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RachelBee & Spooky

RachelBee & Spooky

Member Since 2022
Hello everyone, I'm Rachel and my fur-baby is 18 year-old Spooky. Spooky was diagnosed in late June. We have been testing him at home for a few days now. I have been transitioning him to a lower carb diet. He had been free-feeding dry food and I stopped that last week. We are trying to reduce the carbs in his wet food. Luckily he had already been eating a relatively low-carb Friskies as his main food, so it's just the "snacks/toppers" that we are changing. I have two other cats too, both with hyperthyroid issues.

My vet started Spooky on 1u of Vetsulin every 12 hours. When he went back last week for a follow up he was tested even higher so the vet wanted us to up his dose to 2u but not start until 7/5 so her office would be open if he had a low. Luckily I found this forum before the 5th and got the right needles to only increase his dose by .5 instead of a whole unit (the UtiCare VetRX purple box.)

I also started testing his blood that same day, with the only meter I had at home with test strips (I'm also diabetic) a Livongo. Those test strips are free to me, but I assume if they knew I was testing my cat with them that gravy-train would dry up. So I also got strips for the only other meter I currently own, the Abbott Precision Xtra. The Precision Xtra tests a lot higher than the Livongo. I will ask the vet to check them both at his follow up next Tuesday.

I would love to get him on Lantus, if I can find a good price. I think if I order it from Canada I wouldn't need a prescription and it would be a bit cheaper. And then of course I would need to change needles again to the human ones.

Anyway, this is Spooky's 4th day on the 1.5u dose. I definitely had a fur shot on day 2 - I felt that one. Other than that blip, he seemed to be doing a bit better on the 1.5u, but this morning he tested Hi (over 500 on this meter) and at +3 he was still Hi, so I tested him with the old meter - 468, which is still much higher than I expected. I really don't think I had a fur shot - at least I didn't feel anything wet, although he flinched so maybe I went too deep. Or could this be a "Bounce?"

Anyway - thank you all for being here. Even as a diabetic, the amount of information is overwhelming. There is a learning curve for sure.
 
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RachelBee said:
Hello everyone, I'm Rachel and my fur-baby is 18 year-old Spooky. Spooky was diagnosed in late June. We have been testing him at home for a few days now. I have been transitioning him to a lower carb diet. He had been free-feeding dry food and I stopped that last week. We are trying to reduce the carbs in his wet food. Luckily he had already been eating a relatively low-carb Friskies as his main food, so it's just the "snacks/toppers" that we are changing. I have two other cats too, both with hyperthyroid issues.

My vet started Spooky on 1u of Vetsulin every 12 hours. When he went back last week for a follow up he was tested even higher so he wanted us to up his dose to 2u but not start until 7/5 so her office would be open if he had a low. Luckily I found this forum before the 5th and got the right needles to only increase his dose by .5 instead of a whole unit (the UtiCare VetRX purple box.)

I also started testing his blood that same day, with the only meter I had at home with test strips (I'm also diabetic) a Livongo. Those test strips are free to me, but I assume if they knew I was testing my cat with them that gravy-train would dry up. So I also got strips for the only other meter I currently own, the Abbott Precision Xtra. The Precision Xtra tests a lot higher than the Livongo. I will ask the vet to check them both at his follow up next Tuesday.

I would love to get him on Lantus, if I can find a good price. I think if I order it from Canada I wouldn't need a prescription and it would be a bit cheaper. And then of course I would need to change needles again to the human ones.

Anyway, this is Spooky's 4th day on the 1.5u dose. I definitely had a fur shot on day 2 - I felt that one. Other than that blip, he seemed to be doing a bit better on the 1.5u, but this morning he tested Hi (over 500 on this meter) and at +3 he was still Hi, so I tested him with the old meter - 468, which is still much higher than I expected. I really don't think I had a fur shot - at least I didn't feel anything wet, although he flinched so maybe I went too deep. Or could this be a "Bounce?"

