Second cat just got diagnosed and is in DKA

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Mac88

Member Since 2020
Hey guys, I previously was on here two years ago for my cat Butterscotch. He previously went into remission twice but has been diabetic since 2020 and is doing well on Lantus and is 13 nearly 14. We're super lucky to still have him and test his BG twice daily at home before injecting.

Yesterday morning, my other boy Mac (7yo) was acting very lethargic. Now he's normally a very aloof cat, so I didn't notice anything was off until he didn't run to the food dish when I fed everyone that morning. That is so unlike him as he loves food and is always the first there. I spotted vomit by him and rushed him to my vet. He has never been diabetic before and only had asthma up to that point. He did drink a bit that morning at least but would not eat.

My vet did bloodwork, an x ray and ketones test. Mac had lost 3lbs. His bg was 492, his kidneys showed levels in acute renal failure, his liver was slightly elevated, and he had a ketone score of 50 (which my vet said was low so not as much to worry about). WBC was sky high. My vet said he was very sick and needed to be hospitalized at a 24/7 vet hospital and hopefully they could regulate the diabetes and get him on track.

I had to call multiple vet hospitals before finding one that wasn't over capacity and could see us. We drove the hour down there and Mac was just laying there on the seat, so out of it that I was worried he may pass away. We got to the hospital safely and they looked at everything and said the ketones indicated DKA. In all my years with Butterscotch and his diabetes, he has never had DKA so this was all new to me. The emergency vet estimated $5-7,000 for hospitalization and treatment. I broke down because I could not afford it. I told them I wanted to save Mac, but I did not have that money. I honestly thought it was the end of the road. They asked me what I could afford and I said probably $2k as I already had paid $350 to the other vet for testing. They called around and found another ER vet (ironically one that I had called and said they couldn't take me due to being full) that would do the hospitalization for around $1700-2500 and would take him due to his critical state. This felt like a miracle because I did not think Mac would survive given his state and the cost the other vet quoted.

We drove another hour to this other vet, which was scary because Mac was again just laying there, barely moving and I had to keep checking he was still breathing while safely driving him there solo. They pushed us to the front of the queue and got him into a room and looked at. I quickly signed the papers to get him admitted and they told me they'd call today with an update, and obviously right away if he took a turn for the worst. They started him on IV, insulin, the whole standard DKA protocol.

I honestly was expecting/dreading a call during the night that he was gone, but he made it through the night. The vet and I spoke and she said Mac looked better today, was up and walking around his cage, looking stronger. His kidney and liver levels looked worse than yesterday morning, but an ultrasound showed no permanent damage that they could see and some inflammation of the pancreas. They are thinking that inflammation may have been what caused the DKA. His urine tested negative for ketones which she said was very good. He did not want to eat on his own, but they said he took his syringe feeding just fine. The vet sounded cautiously optimistic and said I could visit him tomorrow and to bring food he likes to see if we can entice him to eat. She is also on board with transitioning him to Lantus like Butterscotch and is writing a script for me to fill to bring them a Lantus pen as they don't carry it at the hospital. She also said the next 12-24 hours are critical in his recovery and that if his kidney and other levels get better, we know he's on the mend.

I'm honestly overwhelmed. A couple days ago, I would've said Mac was super healthy so for him to nearly die so quickly from DKA is just crazy to me. I'm still worried he's not going to make it, so I guess I'm just looking for some stories of cats recovering from DKA and acute kidney damage and some advice on how to move forward with him when/if he comes home. I want to do right by my boy and hopefully get many more years with him as I have with Butterscotch.

It's also crazy/concerning to now have two cats with diabetes. The only things they have in common are both are long hair, both were overweight (but not massively so) and both had steroids prior to diagnosis (Mac had a maintenance dose for his asthma). Is anyone else here managing multiple cats with diabetes and how do you do it without getting overwhelmed.

Thanks guys for any advice you can give.
 
