7/1 Henry WC. AMPS 304 Ket:1.3 +4 293 +6 302 +11 298 PMPS 308 Ket: 1.8

John & Henry

John & Henry

Member Since 2022
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/6-30-henry-wc-amps-326-ket-0-6.265247/

So I just got off the phone with the vet and the TAMU results just came back and he's got EPI and B12 deficiency. The B12 deficiency isn't unexpected from what I've been reading. She said this could be the cause of not producing enough insulin and absorption problems due to lack of enzymes. She wants to get him on some enzymes ASAP. She said she would e-mail me some good sources of enzymes or there are prescription ones as well. Hopefully using these he'll be able to finally gain some weight back.

His BG numbers haven't been great the last (almost) 3 days. Ketones we at 1.3 @ AMPS and probably higher now (I'll be testing in an hour). She said after adding the enzymes it may increase his BG because he'll be absorbing food better. She also said IBD/SCL might also be contributing to the absorption issues as well.

Since I've been feeding him after his ear pricks he's gotten in his mind that he wants to eat as soon as I get him on my lap to do the pokes and tries to jump down/escape in order to get fed. This has obviously caused a bit of an issue. Glad to finally get some anwsers. She cautioned me to not just buy any OTC enzymes because there is great variation quality/quantity.
 
The IBD kitties chat has information about EPI and one person in particular who is very experienced and knowledgeable about the treatment and ways to get kitties to eat the sometimes not good tasting enzymes.
 
Dds35day said:
The IBD kitties chat has information about EPI and one person in particular who is very experienced and knowledgeable about the treatment and ways to get kitties to eat the sometimes not good tasting enzymes.
Click to expand...

I swear he'd eat just about anything right now. Are you referring to this website: https://www.ibdkitties.net/ ? Seems the "chat" portion is a facebook group? I detest facebook, but I guess I may have to grace the hinterlands to help my kitty.
 
PMPS is 308 and Ketones are up to 1.8 ... I can't risk them getting any higher or more ketones so I'm going to give a small .1u dose of R

edit: she suggested https://enzymediane.com as a reputable source so I just ordered some of their 6X product, unfortunately they probably won't make it here til Tuesday or Wednesday since I'm sure they're already gone for the day and with the long weekend ... I did get over night shipping, but I'm pretty sure Wednesday will be the fastest it'll arrive.
 
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Good to hear you have an answer to the food absorption question. @MICIO&Simone also has EPI. If she sees this she might be able to give a suggestion on enzymes.
Are you going to start some B2 injections soon?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Are you going to start some B2 injections soon?
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Yes, she said she wanted to, but it's Friday for a long weekend. After I got off the phone with her, I remembered others saying their vets sent a prescription for the B12 to their pharmacy and they could give the injection at home but other vets wouldn't go for that. Maybe I should email her before shes gone for the weekend and see if that's an option?
 
Or it you can pick up a couple days worth from her (preloaded syringes) and worry about prescriptions for a vial next week.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm glad you finally got an answer to the food absorption answer.
I hope with the enzymes Henry will start putting on weight :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Yes, I'm so excited.:bighug: The symptoms match so well now that I've looked up EPI. One thing that really sticks out at me is the description of "chalky light colored poos" I don't know I'd necessarily describe them as chalky, but definitely light colored and I knew it wasn't right, because they didn't look like that a year ago. I told the vet that a bunch of times. Apparently they're frequently on the look out for yellow diarrhea with EPI (which has actually happened a couple of times, but doesn't happen frequently.). I also saw one person say it smelled so bad it permeated the whole house which is another thing that happens with him (its bad... real bad). The article also said they will starve to death if not treated. I just got an OTC enzyme/probiotic at the pet store which will hopefully be better than nothing until the high-end ones arrive.

