BeBe Pro-Zinc

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GeorgiasGem

GeorgiasGem

Member Since 2021
This is BeBe. Since 2017 he has been diabetic. I’ve followed the vets recommendation until 15 months ago when I stopped his DM wet & dry food. I changed his diet to Fancy Feast & Dr. Elsey’s dry food. He has a brother Izzy Boo that is not diabetic who only eats dry food, so it have to have dry available for Izzy Boo. At out recent vet appointment June 3 we were told he is very close to remission and we should continue to reduce his insulin to 1 unit or 1/2 unit. The reason for his visit was because I was getting very high reading in the mornings and very low at night . I had already reduced his insulin myself overtime. He was being very picky on his eating and he had thrown up for three days prior to our visit. He had a complete blood panel with all results normal except glucose which was 208 at 4pm at vet. Prior to that day he was typicality getting 2 units of insulin only in the am. She said it was actually too much insulin and that’s why he had vomited and he was sick from skyrocketing and crashing. He was prescribed Mirataz to increase his appetite and oh my goodness it really has increased his appetite tremendously. I’ve attached my records for review and want to know when should I stop testing and giving insulin?
May 15 427 2 units PM 179 0 units
May 16 438 2 units PM 36 0 units
May 17 378 1 unit PM 404 2 units
May 18 358 2 units PM 87 0 units
May 19 428 2 units PM 141 0 units
May 20 449 2 units PM 414 2 units
May 21 284 1 unit PM 308 1 unit
May 22 418 2 units PM 337 1 unit
May 23 392 2 units PM 107 0 units
May 24 335 2 units PM 224 0 units
May 25 424 2 units PM 112 0 units
May 26 412 2 units PM 258 0 units
May 27 413 2 units PM 157 0 units
May 28 426 2 units PM 63 0 units
May 29 294 1 unit PM 70 0 units
May 30 358 2 units PM 114 0 units
June 1 425 2 units PM 91 0 units
June 2 333 1 unit PM 78 0 units
June 3 422 1 unit PM 208 0 units- vet appointment
June 4 448 1 unit PM 407 0 units started Mirataz
June 5 434 1 unit PM 174 0 units
June 6 328 1 unit PM 248 0 units
June 7 449 1 unit PM 315 0 units
June 8 359 1 unit PM 236 0 units
June 9 328 1 unit PM 222 0 units
June 10 434 1 unit PM 238 0 units
June 11 379 1 unit PM 342 0 units
June 12 348 1 unit PM 318 0 units
June 13 362 1/2 units PM 312 0 units
He’s eating 2 1/2 cans of Fancy Feast a day
 
GeorgiasGem said:
She said it was actually too much insulin and that’s why he had vomited and he was sick from skyrocketing and crashing
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Hello and welcome to the Board! I am glad you are here.

If your cat is getting sick from "skyrocketing and crashing" it would be from only giving insulin once per day. This is just silly advice. Cats who need insulin need it every 12 hours. Cats have very fast metabolisms and use their insulin much more quickly than humans do. It is true that some cats do drop into lower numbers at night but that is not a reason to shoot insulin only once per day. This just means that night time cycles need to be monitored with blood glucose tests so that you know how low a dose of insulin is taking the cat and can make adjustments to the insulin based upon that information.

Now, as to remission, if those numbers in your chart above in the 300s and 400s are blood glucose readings that you are getting prior to shooting insulin (or anywhere in the cycle really) your cat is a long way from remission. Sorry. :bighug: We can help you here -- to get your sweet BeBe onto a good dose of insulin that will help.
 
Some of those numbers give me a heart attack (the very low ones).

He was probably getting sick from crashing and skyrocketing - because the dose was too high, and also only once a day. The ProZinc insert does say twice a day.

I would actually try 0.75U twice a day for at least a week. While the preshot values are very helpful, even more helpful would be midcycle tests around 5-6 hours after you give the shot. By the way, are those AM and PM values fasting?

Why did the vet think his appetite needed to increase? Just because of the pickiness? I rather think he was picky because he just didn't feel well from the insulin overdose. Have you tried not giving the Mirataz lately?

Any chance at all he's getting into Izzy Boo's food?

How much does he weigh? Is he underweight, ideal weight? And what's the calorie count on the fancy feast can?
 
Oh as for remission, it is very hard to say. But right now he does not look like a cat near remission. We first aim for regulation, which we define as BG nearly always below 120-150 (but not in hypoglycemic levels). From there, the hope is the cat comes down in dose over time - to 0.5U, then 0.25U, then 0.1U, sometimes a drop dose, then a trial without insulin. And then some cats just get stuck at a maintenance dose for a very long time, possibly even the rest of their lives.

