We’ll have to pick up some needles for her.

I’m learning a lot here and have some reading to do
:cat:
Just found this posted by one of our members
Check out your local pharmacy for the BD Ultrafine II syringes (purple and yellow box). Those are U100 syringes. If you have a Costco near you, check them out. I found it pays to ask around. Again Safeway pharmacy (maybe Sobey's their owner?) had the best prices near me.
 
Currently we have a pen to administer Insulin for Evey that does 1 unit increments. We’ll have to pick up some needles for her.
The syringes you need for Lantus insulin are U100 3/10 30 or 31 gauge 6 or 8mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
There are several brands available. Just make sure they are the ones I have listed above.
 
, I’m suspecting constipation/hard feces. She normally defecates daily
If you think she is constipated
Restoralax or clearlax in Canada are the same as Miralax in the US.
Usual starting dose is 1/8tsp twice a day (and the more water you can get into him, the better. It also helps the Miralax work better)
It's tasteless just mix it up really good in the wet food

A lot of members give egg yolk powder for constipation

Found this posted by one of our members
So many benefits! Scroll to the bottom of this link and read about it! I buy from FoodFurLife - https://www.foodfurlife.com/store/p9/EZ_Egg_Yolk.html#/

You can also make your own - https://www.foodfurlife.com/make-homemade-dried-egg-yolk-powder.html#/

I don't know anything about it , if you are interested you can start a new post and ask about it
 
Last edited:
bd6mmfinal_1024x1024.jpg
 
I’ll get a signature and spreadsheet sorted out tomorrow.

Currently we have a pen to administer Insulin for Evey that does 1 unit increments. We’ll have to pick up some needles for her.

I’m learning a lot here and have some reading to do
:cat:

Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006
 
I would also check around for a cleaning solution that will eradicate the urine smell. Once a cat has urinated on a spot, given the sensitivity of their noses, they will return to that spot repeatedly. Puppy pee pads will also help to prevent her from further dousing your carpet.

I'm not sure why Diana posted about using egg yolk powder. It's typically used for hairballs. However, if you are wanting to try a raw diet, EZ Complete (FoodFurLife) makes a pre-mix. This is a powered product that you add to raw food to ensure that it is nutritionally complete since cats need certain supplements to the protein component of whatever it is you're feeding your cat. They do ship to Canada although the shipping rates are high. I'm tagging one of our members who may be familiar with resources in Canada. (@Wendy&Neko)
 
If you think she is constipated
Restoralax or clearlax in Canada are the same as Miralax in the US.
Usual starting dose is 1/8tsp twice a day (and the more water you can get into him, the better. It also helps the Miralax work better)
It's tasteless just mix it up really good in the wet food

A lot of members give egg yolk powder for constipation

Found this posted by one of our members
So many benefits! Scroll to the bottom of this link and read about it! I buy from FoodFurLife - https://www.foodfurlife.com/store/p9/EZ_Egg_Yolk.html#/

You can also make your own - https://www.foodfurlife.com/make-homemade-dried-egg-yolk-powder.html#/

I don't know anything about it , if you are interested you can start a new post and ask about it

We bought Evey an off brand Resoralax. She has a sensitive stomach so we only gave her about a 1/16 of teaspoon with her food. She threw up everything within about 10 minutes of eating.
 
I would also check around for a cleaning solution that will eradicate the urine smell. Once a cat has urinated on a spot, given the sensitivity of their noses, they will return to that spot repeatedly. Puppy pee pads will also help to prevent her from further dousing your carpet.

I'm not sure why Diana posted about using egg yolk powder. It's typically used for hairballs. However, if you are wanting to try a raw diet, EZ Complete (FoodFurLife) makes a pre-mix. This is a powered product that you add to raw food to ensure that it is nutritionally complete since cats need certain supplements to the protein component of whatever it is you're feeding your cat. They do ship to Canada although the shipping rates are high. I'm tagging one of our members who may be familiar with resources in Canada. (@Wendy&Neko)

Pee pads sound like a great idea until Evey’s feeling well again. I’ll take a look at the link as well.
 
Last edited:
For constipation, there is a great website for you: https://www.felineconstipation.org/ Sorry the PEG or Restoralax didn't work for you. Definitely adding water to food is a good start. Feeding raw food can also help, as raw poops are smaller thinner. I used EZ Complete mentioned above. Shipping price wasn't bad, but the cost of the product was higher than some others. For a while I used TC Feline, which is made in BC. Might be best to start with some premanufactured raw products, just to see if she likes it. There are many good brands in Canada, different ones depending where you live.

Most of us giving Lantus to cats in Canada use either cartridges or vials instead of pens. The cartridges are like pen refills, cost less, and less plastic waste. You can use pen until they are finished though.

As for the litter box, I have some idea. First, pee pads are great if she's going around the box. You can buy washable ones too. A couple questions. When is the last time you replaced the litter box? Cats have very sensitive noses and diabetic cats can pee more, making the plastic stink. A new litter box might help. Definitely do not use a covered box which holds the smell in even more. You can even buy metal boxes that clean better than the plastic ones. Have you watched her pee? Is she still squatting properly when she pees? My girl had bad arthritis and couldn't squat as much anymore. In that case, a higher sided box could help as long as she can get in.

