Help w Diabetic & CKD Food Options

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
whoa, I totally missed that reply from EZ complete!

Interesting about the meat choice because I have been using chicken breast, so far, except one time where I used Turkey breast. I have no idea of the fat content but I imagine it is very low right. Chicken breast is high protein and very lean, far as I know.

Google says chicken breast is typically 20% fat. That seems high to me.
Click to expand...
Does that include skin? No way it’s 20 percent fat.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Does that include skin? No way it’s 20 percent fat.
Click to expand...

agreed. For mixing with EZ Complete I am wondering though, if chicken breast is not a good option and I should be using something else? Their website lists several meats but not chicken breast.

Thoughts? Dr. Pierson only uses rabbit or chicken thighs but if you go by what EZ Complete said in their email above, I think chicken thighs would be higher than 8% fat.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
agreed. For mixing with EZ Complete I am wondering though, if chicken breast is not a good option and I should be using something else? Their website lists several meats but not chicken breast.

Thoughts? Dr. Pierson only uses rabbit or chicken thighs but if you go by what EZ Complete said in their email above, I think chicken thighs would be higher than 8% fat.
Click to expand...
I would think chicken breast would be one of the leaner meats. I know I think of chicken breast as fairly lean from a human perspective. Also, cats generally like chicken. I personally hate Turkey (always eat ham at thanksgiving instead :p) because it’s so bland. So idk if I’d be so quick to change it if it’s working. But I know nothing so you may want to ignore me :D

As far as Lauren D (Food Fur Life) , a few things:
1) I can understand that cats need more protein because they process less as they age per some of my Tanya reading. Higher protein would help prevent muscle wasting. However, CKD cats struggle with the higher protein because of inability of their kidneys to process all of the nitrogenous wastes.

3) Other things I have read (all either Dr Lisa or Tanya so maybe I read that in Tanya’s site) say that higher fat is okay, that it’s easier for CKD cats to process. I know Dr Lisa thought fat was just a cheap thing to put in the food, but I don’t recall her saying it is really bad for them either.

3) Who exactly is Lauren D anyway?!? I don’t see anything on their website saying her expertise. I know she says she has multiple cats and all that, but I am just a little skeptical as to whether she’s got the expertise to actually be giving this type of advice. Maybe she does! But what if she’s just a random customer service chick feeling authoritative to give an answer like this. Just sayin’ maybe we should take that with a grain of salt?

Also take what I am sayin’ with a grain of salt too! :smuggrin:
 
George’s Mom said:
Adding these foods! This is exactly what I was hoping to see. There are some choices on here that I have overlooked because I was first focused on the carbs. However, all are under 10% carb and have better phosphorus values. Thanks @FarmKitty!

Protein is shown as ME= Metabolizable Energy and DMB = Dry Matter Basis; all Phosphorus is shown as mg/100 kcals and DMB in ( )
  • BFF play chicken Checkmate
    • Protein 31% ME (DMB 47.7%)
    • Carbs 5% ME
    • Phosphorus 129 (DMB 0.71%)
  • BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
    • Protein 32% (DMB 48.1%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 129 (DMB 0.71%)
  • BFF play chicken cherish
    • Protein 31% (DMB 47.1%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 135 (DMB 0.71%)
  • BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
    • Protein 31% (DMB 47.5%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 136 (DMB 0.71%)
  • BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
    • Protein 32% (DMB 48.5%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 149 (DMB 0.81%)
  • BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
    • Protein 31% (DMB 47.6%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 154 (DMB 0.82%)
  • BFF play chicken & duck destiny
    • Protein 32% (DMB 47.8%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 165 (DMB 0.87%)
  • BFF play chicken & beef best buds
    • Protein 33% (DMB 49.3%)
    • Carbs 5%
    • Phosphorus 171 (DMB 0.91%)
  • Truluxe Glam n’ Punk (lamb & duck)
    • Protein 36.4% (DMB 54%)
    • Carbs 0.6%
    • Phosphorus 180 (DMB 0.93%)
  • Truluxe Steak Fritas (beef & pumpkin)
    • Protein 45.2% (DMB 61.9%)
    • Carbs 5.5%
    • Phosphorus 118 (DMB 0.57%)
  • Goody Stew Shoes (Chicken & Salmon)
    • Protein 28.3% (DMB 43.2%)
    • Carbs 8.5%
    • Phosphorus 132 (DMB 0.71%)
  • Stew's Clues (Turkey, Chicken, & Salmon)
    • Protein 29.9% (DMB 44.6%)
    • Carbs 9.4%
    • Phosphorus 137 (DMB 0.71%)
Click to expand...
Foods_Sorted_By_Phosphorus.PNG


