New member: 13 y/o Captain Price recently diagnosed with diabetes

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Carson

Carson

Member Since 2022
Hello everyone, my name is Carson and my 13 year old male Maine Coon tuxedo mix was diagnosed with Diabetes on Tuesday August 9th. I rescued this guy from a shelter when I moved out at 18 so he's a very close friend of mine. My wife and I are willing to do whatever it takes to get our boy back to full health, this was very shocking and sudden.

I don't have the appropriate permissions to upload a copy of the bloodwork to this thread, but his urea nitrogen was at 43, glucose was at 447 (the vet was a traumatic experience for him, so I am not confident with the accuracy), potassium was 6.0, NA/K ratio was 25, cholesterol at 279, triglycerides at 318.

We have started on a nightly dose of 1 unit of Lantus. The vet also provided 4 cans of Purina DM wet food and a bag of Purina DM kibble. From the research I've done so far, the dry food should ultimately be eliminated entirely. We have two other cats that are not diabetic but could certainly benefit from a better diet as well. We've been feeding twice daily, twelve hours apart with wet food (Purina DM for Captain Price) with daily snacks of dry food in between.

I ordered an AlphaTrak 2 which will be delivered today, but reviewing the threads on this message board have me convinced that the ReliOn Premier is a better and more affordable option... would appreciate some feedback here.

We are following up with the vet tomorrow to read glucose levels and discuss next steps. I do not feel confident with our veterinarian's recommendation of prescription food, and we were also advised that reading glucose levels throughout the day will cause additional stress and to just watch for visual signs of hypo. I'm not very comfortable with this method although I'm not looking forward to pricking my cats ear multiple times a day.

This community is incredible... I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone and hopefully getting my baby on the right track for better health. Please let me know how I can better introduce ourselves and begin treating this awful disease properly.

Thank you, all! -Carson and Captain Price
 
Welcome.
Regarding posting images to a post see:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/uploading-files.241806//
Yes, a huan meter like the ReliOn Premier is fine and the strips are a lot more affordable that AlphaTrak srips
Carson said:
I do not feel confident with our veterinarian's recommendation of prescription food
Click to expand...
A commercial, low carb canned like Fancy Feast or Friskies is fine. The Pates varieties vice the shreds ir fillets or grilled are usually low carb.
Carson said:
we were also advised that reading glucose levels throughout the day will cause additional stress and to just watch for visual signs of hypo.
Click to expand...
One should always tedt BG before each shot and periodically between shots. When beginning, more frequent between shot reading are required.
 
I read the "uploading files" thread and have attached the bloodwork below.

Also, to note - Captain Price is not enjoying the Purina DM wet food. I'm lucky if he eats a 5.5 oz can throughout 3 meals. He's quick to eat the Purina DM dry food, so I know he's still hungry, but he mostly licks the wet food dry before losing interest. We are giving him 1 unit of Lantus each night with his PM meal.
 

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Hi and welcome. You are doing great by not only being here, but already having your signature setup.

Regarding fancy feast pates, while they are generally low carb they are all pretty high in phosphorus, and some of them are really high. With the cap'n being 13 years old, you may want to avoid foods high in phosphorus just to limit the wear and tear on the aging kidneys.

You mention shooting 1 unit of Lantus each evening -- is that the only insulin shot? Lantus should be shot as close to exactly every 12 hours as possible. After 12 hours has passed, the insulin has worn off and so Captain Price needs another shot. Once every 24 hours is no good and will not help him.

My vet initially said to only feed every 12 hours but it turns out that is very outdated thinking. Pretty much all the members here feed 3-4 times a day: two larger meals every 12 hours with the insulin shot, and then a couple smaller meals during the first 6-8 hours after the shot. Once 8 hours has passed the insulin is wearing off so most folks avoid feeding after 8 hours. And always with hold food for 2 hours prior to the shot, so when you do a pre-shot BG test it is not influenced from food raising the BG.

Good news on the insulin type though, Lantus is a very good insulin for cats. Lantus is what helped my boy Hendrick and with the extra help from the experts here at the FDMB, into remission after about 6 months of insulin therapy. He is now a diet-controlled diabetic feline, his pancreas is working again! We followed Tight Regulation.

Getting a spreadsheet setup is super important, this group is very numbers driven which is GREAT. But the experts here need to see that data in the spreadsheet.

Instructions here:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/


Do you have what we call a hypo kit? Are you testing for ketones?
 
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Thank you very much, this is very helpful information. I'm really beginning to lose faith in the vet's advice.