Wendy&Neko said:
Or it you can pick up a couple days worth from her (preloaded syringes) and worry about prescriptions for a vial next week
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Thank you that suggestion. I emailed her and she said I can pick them up tomorrow!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
What Henry needs are pancreatic enzymes, not digestive enzymes. The digestive enzymes won't hurt him, but won't help the EPI. Some information about it here: https://www.ibdkitties.net/epi/
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So I've got the porcine pancreatic enzymes the vet recommenced on their way, but they won't be here before Wednesday. I've been reading on the animal based vs plant based enzymes since I read your post. Some places say the plant based won't work at all, others say they will work to a certain degree, but aren't sufficient for EPI, a few even say they have worked for EPI, but I feel like they may have been trying to sell something. They both contain the same enzymes Protease, Amylase, and Lipase just derived from different sources and in smaller concentrations. I put a bit of the pet store plant based stuff in his food and about 2 hours later he's on my lap purring (this hasn't happened in quite awhile), seems to have more energy and (unfortunately) his BG shot up too (the food was <5%). Also his ketones are down slightly from 1.8 to 1.2 which is strange since he's been in the red for almost 3 days now. The vet warned me that when he started the enzymes that we'd likely need to increase his insulin since he'd be getting way more nutrients into him. So maybe it was just coincidence (or CG placebo), but he even seems a little less ravenous (maybe). Anyway paws crossed it's doing something until the big guns arrive.
 
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This is good news, John, not the EPI, of course, but you are finally getting some answers! Henry is going to improve a LOT now that you can start treating things. I'm glad those ketones came down a little, too. I cringed when I saw the 1.8 in your title. Keep up the good work! :-) Pets and treats to Henry.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Henry is going to improve a LOT now that you can start treating things.
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I was about to say the same thing!

John, I'm really glad to see you have some answers as to what is going on with him and a course of action that will help him. You're doing such an amazing job taking care of Henry!
 
Dyana said:
I would get a +1, as this may be a bounce breaking cycle.
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Yeah, I've been expecting a break for awhile now. Sometimes (especially if I'm trying to sleep) I'll just scan him with the libre to make sure nothing crazy is going on but may not be able to update the SS til a little later. He's been sleeping with me again the last couple days, so that makes it easier. Last scan was 291 at +4, so it hasn't broken yet, but atleast He's finally came down some. The actual value is probably closer to 250 since the libre always reads higher.
 
@John & Henry sorry, I just saw I was tagged in this post.
My Micio started with IBD many years ago and right after he was diagnosed with EPI and we started with pancreatic enzymes right the way; unfortunately the brand ( sorry I don't remember the name) that was suggested and I purchased did not work too well for Micio and he continued to have yellowish/bulky/soft stools and keep loosing weight (especially muscle mass on his hind legs). So, after my own research, I came across Enzyme Diane ®- Supplements for EPI ( www.enzymediane.com ) : at first I started with 6x Pancreatin but my Micio needed a even stronger strenght so I switched to the 8x pancreatine and doing ok with it.
IMPORTANT: when I first started mixing the enzymes with food, I guess I missed the part where it says to let the enzymes (mixed with some wet food) set up for at least 20 minutes before feed time, in order for them to activate. Although they may still work even if given right at feed time, I noticed a big improvement on Micio's stools and weight gain as soon as I started wait for those 20+ minutes.
Another important thing is to mix the enzymes very well with wet/watery food 'till fully dissolved cause, otherwise, that powder can irritate and even cause some lacerations on the throat/esophagus area (I did try that on a small open cut in my hand...it does burn!).
It will take you a little bit more time when feeding but you'll get use to. Example of my daily routine is: prepare the enzymes at 5:25am, add enzymes to rest of the food, test Micio's BG and, by the time he's done eating, I'll give him his insulin shot by 6am.
The enzyme's amount to add to food may vary from cat to cat: after years, I still have to tinker the amount based on Micio's stools (color and firmness). Not sure if enzymes can cause some of the constipation my Micio experiences sometimes but, by adding fibers and good probiotics, it does help a lot.
Pancreatic enzymes aren't cheap, especially since everything's prices spiked up lately, but I found EnzymeDiane to be the cheapest and best solution for my furry kid. Even if you don't buy this kind, please visit the website cause it has a lot of good info about EPI.
EPI can be managed fairly easy but may be challenging at first and, with some patience and observation, you can definitely help your Henry to go back to his "normal" self again. Did not solve the smelly stools 100% for my Micio though :D but your cat may be different.
 