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Hi I'm so very sorry to hear this about Mac. I'm so happy the other ER Hospital took him asap. Saying prayers for Mac
I read you have to go buy a lantus pen asap so you can give it to the vet
If you need more you can get the generic Lantus a lot cheaper

Generic is fine you are better off getting the pens and not the vials
Basaglar

Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year

Basaglar is also Insulin Glargine, it acts the same way.

Here is a saving card for basaglar for 5 pens
Check it out just put in where it says set your location
https://www.goodrx.com/basaglar

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006


I an going to tag Bron for you who knows all about DKA
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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I am so sorry to hear about Mac. But it sounds as if he is getting good care and is doing well. I’m not surprised you are feeling overwhelmed! :bighug:
It is not at all uncommon for DKA cats to not want to eat. Hopefully they are giving him an anti nausea medication. If you are going in tomorrow to try and feed him, I would ask them to give him an anti au sea medication before you arrive there, so he isn’t nauseated.
We have had many cats recover and get back to normal after DKA. Most of them arrive here having got DkA at diagnosis like Mac. We do have a few who get DKA after they have been diagnosed.
DKA happens when there is not enough insulin, not enough food and an infection or inflammation happening. This combination is the recipe for DKA. The body starts to form ketones and if they are not treated quickly, the electrolytes get out of kilter and DKA develops. He obviously has an infection with a high WCC so I hope they are treating an infection with antibiotics. Please ask them.
So these three things have to be addressed to stop ketones from happening.

Here are my suggestions:
I am going to give you a list of things you will need to do before Mac comes home so you are organised
  • Buy a bottle of Ketostix for testing ketones. Can be bought from Walmart in the US or a pharmacy.
  • Ask the vet for antinausea medication such as cerenia and ondansetron. Most post DKA kitties are nauseated for a time.
  • May also need an appetite stimulant. Always give the antinausea medication first before the appetite stimulant.
  • Ask the vet about giving sub Q fluids at home
  • Get a range of canned food for when Mac gets home including some higher carb foods.
  • Set up a spreadsheet and the signature before Mac comes home
  • Not sure what type of glucose meter you are using but I would recommend a human glucose meter over an alphatrak meter.
  • If the vet is going to swap to Lantus before Mac comes home, make sure he has had a few doses at the vets first because lantus is a depot insulin and it can take a few days for the full effect of the dose to be felt and we want to make sure he is getting enough insulin to stop the ketones reforming.
  • Get a copy of the path results from the ER

After
Mac comes home here are my suggestions:

  • you need to give one and a half times as many calories as he/she normally eats. Offer snacks every couple of hours during the day and evening as well as the 2 main meals. Food is like a medicine and helps keep ketones away. If Mac won’t eat the low carb food, feed him whatever he will eat as eating any food is better than not eating,
  • Don’t skip any doses of insulin as insulin helps keep ketones away. If the BG is not high enough to give the dose…stall, dont feed and test again in 20 minutes and post and ask for help.
  • Test daily for ketones. Put the results of the tests into the remarks column of the SS so we can see. Please report any trace ketones at all.
  • Give antinausea medication if needed
  • Give appetite stimulant if needed after the antinausea medication
  • Give extra fluids. If kitty will tolerate warm water in the food, put a teaspoon into each snack..
  • Ask the vet about subQ fluids that you can give at home.
  • Set up a spreadsheet and test the BG frequently
  • Post daily with updates and ask for help as often as needed.
Please let us know how Mac is progressing and post as often as you like for help and support.
And ask as many questions as you need to. :)
 
Is anyone else here managing multiple cats with diabetes and how do you do it without getting overwhelmed.
We do have some people who have more than one diabetic cat. Until Mac recovers completely from the DKA you will be feeling overwhelmed I am sure but then hopefully things will settle down to a more routine day.
I would keep your recoding of BGs and doses given completely separate from each other if you write things down on paper so there is no mixup.
 