I will look into low carb low phosphorus wet foods. He seems to hate the Purina DM. In the past (pre-diagnosis) we'd give Fancy Feast wet meals as a snack and he'd devour them. Lantus is the only insulin shot - I was only going off of the direction from my vet. Seems that is not the best route to go. I'll start feeding 2 large meals with insulin and smaller meals in-between while avoiding food the 2 hours prior to the evening insulin dose.

I'll get started on the spreadsheet as soon as I begin testing with the AlphaTrak 2. Thank you for the instructions on creating this.

We don't have a hypo "kit" per se... I have a jar of honey. I have looked at the hypo kit FAQ and will begin putting one together. I am not yet testing for ketones. Is there a FAQ for this? We have three cats total so I'd have to try to catch him as he heads to the litter box to urinate. He is not drinking much water but I feel this may be due to the wet food transition which is completely new to him. Can I use the ketone test strips on brand new urine in the litter box or do I have to interrupt him and try to catch mid-stream?

Thank you so much, again.
 
I second everything Hendrick said. Lantus needs to be given twice a day every 12 hours. It is a long lasting insulin but it won’t last 24 hours. 1 unit is a good starting dose, you just need to do it x2 a day. After I found this forum, I stopped listening or asking for vet advice when it came to Minnie’s diabetes.
a good high carb food to have at hand is FF gravy lovers or Tuscany which actually has rice in it. I know it’s higher in phosphorus as mentioned, but that’s all I was ever able to give both my cats. They wouldn’t eat anything else and it’s best they eat than not :nailbiting:
Once you’re home testing, gradually remove the dry food and you can replace it with freeze dried snacks. PureBites makes good ones. No need for expensive prescription food, just look for low carbs, less than 10%. Here’s a link to the food chart:

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 
I used to catch it mid stream. I could always tell when Minnie needed to pee. She was very consistent with her timing so if I had the bottle near the litter box, I’d be able to “catch her in the act”. She was also an elevator kitty which made it easier to test her ha!
 
regarding your trepidation with doing BG tests and the ear pokes -- I totally get it, I thought that sounded flat out impossible and at the very least -- downright horrible.

Truth is, if you can condition kitty with treats, make pokey time a happy time where they get extra attention, rubs, treats -- and one little poke -- they actually look forward to it. Cats are creatures of routine and will quickly latch on to regular BG test times. Pick a spot and always have that be the spot where you do the BG tests and give treats.
 
I’m copying and pasting @Diane Tyler's Mom instructions on testing here for you:

The Relion Premier Classic Meter it's 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets any brand
Some cotton rounds

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
Take a look at the lancets ,you will see one side points up, that's the side you want to poke with
A lot of us use the lancets totest freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
You can also put a thin layer of vaseline on the ear ,to help the blood bead up
Hendrick made a video showing how to test your kitty at the end of his signature
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
regarding your trepidation with doing BG tests and the ear pokes -- I totally get it, I thought that sounded flat out impossible and at the very least -- downright horrible.

Truth is, if you can condition kitty with treats, make pokey time a happy time where they get extra attention, rubs, treats -- and one little poke -- they actually look forward to it. Cats are creatures of routine and will quickly latch on to regular BG test times. Pick a spot and always have that be the spot where you do the BG tests and give treats.
Click to expand...
Agreed! I have to say Minnie was so used to it, I’d test her wherever she happened to be and she was always fine. On the kitchen floor, on my bed, outside on the deck ottoman. Sometimes even on the grass in the backyard. I did have a bed in the kitchen area that I would coax her onto for the preshot tests but other than that, anywhere worked fine. I’d suggest at first you do pick a spot and then see how it goes. You both will get used to it and it becomes part of the routine like feeding time.
 
Thank you all! I will grab some Ketostix from Walgreens and begin ketone testing as well. How often should I be doing this? Both of your spreadsheets are extremely helpful for preparing me for the road ahead. I'll begin perusing the Lantus board as well. We appreciate the feedback very much.
 
@Carson Welcome this is the best place you want to be the members are amazing and with their help Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 knock on wood
You both will get used to testing, I can even test Tyler while he's sleeping

Captain Price is a handsome boy

Lantus should be given twice a day every 12 hours
If you ever want to look for low carb and low phosphorous foods here you go
With any wet food we always add a little water to it

weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com


For diabetic cats and cats that have elevated kidney values
You want to feed low phosphorous wet food

When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pics of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Go to this thread , there are a lot of weruva foods listed here in post #3 , post numbers are to the left
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/kidney-disease.262271/#post-2940026

Also
https://www.soulisticpet.com/nutritional-information-pate
I think you look under the same two places like in the Weruva to get the carbs and phosphorus %

If Captain Price likes PATES here are the weruva pages
Take a look here https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/pates-ni/

Try not to feed a lot of fish flavors , once a week is fine

Found this posted by another member pates
Click to expand...
I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF Play line.
 