So - aim for regulation first ;)
 
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
If you need help setting up your spreadsheet just ask ,we have a member who would be happy to do it for you.
The link to to the spreadsheet will also explain how it works
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
  • Cheryl & BeBe 14 yrs old
  • DX: Date 2017 but we didn’t start testing until June 2018
  • ProZinc
  • Alpha Track 2
  • Combo Fancy Feast Pate & Dr Elsey’s
  • Custom
  • Lost a few lbs, he’s a very picky eater Rx for Mitraz started 6/4/22- skipped dose today to see how he’s eating. Although the vet never told me this after our conversations yesterday I researched and found out it should only be given for 14 days. So I’d be stopping on Friday.
Trying to figure out the spreadsheets. I would like to download a blank one but I haven’t had any success doing it.
 
GeorgiasGem said:
  • Cheryl & BeBe 14 yrs old
  • DX: Date 2017 but we didn’t start testing until June 2018
  • ProZinc
  • Alpha Track 2
  • Combo Fancy Feast Pate & Dr Elsey’s
  • Custom
  • Lost a few lbs, he’s a very picky eater Rx for Mitraz started 6/4/22- skipped dose today to see how he’s eating. Although the vet never told me this after our conversations yesterday I researched and found out it should only be given for 14 days. So I’d be stopping on Friday.
Trying to figure out the spreadsheets. I would like to download a blank one but I haven’t had any success doing it.
Click to expand...
Hi Cheryl , the signature has to go at the end of your posts do you see mine in light gray letters
Tap on your name up top and then tap on signature put the information you listed there then tap Save Changes
I am going to tag Bhooma one of our members to set up your spreadsheet for you.
She will send you a message above where it says inbox
@Bandit's Mom
Thanks Bhooma :cat:
@GeorgiasGem
That's my sister's name also Cheryl :cat:

You can just put
Cheryl/BeBe 14 yrs old/DX 2017/6-2018 started testing /Prozinc/Alpha Trak 2/FF Pate/Dr Elsey's Dry

These are the 2 dosing methods for Prozinc to choose from you might want to read them
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

After your spreadsheet is set up and you can record the tests you have taken the members can take a look at it and help you with dosing

Just a little about how the spreadsheet works
Basic Recording

Each day is a separate row and is comprised of two cycles: A.M. and P.M. The “AMPS” is the “A.M. Preshot” and the “PMPS” is the “P.M. Preshot”.

Each column stores different data for the day. The “U” column is for the amount of insulin shot (e.g 1u, 2.25u, etc).

From left to right in each row, enter:
  • the Date in the first column
  • the AMPS test in the 2nd column
  • the Units given; if no insulin is given, record “NS” in the “U” column
The “U” column is followed by 11 columns within that cycle labeled +1 through +11. All tests are counted from the time of the shot. For example, if a test is one hour after the shot, the BG is recorded in the “+1” column, five hours after the shot, the BG is entered in the “+5” column, 10 hours after the shot, the BG is entered in the “+10” column.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (which corresponds to +12 if shots are given every 12 hours). To the right is another column for Units given at the evening shot. There is a second set of columns labeled +1 through +11 following the “U” column. Enter the tests in the corresponding column based on the number of hours since the P.M. shot.

Sometimes, testing will occur at times other than whole hours from the shot. In this case, time is divided into 15 min increments recorded in quarters (round up or down to the nearest quarter so two hours and the minutes would be recorded the same as two hours and 15 minutes):
  • a test taken two hours and 15 minutes after the shot is recorded as +2.25
  • a test taken two hours and 30 minutes after the shot is recorded as +2.5
  • a test taken two hours and 45 minutes after the shot is recorded as +2.75
I'm sure you read what the other members have said about giving insulin only once a day is not correct, just so we know you read that can you just tap the word like that is all the way to the right
@GeorgiasGem
 
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Thanks but Chris R helped me make one . And OMygoodness it’s on this page!! I tried last night to get it posted and I gave up, I didn’t think it worked!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I am going to tag Bhooma one of our members to set up your spreadsheet for you.
She will send you a message above where it says inbox
@Bandit's Mom
Thanks Bhooma :cat:
@GeorgiasGem
Click to expand...
FrostD said:
Oh as for remission, it is very hard to say. But right now he does not look like a cat near remission. We first aim for regulation, which we define as BG nearly always below 120-150 (but not in hypoglycemic levels). From there, the hope is the cat comes down in dose over time - to 0.5U, then 0.25U, then 0.1U, sometimes a drop dose, then a trial without insulin. And then some cats just get stuck at a maintenance dose for a very long time, possibly even the rest of their lives.