Thank you guys so much, this information really helps. We use the Relion Premier Compact meter for Butterscotch and I was planning on using the same for Mac since it's worked well for us. I am planning to use the spreadsheet for both, but each cat will have his own tab so we keep the readings and doses separate. From what it sounded like, the vet plans to start the Lantus at least a couple days before releasing him. They were originally talking a 4-6 day hospitalization and it's only been 1 day so I think that's why she wanted me to pickup the Lantus from the pharmacy and drop it off tomorrow to get that started.

We think there may be a kitty cold in our house as Butterscotch and our other cat have sneezed a few times, so this illness perhaps is what Mac originally got and that sent him downhill. All our cats are indoors only, spayed/neutered and negative for FIV, so pretty healthy aside from the diabetes. Butterscotch's BG was 425 tonight which is higher than usual, but he is eating and drinking normally and we've got antibiotics for him in case it is a cold and we're closely monitoring him. I gave him 2 units of Lantus tonight after that reading as his BG was 457 and 2 units of Lantus got it down to 425 (he had 1.5 last night). He was very hungry tonight so we fed him frequent, small meals of Friskies pate and he still eats some lower carb dry food which we've been trying to get him off (old habits die hard and he gets bored with just wet food). I am guessing he may temporarily need a higher dose, but I didn't want to push it too high as he's gone hypoglycemic before. Should I increase the dose more or hold steady at 2 units and see if it comes down with Lantus being slower acting? My normal vet, while great in general, is not super knowledgable about diabetes and originally suggested Novolin and 3 unit doses which I was told here was way too high, so I trust you guys more.

Thanks again for all the help. :)
 
Thank you guys so much, this information really helps. We use the Relion Premier Compact meter for Butterscotch and I was planning on using the same for Mac since it's worked well for us. I am planning to use the spreadsheet for both, but each cat will have his own tab so we keep the readings and doses separate. From what it sounded like, the vet plans to start the Lantus at least a couple days before releasing him. They were originally talking a 4-6 day hospitalization and it's only been 1 day so I think that's why she wanted me to pickup the Lantus from the pharmacy and drop it off tomorrow to get that started.

We think there may be a kitty cold in our house as Butterscotch and our other cat have sneezed a few times, so this illness perhaps is what Mac originally got and that sent him downhill. All our cats are indoors only, spayed/neutered and negative for FIV, so pretty healthy aside from the diabetes. Butterscotch's BG was 425 tonight which is higher than usual, but he is eating and drinking normally and we've got antibiotics for him in case it is a cold and we're closely monitoring him. I gave him 2 units of Lantus tonight after that reading as his BG was 457 and 2 units of Lantus got it down to 425 (he had 1.5 last night). He was very hungry tonight so we fed him frequent, small meals of Friskies pate and he still eats some lower carb dry food which we've been trying to get him off (old habits die hard and he gets bored with just wet food). I am guessing he may temporarily need a higher dose, but I didn't want to push it too high as he's gone hypoglycemic before. Should I increase the dose more or hold steady at 2 units and see if it comes down with Lantus being slower acting? My normal vet, while great in general, is not super knowledgable about diabetes and originally suggested Novolin and 3 unit doses which I was told here was way too high, so I trust you guys more.

Thanks again for all the help. :)
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
I can't see the SS for Butters to comment on. Do you have it linked?

I actually just started using it again yesterday as I was writing things down on paper before. So I've only got three readings now on the spreadsheet, which were 457 yesterday morning (gave 2 units), 425 last night (gave 2 units) and 330 this morning (gave 2 units and some chunk chicken mixed in with a little dry food). Butterscotch will eat smaller meals frequently, which I assume is normal of a diabetic?

We did get an update on Mac and even got to visit him and drop off the Lantus. The good news is, his kidney and liver levels while still elevated are gradually lowering (bun went from 80 yesterday to 55 today, should be getting a print out of full bloodwork). He still didn't want to eat this morning but right before we came to visit him, he ate a bit of tuna for the vet tech on his own! When we saw him, he had a cone on but walked around and looked so much better than the other day, just hated his cone and wouldn't eat for us because of the cone but looked interested.