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For your hypo kit you would want some of these
Low carb we like to stay around 6% carbs and under
Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb. and some honey

Such as
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.

It's good to mark the cans with the carbs on them
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

If you need help setting up your spreadsheet just ask, we have a member that would be happy to do it for you

As for freeze dried treats
Freeze dried treats
https://www.chewy.com/halo-liv-littles-grain-free-100/dp/29214

You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1
 
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Carson said:
I read the "uploading files" thread and have attached the bloodwork below.

Also, to note - Captain Price is not enjoying the Purina DM wet food. I'm lucky if he eats a 5.5 oz can throughout 3 meals. He's quick to eat the Purina DM dry food, so I know he's still hungry, but he mostly licks the wet food dry before losing interest. We are giving him 1 unit of Lantus each night with his PM meal.
Click to expand...
I'm going to tag Suzanne to take a look at the labs, in your post #3
@Suzanne & Darcy
Thanks Suzanne
 
Carson said:
Thank you so much for the food suggestions. This diagnosis has been beyond overwhelming and this thread is helping me breathe!
Click to expand...
Yes it is overwhelming in the beginning ,but we are all here to help
Once you get your meter and start testing the members can start to give you any advice needed. But like others have said Lantus should be given twice a day, any insulin should.

Just some info about the dosing methods for Lantus

SLGS: You hold a dose for 7 days (unless a reduction is earned). You decrease the dose when the BG falls below 90. The aim of this protocol is to keep the cat in the 90-150 range. This is more suited for caregivers who can't test as much as TR requires. You do a weekly curve with SLGS.

TR is a more aggressive protocol with increases as often as every 3-5 days. Reductions are earned when the BG falls below 50. The aim is to keep the cat in the range of 50-100 (which is the normal BG range for cats). To follow TR, you would need to get at least one more test per cycle in addition to the pre-shot one i.e. 2 tests per cycle or 4 tests per day. You would also need to be feeding only LC canned food and no dry food.


When taking away the dry food you need to be testing often because the BG can drop 100 points or so, you also want to transition taking away the dry food slowly

@Carson


About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
We also get some more tests in after AM and PM to see how the insulin is working and how low Captain Price is dropping
We don't increase or decrease by going by the Pre Shots we go by how low Martin is dropping

We adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time
Also insulin should be given the same time for the AM and PM shots

Do you have the Lantus Pen or the Vial?

Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings ?
If you don't
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct


Or

If you have a Walmart by you this was posted by one of our members , but you need to go into the store to buy them , they are not sold on their site

As for syringes, if you have a Walmart near you, you can get U100, 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge insulin syringes (the 3/10ml syringes ALL have half unit marks no matter what they might tell you). They should hold a maximum of 30 units. Either one of these is fine (and can be 30 gauge or 31) They are $12.58/100





upload_2022-7-12_20-33-38-jpeg.64779


30-unit-insulin-syringe-markings.jpg





We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006
 
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overwhelming is putting it lightly. I was so depressed and lost. My vet mostly useless, sent us home with a 2-page printout on FD and instructions to only feed every 12 hours, which we began immediately even though we weren't shooting insulin yet and that put Hendrick right into DKA. 2 nights in the hospital and $5000 later, we were back home and started insulin.

I realized i was going to need more help than my vet could provide and started googling.

Finding this place was....a life preserver thrown to a drowning person. People like @Diane Tyler's Mom here were the strong, firm hand reaching down to pull my head above the water as I was struggling to keep afloat. Gave me hope. Gave me strength. Saved me, saved my boy. I get emotional just typing this out lol.

dammit where's that tissue box
 
I think what you’re describing is how most of us felt. The wonderful folks like Diane and Deb & Wink, Nan & Amber and many others hand held me through this and if I can do it, anyone truly can. And, of course, when you start to see that your sugar kitty is feeling better it’s all worth it.
 
Carson said:
I read the "uploading files" thread and have attached the bloodwork below.

Also, to note - Captain Price is not enjoying the Purina DM wet food. I'm lucky if he eats a 5.5 oz can throughout 3 meals. He's quick to eat the Purina DM dry food, so I know he's still hungry, but he mostly licks the wet food dry before losing interest. We are giving him 1 unit of Lantus each night with his PM meal
Click to expand...

I'm going to tag Suzanne to take a look at the labs, in your post #3
@Suzanne & Darcy
Thanks Suzanne
 
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