Here is a chart I made last year when I was searching for low phosphorus foods. I didn't try them all, but perhaps this has a couple that are missing from Dr. Lisa's big food chart that could be of use for you. I believe I included the Sodium and Potassium columns because Tanya's CKD site mentions something about them... but I can't remember the specifics (lower sodium?). Double-check the nutrition values in case I calculated something wrong.

Definitely got some analysis paralysis picking out food when Dixie was diagnosed with CKD... It was hard enough as it is to get low-carb food, but then adding in the low-phosphorus requirement is even trickier. The Royal Canin food at the top of the list was what the vet's nutritionist was recommending, but you can see that the carbs were 14% so that is why I looked for an alternative.

Just as some reassurance for you, my vet said that if I can't get Dixie to eat these foods then it is fine to keep her on the Friskies and just use a phosphorus binder, and that the important thing is to get her to eat something. The vet's advice combined with what people on here usually say about just aiming for <1% phosphorus allowed me to just pick a food and go with it. I wish cat food companies would bring out more food that we actually want instead of whatever cheddar cheese gravy feast they keep selling hahaha.

Edit: Also sign up and check out Tanya's CKD Support Forum if you haven't already!
 

Attachments

  • Foods_Sorted_By_Phosphorus.PNG
    Foods_Sorted_By_Phosphorus.PNG
    312.1 KB · Views: 931
FarmKitty said:
View attachment 65189
Click to expand...
I actually love this chart! I need to spend some time looking at it, but I can tell you’ve got some excel skills with the conditional formatting. I’m an excel nerd, so just wanted to compliment you on your sheet. :bookworm:

Analysis paralysis for SURE! I have spent hours looking at this and still no clear answers. At least I’ve got good direction though.

George is still having diarrhea. I wonder if the high fat Glam n Punk isn’t agreeing with him… I was trying to hold him steady for a bit to see if the food change was the culprit. :facepalm:
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
@Jodey&Eddie&Blue I want to tag you on this post. It’s quite long, but we have been discussing food for diabetic cats with CKD here. I wanted to include you in it - when you get a chance.
Click to expand...
Thank you!! I was just thinking about food options and was considering a raw diet with EZComplete but then I just saw a post in another forum (which one??? I can't find it again) by someone whose cat contracted Toxoplasmosis (parasite Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii) quite possibly by feeding a raw chicken diet.
If it's not one thing, it's another. But thank you for this thread. I'll make my way through...
 
Jodey&Eddie&Blue said:
Thank you!! I was just thinking about food options and was considering a raw diet with EZComplete but then I just saw a post in another forum (which one??? I can't find it again) by someone whose cat contracted Toxoplasmosis (parasite Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii) quite possibly by feeding a raw chicken diet.
If it's not one thing, it's another. But thank you for this thread. I'll make my way through...
Click to expand...
Oh no. I will have to find that thread about toxoplasmosis. I have two cats with FIV so there’s no way I would feed them raw food because it could be deadly if they got food borne illness. Two years ago my cat Marcus caught an upper respiratory infection and it literally took him three months to get better. I know some people cook their meat with the EZ complete.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh no. I will have to find that thread about toxoplasmosis. I have two cats with FIV so there’s no way I would feed them raw food because it could be deadly if they got food borne illness. Two years ago my cat Marcus caught an upper respiratory infection and it literally took him three months to get better. I know some people cook their meat with the EZ complete.
Click to expand...
I didn't see it on here but somewhere out there in the entangled internet while doing some food research. How much cooking of ground chicken does it take, do you know?
 