What type of cat litter are you using? Some are better than others at removing smell. You can also buy something called Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract, either the litter with it in it, or the powder you add yourself to existing litter.
 
For constipation, there is a great website for you: https://www.felineconstipation.org/ Sorry the PEG or Restoralax didn't work for you. Definitely adding water to food is a good start. Feeding raw food can also help, as raw poops are smaller thinner. I used EZ Complete mentioned above. Shipping price wasn't bad, but the cost of the product was higher than some others. For a while I used TC Feline, which is made in BC. Might be best to start with some premanufactured raw products, just to see if she likes it. There are many good brands in Canada, different ones depending where you live.

Most of us giving Lantus to cats in Canada use either cartridges or vials instead of pens. The cartridges are like pen refills, cost less, and less plastic waste. You can use pen until they are finished though.

Evey used her litter box last night and this afternoon which is great. I'm gonna write an update on that and a few other things shortly.
We haven't replaced her box for a few years. She has an open box, she does not like covered boxes. We quickly learned that lesson when we first got her lol.
I've watched her use her litter box recently, she squats when she pees and her face looks neutral. Prior to today when she would poop I could see her strain.
We use an unscented non-clumping litter.

Evey used her litter box last night and this afternoon which is great. I'm gonna write an update on that and a few other things shortly.

We haven't replaced her box for a few years. She has an open box, she does not like covered boxes. We quickly learned that lesson when we first got her lol.

I've watched her use her litter box recently, she squats when she pees and her face looks neutral. Prior to today when she would poop I could see her strain.

We use an unscented non-clumping litter.
 
Some updates from today:

Evey used her littler box last night and this afternoon. Her poop isn't her normal, but it's looking a lot better than it has been the last few days.

Some upcoming changes that are going to be made: We're gradually going to be changing Evey's diet. Today we bought her Fancy Feast pate and a bag of Dr. Elsey's clean protein kibble. Today she's still on her Purina DM diet, she's eating a quarter cup of kibble in addition to wet food. I have to look over how much to feed her exactly going on her new diet, but I'd like to cut down her kibble consumption by half and increase the wet food. I'm going to keep giving Evey a teaspoon of pumpkin puree, and I also started adding a tablespoon of water to her wet food.

Her BG reading this morning was 235 which I'm not happy about. I'm not sure if it's the pumpkin puree putting it up or what. The last AMPS reading I have is from a week and a half ago at 135 or so (I have to check my notebook again.)
We have some syringes now for her that I'm going to start using tonight. Since she's currently on 1 unit in the morning and 2 units at night, I'm thinking 1.5 units per shot might be good to aim for to feel out if she needs more or less.

I'm trying to understand what calories and weight is good for Evey. Here's her weight info again for ease of access. She's about 10.2lbs (4.46kg), the vet wanted her at 7.7lbs(3.48kg.) Her diet has her eating 214 calories a day to lose weight, and she has not lost a single pound in 10 months. She's on the smaller side for a cat compared to other moggy cats I've had and seen. I'm thinking of feeding her 200 calories a day to start, but I'm worried if that's too little.
We're also ordering in a scale so we can weigh her properly at home.

Signature and spreadsheet are up. I do have some old glucose curves and some AMPS and PMPS information from earlier in the year, should I add those to my spreadsheet for more reference?

Thanks everyone :bighug:
 
We bought Evey an off brand Resoralax. She has a sensitive stomach so we only gave her about a 1/16 of teaspoon with her food. She threw up everything within about 10 minutes of eating.
My cats also tend to throw up if I mix it with a full meal, not sure why. I typically mix it with warm water and a bit of their favorite canned food to make a "soup" and give it to them about two hours after their breakfast. You would also typically start at 1/8 or 1/4 tsp once a day, then bump up to twice a day if you don't see improvement in a few days. It pulls water into the poop so you have to slowly increase the dose until you see the desired consistency in the box.
 
My cats also tend to throw up if I mix it with a full meal, not sure why. I typically mix it with warm water and a bit of their favorite canned food to make a "soup" and give it to them about two hours after their breakfast. You would also typically start at 1/8 or 1/4 tsp once a day, then bump up to twice a day if you don't see improvement in a few days. It pulls water into the poop so you have to slowly increase the dose until you see the desired consistency in the box.

I'll give this a try if her poops don't improve soon
 
Here is the link for Lantus read all the yellow stickys especially the two dosing methods and see which one if better for you to follow
You don't have to pick one now just read it so you know what it's all about
They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Did you do any more tests after the AMPS today?

I glanced over the two dosing methods earlier today. Reading it again SLGS sounds like the approach I'd like to take. I haven't done anymore tests today, I'm planning on a PMPS still.
 