Anyway - thank you all for being here. Even as a diabetic, the amount of information is overwhelming. There is a learning curve for sure.
Click to expand...
Hi Rachel & Spooky. I had a kitty named Spooky years ago. Welcome to the FDMB, you came to the right place. The people on the board are amazing. It's great that you are home testing, feeding low carb, & trying to switch to Lantus. I will tag a member that is familiar with vetsulin for you. So she can look at his spreadsheet & give you her opinion of what's going on with your boy. @FrostD
 
Welcome Rachel and Spooky!

I’ll speak about Lantus. You can order from Mark’s Pharmacy in Canada but you’ll still need a prescription for your first order. After that, you don’t. I had 4 Lantus pens for sale in the supply closet but I just sold them. Maybe check there to see if anyone else is selling Lantus. And yes, it’s a much better insulin for cats than Vetsulin, aka caninsulin as in it was made for dogs.

Good luck!
 
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Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Welcome Rachel and Spooky!

I’ll speak about Lantus. You can order from Mark’s Pharmacy in Canada but you’ll still need a prescription for your first order. After that, you don’t. I had 4 Lantus pens for sale in the supply closet but I just sold them. Maybe check there to see if anyone else is selling Lantus. And yes, it’s a much better insulin for cats than Vetsulin, aka caninsulin as that was made for dogs.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, in my experience, after a year and needing a refill, Mark's Pharmacy told me I need another prescription. So I'm not sure if that's a new thing or what?
 
Thank you all for the responses! I'm looking at Mark's Marine Pharmacy right now - I'm a bit concerned about how long it will take to get here to the Midwest.

But right now I'm more concerned about Spooky's high numbers today :( It's soooo tempting to give him another shot (but I won't.) I'm going to check his BGS and ketones in 20 minutes. Crossing my fingers!
 
Just popping in quickly, will come back more in depth tonight - hold this dose for at least 2-3 more days. The fur shots do mess with things a bit but he should settle back down, it's better to let him level out a bit and recover from those before increasing.

You want nadir to be 90-120, so you'll increase by 0.25U once a week until you get there. If he ever goes below 90, decrease your dose by 0.25U for at least a few days. If you start getting ketones closer to 1.8+ we may make some exceptions.

200s/300s really aren't too bad on Vetsulin for newly diagnosed cat...but it's basically my life's dream to get all cats off Vetsulin lol It works really well for regulating FD in maybe 10% of cats I see here, Lantus works well in more like 95% of cats (those that have difficulty tend to have other underlying issues anyway). We do say give it about 3 months of methodical dosing before making a decision, but if you're willing and can afford it, by all means switch.
 
Semglee and "insulin glargine" are also options. Some people have been able to get them for about $50 a pen form Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, or their local pharmacy. All depends who fills it, whether or not they'll accept things like GoodRx, if they notice/care that it's for a pet or not but worth a try. I try not to order from Marks this time of year, especially with this hot summer we're having.
 
RachelBee said:
Thank you all for the responses! I'm looking at Mark's Marine Pharmacy right now - I'm a bit concerned about how long it will take to get here to the Midwest.

But right now I'm more concerned about Spooky's high numbers today :( It's soooo tempting to give him another shot (but I won't.) I'm going to check his BGS and ketones in 20 minutes. Crossing my fingers!
Click to expand...
I’m in California but I always got my orders from them in about 5 bus days. It was always faster than I thought
 
FrostD said:
Just popping in quickly, will come back more in depth tonight - hold this dose for at least 2-3 more days. The fur shots do mess with things a bit but he should settle back down, it's better to let him level out a bit and recover from those before increasing.

You want nadir to be 90-120, so you'll increase by 0.25U once a week until you get there. If he ever goes below 90, decrease your dose by 0.25U for at least a few days. If you start getting ketones closer to 1.8+ we may make some exceptions.

200s/300s really aren't too bad on Vetsulin for newly diagnosed cat...but it's basically my life's dream to get all cats off Vetsulin lol It works really well for regulating FD in maybe 10% of cats I see here, Lantus works well in more like 95% of cats (those that have difficulty tend to have other underlying issues anyway). We do say give it about 3 months of methodical dosing before making a decision, but if you're willing and can afford it, by all means switch.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the encouragement and your guidance. I was struggling to find what ketone level would be considered an emergency. I've been reading on here that there's a much better chance of remission with Lantus than with Vetsulin. Based on this past week, it seems like the Vetsulin is out of his system withing 8-10 hours. But with an 18 year-old cat, is there a realistic chance of remission? I mean, my main goal is just to get him more comfortable. I know how crappy I feel when my blood sugar is out of whack. It sounds like I need to be more patient ;) Not my strong suit lol!
 