Jodey&Eddie&Blue said:
I didn't see it on here but somewhere out there in the entangled internet while doing some food research. How much cooking of ground chicken does it take, do you know?
Click to expand...
CDC recommends cooking meat to 145F (63C) to kill toxoplasmosis - not sure what that looks like in cooking ground chicken but should be easy to test with one of those poke-in meat thermometers? I have been feeding commercial (veggie free) raw for years but also thinking of giving homemade cooked a chance as kitties get older (15-16).
 
Virginie said:
CDC recommends cooking meat to 145F (63C) to kill toxoplasmosis - not sure what that looks like in cooking ground chicken but should be easy to test with one of those poke-in meat thermometers? I have been feeding commercial (veggie free) raw for years but also thinking of giving homemade cooked a chance as kitties get older (15-16).
Click to expand...
Hi Virginie, thanks for this!! But what commercial (veggie free) raw are you using? That sounds like something I'd really appreciate. I have to confess: I'm vegan (!) so raw or cooked, meat is a challenge (for me, not them!!!).
 
Jodey&Eddie&Blue said:
Hi Virginie, thanks for this!! But what commercial (veggie free) raw are you using? That sounds like something I'd really appreciate. I have to confess: I'm vegan (!) so raw or cooked, meat is a challenge (for me, not them!!!).
Click to expand...
Ugh, I hear you, I was a vegetarian for 20 years (chronic health issues forced me to start eating meat again once or twice a week, but it still grosses me out), and for me raw meat is for cats, not people haha.
I’m currently feeding Darwin’s Natural turkey, which comes in plastic pouches and is delivered to your door (minimum order is 20lb I think, so it takes over your freezer). Very cost-efficient compared to others, but also heavy on bone, so I have to complete with other brands and with raw organ meat whenever I can (chicken or turkey hearts, organic liver).
I also really like Wild Coast Raw (may or may not be locally limited to PNW) and Lotus. Both brands have psyllium husks but Lotus also has the advantage of using eggshell instead of bone for calcium, which makes it easier on older kitties and kitties prone to constipation.
Of course my stubborn jerks will only eat Darwin’s reliably, but I am able to include a meal every day from one of those other brands, to try and balance it out a bit.
 
Virginie said:
Ugh, I hear you, I was a vegetarian for 20 years (chronic health issues forced me to start eating meat again once or twice a week, but it still grosses me out), and for me raw meat is for cats, not people haha.
I’m currently feeding Darwin’s Natural turkey, which comes in plastic pouches and is delivered to your door (minimum order is 20lb I think, so it takes over your freezer). Very cost-efficient compared to others, but also heavy on bone, so I have to complete with other brands and with raw organ meat whenever I can (chicken or turkey hearts, organic liver).
I also really like Wild Coast Raw (may or may not be locally limited to PNW) and Lotus. Both brands have psyllium husks but Lotus also has the advantage of using eggshell instead of bone for calcium, which makes it easier on older kitties and kitties prone to constipation.
Of course my stubborn jerks will only eat Darwin’s reliably, but I am able to include a meal every day from one of those other brands, to try and balance it out a bit.
Click to expand...
I bit the biscuit, so to speak, and made a small batch of raw chicken with EZComplete and put it in the freezer (I got these little silicone trays for easy popout). I've run out of Wervua but have some ordered. I have to to with Wervua for Blue because it's low phosphorus (mindful of kidney values) whereas Eddie is ok in that regard. I feel like I'm running a 5* resort/spa for cats who order individual meals and personal care with an ECID card.

I got the ground chicken from the whole foods store so it's human grade, which I guess is a bonus? But I've cleaned the preparation area like it's a biohazard (I didn't wear a Hazmat suit, though, LOL).

I'm going to go through this long thread and what I can glean. Hoping the Weruva arrives soon!!
 
FarmKitty said:
View attachment 65189

Here is a chart I made last year when I was searching for low phosphorus foods. I didn't try them all, but perhaps this has a couple that are missing from Dr. Lisa's big food chart that could be of use for you. I believe I included the Sodium and Potassium columns because Tanya's CKD site mentions something about them... but I can't remember the specifics (lower sodium?). Double-check the nutrition values in case I calculated something wrong.