Unfortunately, our 12yo female cat stopped eating, has been throwing up and only drinking tiny bits of water. She had elevated kidney levels in 2015, but at next visit they went down so they thought it was not chronic kidney disease, but just an acute thing that had resolved. And she's been fine since, aside from the not eating and drinking thing. Given Mac's sudden decline I didn't want to take chances with her, so I begged the same vet that has Mac to see her and we're waiting now. I don't think she's diabetic as she's always been petite and slim, but I do think she's got some sort of infection. Feeling totally overwhelmed but grateful Mac is improving. Thanks again for all the help so far, it feels more manageable.
 
Oh my goodness you are having a bad time with your kitties. I do hope u you put little girl is ok.
I’m glad to hear Mac is improving. Why do they have a cone on him? It’s hard for any cat to eat with a cone on and very off putting. I would ask them to remove it to eat.
 
Oh my goodness you are having a bad time with your kitties. I do hope u you put little girl is ok.
I’m glad to hear Mac is improving. Why do they have a cone on him? It’s hard for any cat to eat with a cone on and very off putting. I would ask them to remove it to eat.

Thank you, we ended up getting even worse news with her. She had end stage renal failure, her levels were worse than Mac's, other organs impacted and there was only the chance she'd survive treatment and get to go home on fluids regularly. I had two other cats succumb from kidney failure, one lasted a year from diagnosis in stage two to failure, the other five months, both were on the special food and fluid treatments as needed by the vet. We didn't want to make our girl suffer as her big brothers had at the end, so we made the call with our vet to end the suffering. It still hurts.

We did get more news on Mac. They said they take the cone off when he eats, but it was on the rest of the time to prevent him from taking out his IV on his front leg. They called this morning and we haven't got updated blood work yet, but Mac is eating really well for them and they're stopping the IV insulin and starting the Lantus. They sounded cautiously optimistic and said he's doing better than even yesterday.

Unfortunately when I got home last night, Butterscotch's BG had rose to 444 so I gave him a small meal and 2unit of Lantus and testing him shortly this morning again. I'll get the spreadsheet linked in my sig shortly as well. It honestly feels like we're fighting an uphill battle with his BG but I am hopeful we can get him to a good level again.
 
I am so sorry to hear you lost other kitty:rb_icon:cat_wings>o you are having a very hard time at the moment:bighug:
I am glad to hear Mac is doing well.
If you can get Butterscotch’s spreadsheet linked we can help you with the BGs. Are you testing during the cycles? Maybe he is bouncing.
 
I am so sorry to hear you lost other kitty:rb_icon:cat_wings>o you are having a very hard time at the moment:bighug:
I am glad to hear Mac is doing well.
If you can get Butterscotch’s spreadsheet linked we can help you with the BGs. Are you testing during the cycles? Maybe he is bouncing.

Thank you. :( it's been a rough few days.

I just added the link after testing him this morning. 403 so coming down so gave him 2 units and a meal. I haven't tested more than every 12 hours, but I can certainly start. Are there specific good times to test, like 4 hours after a shot or something else? Thank you for all your help.
 
Are you able to get a few more tests in during the am and the pm cycles so we can see what is happening? Even 1 each cycle would be helpful.
How long has Butters been on the 2 units of Lantus..
 
Are you able to get a few more tests in during the am and the pm cycles so we can see what is happening? Even 1 each cycle would be helpful.
How long has Butters been on the 2 units of Lantus..

Yes I'll start doing that, although it'll probably be easier to get earlier morning and afternoon readings due to schedule. He has been on 2 for a week now, 1.5 before that. His BG tonight was 520 at pm dose time, so given it's been a week I upped it to 2.25 units tonight. It does seem like his BG is trending higher at night.
 