So - aim for regulation first ;)
Click to expand...
Bhooma, My first spreadsheet is up. I’ve been testing since 2018. I only posted for this month to see where we are( THANKS TO CHRIS)I’m looking forward to getting help with BeBe.
Thanks Cheryl
 
FrostD said:
Some of those numbers give me a heart attack (the very low ones).

He was probably getting sick from crashing and skyrocketing - because the dose was too high, and also only once a day. The ProZinc insert does say twice a day.

I would actually try 0.75U twice a day for at least a week. While the preshot values are very helpful, even more helpful would be midcycle tests around 5-6 hours after you give the shot. By the way, are those AM and PM values fasting?

Why did the vet think his appetite needed to increase? Just because of the pickiness? I rather think he was picky because he just didn't feel well from the insulin overdose. Have you tried not giving the Mirataz lately?

Any chance at all he's getting into Izzy Boo's food?

How much does he weigh? Is he underweight, ideal weight? And what's the calorie count on the fancy feast can?
Click to expand...

Hello FrostD. I’ve finally got my spreadsheet on my page so to answer some of your questions.
I did test yesterday at 7 hrs & I’ll test again today closer to the 5-6 hr. The night doses are fasting, my vet had said no eating one hour prior to testing not 2 hrs as recommended here. I will follow the 2 hrs from now on.
He had lost weight about 1 1/2 lbs but now that I think about it he had been throwing up sick those days before his visit. I’ve stopped the MIRATAZ on Tuesday.
Yes I know he’s getting into Izzy Boo’s food. But I don’t know how to solve that. Izzy is a grazer and I leave dry down all the time.
He weighs 11.9 lbs he’s 14 yrs old. The FF pate is 12 % protein, 2% Crude Fat, 1.5% Crude Fiber, Moisturizer 78%
 
Hi Cheryl , the signature has to go at the end of your posts do you see mine in light gray letters
Tap on your name up top and then tap on signature put the information you listed there then tap Save Changes
You can just put
Cheryl/BeBe 14 yrs old/DX 2017/6-2018 started testing /Prozinc/Alpha Trak 2/FF Pate/Dr Elsey's Dry
That's the first thing members will look at
Do you see mine
 
To clarify - you only need to withhold food before the preshot tests. Any other test you do midcycle should not be fasting, we like to see how a dose does factoring in food, etc.

As for the dry food, I know it's tough. Some people keep food separate and only available at certain times, others buy microchip feeders. It will be a challenge to get him regulated if he is getting into unpredictable amounts of dry food at unpredictable/unknown times. The dry food can affect things for a few days as well
 
FrostD said:
To clarify - you only need to withhold food before the preshot tests. Any other test you do midcycle should not be fasting, we like to see how a dose does factoring in food, etc.

As for the dry food, I know it's tough. Some people keep food separate and only available at certain times, others buy microchip feeders. It will be a challenge to get him regulated if he is getting into unpredictable amounts of dry food at unpredictable/unknown times. The dry food can affect things for a few days as well
Click to expand...
Thanks today I took up wet & dry food at 5am. I’ll continue to do this to see if his numbers get better. Good to know the mid cycle is not fasting, I’m checking him at 2pm.
 
In addition to posting your spreadsheets it helps if you put things in your profile about the cat's medical history, other animals in the home, even what time zone you're in.
Was it your vet that suggested one shot per day? We get a lot of new members that have gotten bad advice from their vets, diabetes is not a big topic in veterinary colleges.
GeorgiasGem said:
when should I stop testing and giving insulin?
Click to expand...
Sorry, it's the only analogy I could come up with. Remission is like alcoholism, you never completely stop testing. Keep your fingers crossed and test once a month if you're sure he's in remission.
 
GeorgiasGem said:
Yes I know he’s getting into Izzy Boo’s food. But I don’t know how to solve that. Izzy is a grazer and I leave dry down all the time.
Click to expand...

Is that Izzy eating the Dr. Elsey's kibble? If that's what BeBe is getting into, at least it's low carb. We prefer they eat canned or raw only due to the extra moisture it provides but if he sneaks an occasional snack of Dr. Elsey's, it shouldn't cause his BG to go high (although in some cats, even the low carb kibble spikes their BG!)

For those who are curious, when she told me she'd been testing since 2018, I didn't think we needed her spreadsheet to go back that far!...LOL......so since the most important time period we usually look at is the last couple of weeks, that's why I started her at June 1

Fixed your Signature and spreadsheet for you @GeorgiasGem so you're good to go. If you need to add anything later, you know how to get in touch (but I bet you figure it out soon too).