Definitely got some analysis paralysis picking out food when Dixie was diagnosed with CKD... It was hard enough as it is to get low-carb food, but then adding in the low-phosphorus requirement is even trickier. The Royal Canin food at the top of the list was what the vet's nutritionist was recommending, but you can see that the carbs were 14% so that is why I looked for an alternative.

Just as some reassurance for you, my vet said that if I can't get Dixie to eat these foods then it is fine to keep her on the Friskies and just use a phosphorus binder, and that the important thing is to get her to eat something. The vet's advice combined with what people on here usually say about just aiming for <1% phosphorus allowed me to just pick a food and go with it. I wish cat food companies would bring out more food that we actually want instead of whatever cheddar cheese gravy feast they keep selling hahaha.

Edit: Also sign up and check out Tanya's CKD Support Forum if you haven't already!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this chart!! And, for the term "analysis paralysis"! With two cats (DM/acromegaly) and one of them early CKD, I've been dancing as fast as I can, which means trying to absorb, remember, record, compare, implement, all of which lead to a moment of paralysis to be sure. Trying to go with Weruva and it's dizzying with how many varieties there are and trying to locate them becoming quest-worthy...I've now ordered Weruva from Amazon but heard about https://www.identitypet.com/collections/shop-cat/products/95-free-range-cobb-chicken-wet-cat-food that appears to fit the bill.
 
Jodey&Eddie&Blue said:
Thank you so much for this chart!! And, for the term "analysis paralysis"! With two cats (DM/acromegaly) and one of them early CKD, I've been dancing as fast as I can, which means trying to absorb, remember, record, compare, implement, all of which lead to a moment of paralysis to be sure. Trying to go with Weruva and it's dizzying with how many varieties there are and trying to locate them becoming quest-worthy...I've now ordered Weruva from Amazon but heard about https://www.identitypet.com/collections/shop-cat/products/95-free-range-cobb-chicken-wet-cat-food that appears to fit the bill.
Click to expand...
Here’s my Diabetic CKD food list: https://www.bizave.com/foodlists/CKD Diabetes Food List.pdf
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
@AbbottTheCat do you know the answer to this question?
Click to expand...
While I don't think it's harmful to feed raw chicken I would be more cautious about ground meats. In this form the meat is more open to bacteria both when packaged at the plant and when preparing at home. For this reason I would cook any ground meats to well or well done, say at least 150 (It will cook an additional 5 or 10 degrees sitting out of the oven) for ground chicken.
I cook my ground turkey to about 150 degrees. Remember when cooking to retain the juices from cooking.
 
I personally have settled with Weruva wet food for now. But since I asked questions about EZ Complete to the fur for life folks and got answers, I thought I should share. I didn’t want to make this thread any longer, so see post here.
 
I am a bit late to the party, however I recently went through switching to something more kidney friendly as well (I ended up going with the PLAY from Weruva). I downloaded the datasheets for most of the Weruva brands (Fancy Feast is in there too, I got FF from one of the other threads on this forum), as well as there are some acceptable Soulistic foods. They break it down on DMB as well; I find that easier to use, only because I am used to using it over on Tanya's CKD group on previous cats, and Helen lists everything dry matter.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1002_L410c3cPqXp7gfEXH3BNsssYXSn3?usp=sharing
 
Scott & Elmsley said:
I am a bit late to the party, however I recently went through switching to something more kidney friendly as well (I ended up going with the PLAY from Weruva). I downloaded the datasheets for most of the Weruva brands (Fancy Feast is in there too, I got FF from one of the other threads on this forum), as well as there are some acceptable Soulistic foods. They break it down on DMB as well; I find that easier to use, only because I am used to using it over on Tanya's CKD group on previous cats, and Helen lists everything dry matter.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1002_L410c3cPqXp7gfEXH3BNsssYXSn3?usp=sharing
Click to expand...
Me too. Have switched cats over to Weruva BFF PLAY.
 
My Diabetic, CKD and pancreatitis boy doesn't do well with raw. I find cooking works better for him. Right now i am using EZcomplete but i want to transition to a diet just using vitamins. I'm going to use eggshells, liver and egg yolks. I'm just not sure how many vitamins to put in the food per pound. If anyone has a recipe for 1 or 2 pounds of meat with vitamins. Thank You
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top