FrostD said:
Semglee and "insulin glargine" are also options. Some people have been able to get them for about $50 a pen form Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, or their local pharmacy. All depends who fills it, whether or not they'll accept things like GoodRx, if they notice/care that it's for a pet or not but worth a try. I try not to order from Marks this time of year, especially with this hot summer we're having.
Click to expand...

Thank you - I will search around and see what I find.
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
I’m in California but I always got my orders from them in about 5 bus days. It was always faster than I thought
Click to expand...

It sounds like they now ship through LA. I think it's currently 4 or 5 days from LA to Chicago. Hopefully those ice packs are really good. But maybe I can find one of the other alternatives closer to home.
 
RachelBee said:
Just found this on Amazon Pharmacy - Insuline Glargine-yfgn - same thing?

https://pharmacy.amazon.com/dp/B09VT7TRJ3?crid=3MKUDQ4U8BRX9&keywords=Semglee&qid=1657311170&s=amazon-pharmacy&sprefix=semglee,amazon-pharmacy,63&sr=1-2
Click to expand...
Yes, same thing!

If Vetsulin is lasting 8-10 hours that's actually pretty good. Probably why his numbers aren't too bad on it (ignoring the furshots lol) for many cats it tends to nadir at +2 to +4 then completely fizzle out, so they never make much progress.

Last I heard there were big customs delays through LA and insulin was taking 10-14 days to get here, and in this weather often the temp sensor was triggered.

Cats are definitely a little more complicated in humans in that they're smaller, faster metabolism, and you can't really use the short acting to help you out much. We do it in very special situations because can be very dangerous.

There were two studies done with blood ketones and cats, relatively small sample size but at least it's something. Basically -
At a cut-off value of 2.4 mmol/l, the sensitivity and specificity was 100% and 87%, respectively, for the diagnosis of DKA.

Papers are linked here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/

So once you get to about 2.4 it's nearly guaranteed; that said we have had a few cats that can run higher than that without DKA (they also had other underlying conditions) but we don't want them there if we can avoid it.
 
Apart from the ketone level, you also need to take into consideration how your cat is…. Is he eating or refusing food, is he vomiting, has diarrhoea, is he drinking excessively or is he lethargic. All these signs can show Spooky is sick and could be heading towards DKA. So it is not just the ketone test in its own. Watch out for other signs as well. I’m glad you are testing for ketones. It’s a good insurance policy
 
This was from one of our members whose cat was on lantus which is very expensive in the US
Basaglar has worked wonderfully, we were using Lantus and when we switched there wasn't even a blip. Hendrick did not seem to notice at all.

Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year

Basaglar is also Insulin Glargine, it acts the same way.

Here is a saving card for basaglar for 5 pens
Check it out just put in where it says set your location
https://www.goodrx.com/basaglar

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco to get the price for 5 pens
If you switch you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings
You can order them here, call them and they will ask you for your vets info and contact them so he/she can fax over a script and ask your vet for refills so you can then just order them yourself
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

I was looking at the price of the test strips for the
Abbot Precision Xtra, they look pretty expensive

Most of us buy the human meter from Walmart
The Relion Premier Classic it's 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
You can order them online also our numbers are based on human meter anyway
Just a suggestion :cat:
 
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FrostD said:
Yes, same thing!

If Vetsulin is lasting 8-10 hours that's actually pretty good. Probably why his numbers aren't too bad on it (ignoring the furshots lol) for many cats it tends to nadir at +2 to +4 then completely fizzle out, so they never make much progress.

Last I heard there were big customs delays through LA and insulin was taking 10-14 days to get here, and in this weather often the temp sensor was triggered.

Cats are definitely a little more complicated in humans in that they're smaller, faster metabolism, and you can't really use the short acting to help you out much. We do it in very special situations because can be very dangerous.