It's great that you're starting to get some mid-cycle tests in since those are the tests that determine when we increase/decrease the dose but don't forget the PM cycle too. Now you don't have to stay up half the night, but try to get at least a "before bed" test after the PMPS. Usually that should be at least 2-3 hours after the PM shot.

Most cats go lower at night so it's important to know he's going to be safe while you're snoozing. If that +2/+3 test is lower than the PS, that is your "early warning" that BeBe might be going a lot lower later in the cycle so you may need to set an alarm to catch a test later in the cycle but that doesn't happen every night (usually anyway....some of our cats just plain refuse to read the rules of this dance!)
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
In addition to posting your spreadsheets it helps if you put things in your profile about the cat's medical history, other animals in the home, even what time zone you're in.
Was it your vet that suggested one shot per day? We get a lot of new members that have gotten bad advice from their vets, diabetes is not a big topic in veterinary colleges.

Sorry, it's the only analogy I could come up with. Remission is like alcoholism, you never completely stop testing. Keep your fingers crossed and test once a month if you're sure he's in remission.
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No I started the once a day based on his numbers. It’s not on my spreadsheet but the weeks before June 3, his numbers were 400’s in the AM and nearly crashing at night. If I had stayed on the vets recommended dosage of 4 units, he would probably not be here. Anyway it’s all going to change now with FDMB! I’m looking forward to getting his dosage regulated and many more years together.
I updated information on my profile page.
 
Don't let your past determine your future. I've always liked that saying.
BeBe is a testament to getting through the worst and living on. I like that too.
You're here now and that's all that matters. ;)
 
Not sure where to go from here. His numbers were scary low just now. I’ve taken the Dr Elsey’s dry food up & now feed on demand to his brother.
 
GeorgiasGem said:
Not sure where to go from here. His numbers were scary low just now. I’ve taken the Dr Elsey’s dry food up & now feed on demand to his brother.
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Tagging
@FrostD

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Chris & China (GA)

Cheryl just PM me I copied it
He crashed this afternoon with a 48. I probably shouldn’t have given him 1 unit this morning because he was only 300. I’ve followed certain perimeters and removed his access to Dr. Elseys Dry food. He was more picky today with his food , I stopped the Mirataz 2 days ago. He got some treats with his low and only ate a few bites. He didn’t even want the a few nibbles of dry. I’ve tested today & yesterday in between AM & PM. I. At loss as to how to keep him regulated.
 
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GeorgiasGem said:
I gave him treats and he ate few bites of his wet. I will retest.
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Do you have a hypo kit

For your hypo kit you want some
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
GeorgiasGem said:
I gave him treats and he ate few bites of his wet. I will retest.
Click to expand...
If you ever get a number under 68 on an Alpha Trak meter, that is your "take action" number. You MUST give very high carb food/karo syrup/ honey, or the gravy from a very high carb food. Then you must retest in 20 minutes and until his numbers are stable and then rising you just keep on doing it over again.... feed high carb and retest every 20 minutes.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Tagging
@FrostD

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Chris & China (GA)

Cheryl just PM me I copied it
He crashed this afternoon with a 48. I probably shouldn’t have given him 1 unit this morning because he was only 300. I’ve followed certain perimeters and removed his access to Dr. Elseys Dry food. He was more picky today with his food , I stopped the Mirataz 2 days ago. He got some treats with his low and only ate a few bites. He didn’t even want the a few nibbles of dry. I’ve tested today & yesterday in between AM & PM. I. At loss as to how to keep him regulated.
Click to expand...
I didn’t know where to begin my conversation.
 
Did you by chance double check that 48? Sometimes when there isn't enough blood, or a bad strip, they'll throw an odd number. Always a good idea to double check any unexpected number. 48 to 300 in an hour isn't outside the realm of possibility but a little unusual.

At this point I would actually recommend you go down to 0.5U. Just be sure to check ketones 2-3x a week.
 
FrostD said:
Did you by chance double check that 48? Sometimes when there isn't enough blood, or a bad strip, they'll throw an odd number. Always a good idea to double check any unexpected number. 48 to 300 in an hour isn't outside the realm of possibility but a little unusual.

At this point I would actually recommend you go down to 0.5U. Just be sure to check ketones 2-3x a week.
Click to expand...
I am glad you said this! I just told my daughter that I thought BeBe really should be on the .5 dose. Some of the numbers are concerning.
 
FrostD said:
Did you by chance double check that 48? Sometimes when there isn't enough blood, or a bad strip, they'll throw an odd number. Always a good idea to double check any unexpected number. 48 to 300 in an hour isn't outside the realm of possibility but a little unusual.