I glanced over the two dosing methods earlier today. Reading it again SLGS sounds like the approach I'd like to take. I haven't done anymore tests today, I'm planning on a PMPS still.
Ok if you plan to follow SLGS you need to add that to your signature so members know to add it tap on your name above then tap on signature and add it and tap save you can also add it to your spreadsheet where it asks you up top.
I don't want to sound like a broken record but you need to get some tests in after
AMPS and PMPS so we can see how the insulin is working for Evey and how low she's dropping , so you know when to increase or decrease the dose, that's the only way you will find this out. You want to see when her nadir is

Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
If you don't work try and get another test at +2, then +6 both cycles
Next day at +3 then +5 and at night
Throw a +4 and +7 in there sometimes
It's like filling in the pieces of a puzzle
If you don't get more tests in you will miss if she needs a decrease


SLGS
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
@Pirogi
By the way she's a beautiful kitty :cat:

Forgot to tell you if you are feeding any dry food at all you have to follow SLGS
 
Last edited:
Ok if you plan to follow SLGS you need to add that to your signature so members know to add it tap on your name above then tap on signature and add it and tap save you can also add it to your spreadsheet where it asks you up top.
I don't want to sound like a broken record but you need to get some tests in after
AMPS and PMPS so we can see how the insulin is working for Evey and how low she's dropping , so you know when to increase or decrease the dose, that's the only way you will find this out. You want to see when her nadir is

Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
If you don't work try and get another test at +2, then +6 both cycles
Next day at +3 then +5 and at night
Throw a +4 and +7 in there sometimes
It's like filling in the pieces of a puzzle
If you don't get more tests in you will miss if she needs a decrease


SLGS
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
@Pirogi
By the way she's a beautiful kitty :cat:

Forgot to tell you if you are feeding any dry food at all you have to follow SLGS

Ok, we’re going to do a 12 hour curve tomorrow. I was originally thinking 1.5 units a shot, but maybe 1 unit will be better to start with instead.

Overnight tests are the only thing I’m worried about. We’re both self employed and struggle to have a good home and work balance.Weekends are non-existent. A decent nights sleep is important. If it’s gotta get done it will though. Are overnight tests something that is done once in a while? Or does it need to be done a few times a week?

Evey’s super photogenic, but is the most un-ungraceful little fluff ball lol.
 
Why don't you do a 12 hour curve, then decide on what to do with the dose. I would have suggested the 1.5 units per day that you were thinking too. But if you have any other previous data you could put in for the last couple weeks, that'll help too.

As for overnight, you don't have to stay up late every night. I presume you don't need 12 hours of sleep per night. If you can get a test before you go to bed, and it's at least a couple hours after shot time, that will do. My routine was "wash face, brush teeth, poke cat, update spreadsheet and figure if I needed to get a later test, then turn out the light".
 
I'm trying to understand what calories and weight is good for Evey. Here's her weight info again for ease of access. She's about 10.2lbs (4.46kg), the vet wanted her at 7.7lbs(3.48kg.) Her diet has her eating 214 calories a day to lose weight, and she has not lost a single pound in 10 months. She's on the smaller side for a cat compared to other moggy cats I've had and seen. I'm thinking of feeding her 200 calories a day to start, but I'm worried if that's too little.
We're also ordering in a scale so we can weigh her properly at home.

We have been struggling with weight here. From his pre-treatment weight loss, he shot right past ideal into overweight when we allowed him to eat pretty much as much as he wanted.

This is a great resource for weight loss in cats:

https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/

On there, they have a suggested calorie starting point:
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

For Evey, it looks like that's only 175 calories a day for a 7.7lb ideal weight. For Faraday, after following that initial equation, I've had to reduce (by approximately 20%) twice and we're finally starting to see a bit of shift in the right direction. He ideally should be about 12.5lbs, and he's eating approximately 150 calories a day in order to lose weight.
 
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

huh, I thought I read on catinfo that the formula is 20 X ideal weight, so for Hendrick at 11 pounds, 220 calories

funnily enough, now that I run the numbers using the formula you posted, I get 219.6 calories. So I guess both are correct
 
huh, I thought I read on catinfo that the formula is 20 X ideal weight, so for Hendrick at 11 pounds, 220 calories

funnily enough, now that I run the numbers using the formula you posted, I get 219.6 calories. So I guess both are correct

6 of one, half dozen of the other!

There are so many calculators for cat weight online, and since this site seems to point folks to catinfo.org, I just went with the one I found on their page on obesity.
 
We have been struggling with weight here. From his pre-treatment weight loss, he shot right past ideal into overweight when we allowed him to eat pretty much as much as he wanted.

This is a great resource for weight loss in cats:

https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/

On there, they have a suggested calorie starting point:
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

For Evey, it looks like that's only 175 calories a day for a 7.7lb ideal weight. For Faraday, after following that initial equation, I've had to reduce (by approximately 20%) twice and we're finally starting to see a bit of shift in the right direction. He ideally should be about 12.5lbs, and he's eating approximately 150 calories a day in order to lose weight.

I’m glad to hear Faraday is heading in the right direction. Thanks for all the info, I’m going to sort out her calories with it.
 
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