It is possible he is bouncing from lower numbers during the cycles so we really need to see some mid cycle tests. I’m glad you are going to try and get some
 
It is possible he is bouncing from lower numbers during the cycles so we really need to see some mid cycle tests. I’m glad you are going to try and get some

For sure, I'll be trying to do every 2 hours today. His BG was 386 at shot time this morning, 382 3 hours after shot and meal. So hopefully we can figure out how to get it further down.

I just got an update on Mac from the doctor. The good news: they had to remove his IV due to swelling, but once they took his cone off he ate and drank on his own like a champ and is very active. The kidney and liver levels are just about normal now. The bad news: they have figured out he has pancreatitis and this has made it tougher to regulate his BG with Lantus. They started him on 1u and then increased to 2 as his BG was still around 600, so may increase more. He's also on low carb W/D food and may need to be on that once we get him home to prevent future flare ups. Ketones are still negative. The vet sounded cautiously optimistic so we're hopeful this can be managed going forwards with aggressive treatment of the diabetes. She said it is good that I know how to and can test BG once he's discharged as this helps to get him well regulated and I guess many owners can't or won't.
 
On second thought, after reading on these forums, I am hearing that W/D dry food is still 31% carb which is too high. So I'm thinking maybe we will need something different. Our cats tend to like wet food, but only if it's mixed with a bit of dry, so I've been hunting for a dry food that is lower carb and that they'll actually eat. We have 3 other non-diabetic cats (all female, all spayed, all healthy) so it's tricky finding something that will work for everyone as they tend to eat each other's food (though we are willing to work hard at separating them if need be).

The other complication is we are set to go on a trip out of the country in two and a half weeks for two weeks. I would cancel, but it is to see my husband's parents who we haven't seen in over a year and my husband is incredibly homesick. I do have family willing to come over at least twice daily to look after our cats, and they are willing to learn how to give injections of insulin but it is still scary leaving one diabetic, much less two at home. We have been trying to brainstorm how to handle things and make sure our diabetic boys are OK while gone. We never anticipated having a cat recovering from DKA and pancreatitis when booking this trip. I am hoping we can get the boys on a consistent dose of insulin that is perhaps a bit lower than we give (to prevent hypoglycemia) but enough to keep both out of high BG. It is all very stressful as I want to do right by them.
 
I’m pleased to hear the update on Mac. That is really good he is eating well. But please ask for cerenia and ondansetron to bring home in case he gets nauseated again. It’s very common in DKA cats.
I am a bit concerned they are increasing the dose of insulin in 1 unit increments. We recommend increasing in 1/4 unit increments. I would speak to them about that.
Great no ketones.
With pancreatitis there is no need to feed a special diet. Many diabetic cats get flares of pancreatitis. Any low carb, 10% or under is fine. My Sheba used to get flares of pancreatitis every so often. Just make sure you have some pain meds, sub Q fluids and antinausea meds at home to start straight away if a flare happens. The treatment is supportive until the flare subsides.

With your trip away, I would suggest getting freestyle libres fitted to both cats so that whoever is looking after them can monitor the BGs. We recently had a caregiver who had to go to the UK from the US for 3 weeks and we helped get her organised. We can go into more detail later.

are you organised with everything for when Mac comes home? It will be very busy for a while until he settles back to normal.
 
I will tag @Diane Tyler's Mom as she can tell you what dry foods are low carb in the US. I’m in Australia.
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90
 
I’m pleased to hear the update on Mac. That is really good he is eating well. But please ask for cerenia and ondansetron to bring home in case he gets nauseated again. It’s very common in DKA cats.
I am a bit concerned they are increasing the dose of insulin in 1 unit increments. We recommend increasing in 1/4 unit increments. I would speak to them about that.
Great no ketones.
With pancreatitis there is no need to feed a special diet. Many diabetic cats get flares of pancreatitis. Any low carb, 10% or under is fine. My Sheba used to get flares of pancreatitis every so often. Just make sure you have some pain meds, sub Q fluids and antinausea meds at home to start straight away if a flare happens. The treatment is supportive until the flare subsides.