MICIO&Simone said:
@John & Henry sorry, I just saw I was tagged in this post.
My Micio started with IBD many years ago and right after he was diagnosed with EPI and we started with pancreatic enzymes right the way; unfortunately the brand ( sorry I don't remember the name) that was suggested and I purchased did not work too well for Micio and he continued to have yellowish/bulky/soft stools and keep loosing weight (especially muscle mass on his hind legs). So, after my own research, I came across Enzyme Diane ®- Supplements for EPI ( www.enzymediane.com ) : at first I started with 6x Pancreatin but my Micio needed a even stronger strenght so I switched to the 8x pancreatine and doing ok with it.
IMPORTANT: when I first started mixing the enzymes with food, I guess I missed the part where it says to let the enzymes (mixed with some wet food) set up for at least 20 minutes before feed time, in order for them to activate. Although they may still work even if given right at feed time, I noticed a big improvement on Micio's stools and weight gain as soon as I started wait for those 20+ minutes.
Another important thing is to mix the enzymes very well with wet/watery food 'till fully dissolved cause, otherwise, that powder can irritate and even cause some lacerations on the throat/esophagus area (I did try that on a small open cut in my hand...it does burn!).
It will take you a little bit more time when feeding but you'll get use to. Example of my daily routine is: prepare the enzymes at 5:25am, add enzymes to rest of the food, test Micio's BG and, by the time he's done eating, I'll give him his insulin shot by 6am.
The enzyme's amount to add to food may vary from cat to cat: after years, I still have to tinker the amount based on Micio's stools (color and firmness). Not sure if enzymes can cause some of the constipation my Micio experiences sometimes but, by adding fibers and good probiotics, it does help a lot.
Pancreatic enzymes aren't cheap, especially since everything's prices spiked up lately, but I found EnzymeDiane to be the cheapest and best solution for my furry kid. Even if you don't buy this kind, please visit the website cause it has a lot of good info about EPI.
EPI can be managed fairly easy but may be challenging at first and, with some patience and observation, you can definitely help your Henry to go back to his "normal" self again. Did not solve the smelly stools 100% for my Micio though :D but your cat may be different.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. That's the exact same site my vet recommended and where I ordered from. I got the 6X enzymes because that's what they recommended for people switching over from prescription enzymes, hopefully they'll work. I've heard a bit about how many cats don't like the smell/taste. Did you have any problems with him liking the food? When I tried these pet store/plant based probiotics/enzymes the first try he ate it all no problem. The second time, he actually turned his nose up to them (which is strange since he's sooo hungry), he eventually ate them overnight, but I'm a little worried he's not going to like the porcine ones. I saw one site recommended a bitterness masking agent. Other places have said to just use a little bit of food for the enzymes and after he's finished (or you've given them via a feeding syringe) that then give the whole meal without the enzymes to help them get the taste out of their mouth. I've also seen places (and @Suzanne & Darcy ) state you can give them in a capsule before the meal. The capsule seems it would be ideal if he didn't want to eat them, but I wonder how that would effect the 20 minute "activation" and whether it could damage his stomach lining The vet warned me about the possibility of causing lacerations and make sure they were well mixed. How long did it take Micio to re-gain his weight? Did you feed him a lot more calories to bulk him up? That's a good suggestion to check to stools to see how well they're working, I hadn't read that anywhere. Did he have constipation problems prior to the enzymes?

edit: Did it make his BG increase at all after he started on the enzymes?
 
Plant enzymes won't work for EPI. I feed my cats raw meat with EZ Complete Supplements, not sure if that mixed with the enzymes have a better taste...I doubt it. My Micio always had a good appetite and, since EPI, even more...now, with diabetes, he's a eating machine. I feed him full meals every 6 hours x 4 times daily, plus treats in between (freeze dry meat, cooked meat...) but remember, whatever he eats without adding enzymes, he won't process that right so he'll ended up pooping that out without retaining nutrients.
I started seeing results right away: took a few days for the stools to turn back to a normal brown color, less bulky and less frequent trips to the litter box. As for the body weight, it took a couple of months before Micio gained some weight back but, the muscle mass on his hind legs never really came back and, with diabetes now, he's actually experiencing some weakness despite all of the B12 methylcobalamin I'm giving him.
Since IBD, EPI Not sure why the struggle with pooping but I think is a combination of motility, lack of exercise and some arthritis. I also have the impression that too much enzymes may cause the stools to harden so I have to adjust sometimes...lots of info on poop, that's for sure!
Micio has EPI for almost 4 yrs now but have diabetes since October last year so I don't know if enzymes can alter BGs.
 
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