There were two studies done with blood ketones and cats, relatively small sample size but at least it's something. Basically -
At a cut-off value of 2.4 mmol/l, the sensitivity and specificity was 100% and 87%, respectively, for the diagnosis of DKA.

Papers are linked here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/

So once you get to about 2.4 it's nearly guaranteed; that said we have had a few cats that can run higher than that without DKA (they also had other underlying conditions) but we don't want them there if we can avoid it.
Click to expand...

I do think the Vetsulin has a much too short and sharp action but I'm going to keep with it and see how he is doing in a few weeks. If I can just figure out how to get that insulin on board without missing! I'm going to keep checking his Ketones, too. I checked again last night at +2 and they had gone down to .3 so I think it was the fur shot that caused those higher ketones. I may need to enlist my husband to babysit me when I'm giving the shots. My excuse - Spooky has long fur and it can be hard to see his skin.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Apart from the ketone level, you also need to take into consideration how your cat is…. Is he eating or refusing food, is he vomiting, has diarrhoea, is he drinking excessively or is he lethargic. All these signs can show Spooky is sick and could be heading towards DKA. So it is not just the ketone test in its own. Watch out for other signs as well. I’m glad you are testing for ketones. It’s a good insurance policy
Click to expand...

He was acting sick, just like he has been for months. But he was eating, not vomiting, no diarrhea, etc. I actually made him let me smell his breath haha. Smelled like cat food - ewww!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
This was from one of our members whose cat was on lantus which is very expensive in the US
Basaglar has worked wonderfully, we were using Lantus and when we switched there wasn't even a blip. Hendrick did not seem to notice at all.

Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year

Basaglar is also Insulin Glargine, it acts the same way.

Here is a saving card for basaglar for 5 pens
Check it out just put in where it says set your location
https://www.goodrx.com/basaglar

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco to get the price for 5 pens
If you switch you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings
You can order them here, call them and they will ask you for your vets info and contact them so he/she can fax over a script and ask your vet for refills so you can then just order them yourself
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

I was looking at the price of the test strips for the
Abbot Precision Xtra, they look pretty expensive

Most of us buy the human meter from Walmart
The Relion Premier Classic it's 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
You can order them online also our numbers are based on human meter anyway
Just a suggestion :cat:
Click to expand...


Thank you for all that great info! I actually get the Freestyle Optium strips - they're the European version of the Precision strips and they read identically. They're about $22-25 for 100 strips. I've been using those for several years for myself and I've compared them pretty extensively to the American branded strips.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077CX2R3B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The ketone strips on the other hand are pretty darn expensive! About $1 per strip - gah!

Assuming my vet will prescribe insuline glargine, I think that's clearly the way to go. The prices are much more affordable.

Am I right that we as caretakers of diabetic kitties don't strictly follow the "discard 28 days after opening" instruction? I know human diabetics usually only discard extra insulin if it starts to get "floaties" or stops working.
 
Some people choose to shave the area to help. If you kind of tent and then roll the skin a bit (assuming shooting scruff), the hair should split and give you straight visual of skin. That's how I always did it.
 
RachelBee said:
Thank you for all that great info! I actually get the Freestyle Optium strips - they're the European version of the Precision strips and they read identically. They're about $22-25 for 100 strips. I've been using those for several years for myself and I've compared them pretty extensively to the American branded strips.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077CX2R3B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The ketone strips on the other hand are pretty darn expensive! About $1 per strip - gah!

Assuming my vet will prescribe insuline glargine, I think that's clearly the way to go. The prices are much more affordable.

Am I right that we as caretakers of diabetic kitties don't strictly follow the "discard 28 days after opening" instruction? I know human diabetics usually only discard extra insulin if it starts to get "floaties" or stops working.
Click to expand...
I got the ketone strips on Amazon. I think I paid $16 for a bottle of 50. It was never $1 a strip

KETOSTIX Reagent Strips for Urinalysis, Measure Ketone Levels, 100-Count Box, 2881 https://a.co/d/bMhgefv
 
FrostD said:
Some people choose to shave the area to help. If you kind of tent and then roll the skin a bit (assuming shooting scruff), the hair should split and give you straight visual of skin. That's how I always did it.
Click to expand...