With your trip away, I would suggest getting freestyle libres fitted to both cats so that whoever is looking after them can monitor the BGs. We recently had a caregiver who had to go to the UK from the US for 3 weeks and we helped get her organised. We can go into more detail later.

are you organised with everything for when Mac comes home? It will be very busy for a while until he settles back to normal.

Thank you guys both for the help. I will for sure ask about the anti-nausea meds and sub Q. I did just get an update from the vet and you were very much correct about the insulin dose as they took it up to 3 and Mac went below 70 with his BG, so they want to keep him until tomorrow to test every 4 hours and adjust the dose. I am thinking based on what I've heard here that 3 is too high and he'll likely need 2 or less, but we'll see depending on his BG numbers. They are planning to discharge tomorrow afternoon assuming all goes well, which is about in line with the 4-6 days of hospitalization they originally told me.

My longer term diabetic Butters has been lucky in that he hasn't gotten pancreatitis or ketones, so caring for one who is perhaps prone to that will be new for me. The other good news is the vet said Mac has a ravenous appetite and actually tried to steal another cat's food, so based on that, his general attitude (very affectionate and active) and his bloodwork, they very much think he is on the mend. I finally got copies of the bloodwork and will get those added to a spreadsheet to keep track of.

I have looked into the libres, but am concerned with them not lasting the full 14 days as my boys tend to hate anything around the neck (constantly shedding collars). I am thinking it may be wise to have my sister come over and train her and her daughter on how to give the shots and how to do the testing on the ears before the shots. I plan to constantly have my phone on me so that if they need me to advise them on the dose, I can do that, but it helps to have a backup plan just in case and we plan to write out a manual of instructions.

I'm working to get organized. First on my list is another monitor and test strips for Mac, plus a ketone blood monitor and strips and more syringes. I'm looking at food options so that I can get him and Butters on food they enjoy and on a good feeding schedule before I leave. Butters is a picky eater in that he'll lick all the gravy/sauce off pate or meat chunks, but sometimes will leave the chunks of meat. I've tried breaking it up finer which has helped, but perhaps I will have to look into other wet food options to find one he really likes. I am finally starting to see results with Butters 2.25u insulin dose as his BG at dose time this morning was 312, so much better but still elevated.
 
Make sure you have a supply of anti subsea meds (Cree is and ondansetron) for when you are away in case they are needed. also have a range of carbs…some low carb some higher carb and some honey or Karo if needed.

That is a good idea of you can train up your sister and her daughter to test before the shots. When I had to go into hospital expectedly when I had Sheba I had fortunately shown my 9 year old granddaughter how to test….she was interested and knew all about the BGs and what they should be etc.She was my lifesaver and she taught her mother how to test and my husband learned very quickly how to give the doses of insulin.
We recently had someone go to the UK for 3 weeks and she had a list set out with options and the career used to text her each preshot.
HERE is a link to one of her posts where we were discussing how it could all be managed. About three weeks out her caregiver had to pull out and she had to find another one, which she fortunately did, but the cat did I not know the caregiver….however it all worked out really well in the end. The caregiver…Yutong….posted here if she was concerned at all and she was in constant contact with Claire. Katz was also a post DKA kitty but was further along past DKA than Mac will be.

please get Macs SS done before he comes home. If you need help @Bandit's Mom will be happy to help you with it…she can set it up in a couple of minutes.
 
Make sure you have a supply of anti subsea meds (Cree is and ondansetron) for when you are away in case they are needed. also have a range of carbs…some low carb some higher carb and some honey or Karo if needed.