At this point I would actually recommend you go down to 0.5U. Just be sure to check ketones 2-3x a week.
Click to expand...
I did check him one hour after & he was 303. I literally just checked him again and he’s 405. Tomorrow I will only give him 0.5 units to start the day. I have the syrup ready if needed. I’ve never tested for ketones before. Is that process easy? I know I’ve been testing for
 
Must be nice to live in St. Mary's. I'm in middle Georgia... south of Macon. How about this heat wave :-( Did you shoot yet this morning? Those numbers you got were a big high bounce. Please post this morning with his preshot number and shoot only .5 units as you've indicated. What are your shot times? Try to get some other tests in today as well. +2, +4 or +6? Does BeBe cooperate with you for testing? Are you giving him little low carb treats at testing time, like Pure Bites chicken?
 
To test for ketones, you either need to get KetoDiastix from Walmart or a pharmacy and then try to get the stick under BeBe's urine stream while he's in the litter box. For me, this was not going to be possible so I purchased a NovaMax Plus blood ketone meter. It's similar to a regular BG meter except there are special strips for testing ketones. I just used my regular ReliOn Premier meter for testing BG and used the NovaMax only to test for ketones. The ketone strips are somewhat expensive, but well worth it if it can prevent a DKA. Does BeBe have any history of Diabetic Ketoacidosis? I don't see it in your signature, so I am assuming not.
 
FrostD said:
Did you by chance double check that 48? Sometimes when there isn't enough blood, or a bad strip, they'll throw an odd number. Always a good idea to double check any unexpected number. 48 to 300 in an hour isn't outside the realm of possibility but a little unusual.

At this point I would actually recommend you go down to 0.5U. Just be sure to check ketones 2-3x a week.
Click to expand...
Thanks .
I did check him one hour after & he was 303. I literally just checked him again and he’s 405. Tomorrow I will only give him 0.5 units to start the day. I have the syrup ready if needed. I’ve never tested for ketones before. Is that process easy?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Must be nice to live in St. Mary's. I'm in middle Georgia... south of Macon. How about this heat wave :-( Did you shoot yet this morning? Those numbers you got were a big high bounce. Please post this morning with his preshot number and shoot only .5 units as you've indicated. What are your shot times? Try to get some other tests in today as well. +2, +4 or +6? Does BeBe cooperate with you for testing? Are you giving him little low carb treats at testing time, like Pure Bites chicken?
Click to expand...
Yes St Marys is a quaint little town, we can ride our golf cart around and only see a few cars. From our yard we can see Florida across the river. The heat is too much for this early in June.
BeBe is the best cat ever, he’s very cooperative, I test his paws and he sits on my lap at the kitchen table.
I did test this morning at 9, he was 360. And I tested agin last night , it’s on his SS. His treats are Greenies and he usually only gets 2 but last night when he was 48 he got 8-10. I realize this is wrong . He loves PURE BITES treat mixer 100% Pure Wild Cat Tuna. I used to give it to him because he brother loves it but I haven’t in awhile. Is this a low carb treat?
 
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GeorgiasGem said:
Yes St Marys is a quaint little town, we can ride our golf cart around and only see a few cars. From our yard we can see Florida across the river. The heat is too much for this early in June.
BeBe is the best cat ever, he’s very cooperative, I test his paws and he sits on my lap at the kitchen table.
Click to expand...
What a sweetheart! His paws? Doesn't that hurt? I would think there are a lot of nerve endings in there... but I have read/heard of a few people doing this. If it 'aint broke, don't fix it!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
To test for ketones, you either need to get KetoDiastix from Walmart or a pharmacy and then try to get the stick under BeBe's urine stream while he's in the litter box. For me, this was not going to be possible so I purchased a NovaMax Plus blood ketone meter. It's similar to a regular BG meter except there are special strips for testing ketones. I just used my regular ReliOn Premier meter for testing BG and used the NovaMax only to test for ketones. The ketone strips are somewhat expensive, but well worth it if it can prevent a DKA. Does BeBe have any history of Diabetic Ketoacidosis? I don't see it in your signature, so I am assuming not.
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No he has never had a problem with Ketones. Yeah that’s why I asked is it easy?I don’t believe he’s be happy having me hanging out with a stick while he was going potty
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
What a sweetheart! His paws? Doesn't that hurt? I would think there are a lot of nerve endings in there... but I have read/heard of a few people doing this. If it 'aint broke, don't fix it!
Click to expand...
Oh he’s the best cat ever. I really couldn’t get his ears to bleed when we started this journey. Last night when I tested him he was on his tree and I just quickly pricked his foot bad & he didn’t even move .
 
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