They told me to inject him right below his shoulder blades. I'll try rolling the skin and see if that helps - thanks for the tip!
 
Unfortunately the vet told me this morning that they aren't comfortable with changing his insulin, although they were ok with raising his dose slowly every 5-7 days depending on how low he's going. I'm going to stick with the vetsulin for at least a few more weeks and give it a fair chance. We're also starting him on SubQ fluids today. He's definitely been dehydrated.
 
RachelBee said:
They told me to inject him right below his shoulder blades. I'll try rolling the skin and see if that helps - thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...
Are you using any kind of lighting? I always used a flashlight aimed at the spot to make sure I could see the needle going in. I parted the hairs with the hand making the tent and injected with the other. Some folks here use a lamp. Lighting for me made all the difference. Never had a fur shot after that
 
RachelBee said:
They told me to inject him right below his shoulder blades. I'll try rolling the skin and see if that helps - thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...
Just found this
Had to go searching a bit but finally found a description of the wrist roll method posted by one of our members

↑
You might try using the "wrist roll" method instead of the "tent" when shooting. You grab some fur between your thumb and forefinger and then "roll" your wrist to gently pull until you see a "break" in the fur. Shoot into that break at about a 45 degree angle. It's kind of hard to describe but here's a picture that should help
upload_2021-4-21_17-19-32-png.64513
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Just found this
Had to go searching a bit but finally found a description of the wrist roll method posted by one of our members

↑
You might try using the "wrist roll" method instead of the "tent" when shooting. You grab some fur between your thumb and forefinger and then "roll" your wrist to gently pull until you see a "break" in the fur. Shoot into that break at about a 45 degree angle. It's kind of hard to describe but here's a picture that should help
upload_2021-4-21_17-19-32-png.64513
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! The picture helps. I'm getting better at the injections, but I'm still having some problems with fur shots. Will definitely give this a try.
 
RachelBee said:
Thank you so much! The picture helps. I'm getting better at the injections, but I'm still having some problems with fur shots. Will definitely give this a try.
Click to expand...
You're welcome, I myself have never tried it that way, I just grab Tyler's skin between the shoulder blades high enough until I can feel that indentation and then inject there . How long are the syringes you are using?
@RachelBee
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
You're welcome, I myself have never tried it that way, I just grab Tyler's skin between the shoulder blades high enough until I can feel that indentation and then inject there . How long are the syringes you are using?
@RachelBee
Click to expand...

They're 1/2". I was thinking about getting the 5/16" that I've seen people talk about here. Spooky is putting on a little bit more padding, and that's making it a bit easier to give him his shots. He's definitely acting a lot more like himself now :)
 
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Or these
https://shoppettest.com/advocate-pettest-u-40-insulin-syringes-31g-3cc-5-16-100-box/
These are the 5/16 length shorter ones

I saw on the site for the pet test syringes they said

PET TEST SYRINGES

NOTE: We will be doing extensive inventory from July 21, 2022 - July 22, 2022, and our warehouse will closed during that time.

Please order ahead as no shipments will go out during those two days. Thank you for your understanding! I see they are in Florida
3361 FAIRLANE FARMS ROAD WELLINGTON, FL 33414(888) 469-3579



Pet test syringes are shorter than the ulit care about nes


Even though they don't say half unit markings on the box they are
I copied off one of the reviews that was given saying they are half unit syringes
  • 4
    What a difference these needles make!
    Posted by Trish M on Jul 23rd 2021

    My dog was diagnosed less than a month ago and I was given 29g 1/2 syringes. She is a small toy poodle with Cushing's disease and her skin is very thin and delicate. I'm new to injections so I know I was causing her more discomfort than necessary. These make SUCH a difference. She no longer squirms and the ordeal is over much faster. The 1/2 unit markings are great as well.
    The only reason I didn't give 5 starts is because the syringes come in packs of 10 and are not individually wrapped. I'm very paranoid about contamination and keep the open bag in an airtight container. Please wrap them individually.
    But my little girl and I are VERY grateful!
  • Found this on their Facebook site
@RachelBee
 
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