That is a good idea of you can train up your sister and her daughter to test before the shots. When I had to go into hospital expectedly when I had Sheba I had fortunately shown my 9 year old granddaughter how to test….she was interested and knew all about the BGs and what they should be etc.She was my lifesaver and she taught her mother how to test and my husband learned very quickly how to give the doses of insulin.
We recently had someone go to the UK for 3 weeks and she had a list set out with options and the career used to text her each preshot.
HERE is a link to one of her posts where we were discussing how it could all be managed. About three weeks out her caregiver had to pull out and she had to find another one, which she fortunately did, but the cat did I not know the caregiver….however it all worked out really well in the end. The caregiver…Yutong….posted here if she was concerned at all and she was in constant contact with Claire. Katz was also a post DKA kitty but was further along past DKA than Mac will be.

please get Macs SS done before he comes home. If you need help @Bandit's Mom will be happy to help you with it…she can set it up in a couple of minutes.

Thank you! Unfortunately I got a call from the vet this morning. They are keeping him another day because his BG got up to 700. It sounds like they went from 2 to 3 units (which dropped it to 76) then back to 2u and are now going up to 3 units, all in the span of 36-48 hours. From what I know of Lantus, you're supposed to increase by . 25 units and not keep yoyoing it, so I am guessing Mac's body was used to higher BG and is now fighting because of the big dose of insulin. I've seen it with my Butters as if I increase or decrease the insulin too fast, his preshot numbers are in the 400-500s, but holding it steady and only increasing .25 is getting it around 300 preshot and on good days even lower.

At this point, Mac is eating and drinking well and has been off IV fluids for 48 hours, no ketones, BUN is slowly decreasing and now at 49, it's just his BG being crazy. I'm honestly questioning whether or not to insist on discharge tomorrow as what they're doing for him at this point is what I could be doing at home (testing and insulin and close monitoring). Plus they're charging $96 a day for BG testing when I can do 50 tests at home for $9 with my relion meter. And I've seen with Butters it can take longer to get a good BG range and the right dose.

I'm going to see if they will give me a list of his doses and numbers so I can setup a spreadsheet with those immediately.
 
you're right that based on everything I've learned about Lantus, what they are doing isn't the right way to go, dosing is based on how low it takes the cat (nadir) not a one-time BG test. That 700 could have been a bounce from the 2u taking Mac too low!

the methods proven to work involve starting with a dose (usually 1.0 U) then holding it for 1 week to let the depot build and then do a curve. Even most vets do it this way.
 
you're right that based on everything I've learned about Lantus, what they are doing isn't the right way to go, dosing is based on how low it takes the cat (nadir) not a one-time BG test. That 700 could have been a bounce from the 2u taking Mac too low!

the methods proven to work involve starting with a dose (usually 1.0 U) then holding it for 1 week to let the depot build and then do a curve. Even most vets do it this way.

If I had to guess based on what they've said, the vets taking care of Mac are more used to shorter acting insulin (like novolin, which my other diabetic used to be on) and are expecting his numbers to react as they would on the shorter acting stuff. But I know from reading and from experience with Butters that Lantus takes time to fully kick in and doses need to be held steady. Heck, I've even seen it with my diabetic father when he started lantus, once they got him to a good dose and stayed steady, his BG has been awesome. I've noticed since starting and staying at the 2.25 for Butters, his BG preshot is slowly coming down even with the recent BG increase (likely stress induced) and I can see it from my spreadsheet.

It appears they are testing Mac 6 times a day. I currently test Butters around 4-5 times, including at +3 and +5 intervals to see how he's reacting and usually once after the PM shot. I was also wrong and they are actually charging $96+$60=$156 per day for Mac's BG monitoring which is insane. I think overall they've done a great job to get him to a good place where he's eating/drinking well, well hydrated and on the mend, but I am not sure they know everything about getting the BG numbers regulated.
 
How is Mac? Is he home? The vets don’t seem to know how depot insulins like Lantus work. Make sure to have nausea medication such as ondansetron or cerenia on hand. Preferably both. Ondansetron is a human medication which they might or might not be familiar with so ask for an RX.
 
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