Help with fluids

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kahluasmom

Kahluasmom

Member Since 2021
I need to give my civvie sub q fluids. I know how to do it, but I can't even get the needle in. Anyone have any tips?
 
Are you making sure the beveled point is facing up
Giving subQ fluids link https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-give-subcutaneous-fluids-video.144366/
I also found this posted by one of our members
keep the insulin shot away from the subQ site and 2 hours earlier with the sub Q fluids is a good idea.

Found this on Tanya's site
  1. Warm the fluids. Cold fluids can be very uncomfortable.
  2. I would fill a pan or basin with warm water and lay the bag in it to warm it up a little

  3. Use Terumo UTW (ultra thin walled needles) if possible. These can make an incredible difference to your cat's comfort level yet few vets use them.
I gave my civie fluids a long time ago and my vet gave me 2 different size needles one was thicker which made the fluids flow faster and the other ones were thinner but took a little longer to flow, but you can push on the bag and make the fluids come out faster
I'm sorry but I don't remember which ones my vet gave me

I can tag a few members to see if they have any suggestions and also what gauge needle to use
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Wendy&Neko
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Are you making sure the beveled point is facing up
Giving subQ fluids link https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-give-subcutaneous-fluids-video.144366/
I also found this posted by one of our members
keep the insulin shot away from the subQ site and 2 hours earlier with the sub Q fluids is a good idea.

Found this on Tanya's site
  1. Warm the fluids. Cold fluids can be very uncomfortable.
  2. I would fill a pan or basin with warm water and lay the bag in it to warm it up a little

  3. Use Terumo UTW (ultra thin walled needles) if possible. These can make an incredible difference to your cat's comfort level yet few vets use them.
I gave my civie fluids a long time ago and my vet gave me 2 different size needles one was thicker which made the fluids flow faster and the other ones were thinner but took a little longer to flow, but you can push on the bag and make the fluids come out faster
I'm sorry but I don't remember which ones my vet gave me

I can tag a few members to see if they have any suggestions and also what gauge needle to use
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Wendy&Neko
Click to expand...
The needles they gave me are huge. My cat jumps and bites too. My friend is a nurse came and tried. We eventually got it in and they say the fluids went in. There's no lump though.
 
Kahluasmom said:
The needles they gave me are huge. My cat jumps and bites too. My friend is a nurse came and tried. We eventually got it in and they say the fluids went in. There's no lump though.
Click to expand...
You should definetly feel the lump on your cat and feel the fluids under the skin
I found the size needles I had the thinner ones were 20 gauge by 1 inch Thin wall
The thicker ones were 18 gauge by 1 inch Thin wall
I'm sure you can order them on line
 
Last edited:
Kahluasmom said:
She gave me 18 gauge. They're huge! I even asked the tech who trained me if those were the right size.
Click to expand...
see if she has the ones I mentioned, if not you can order them but you will need your vet to fax over a script

Ask your vet if she has 20 gauge needles by 1 inch, or 19 gauge by 1 inch , what size did she give you

Or the 21 gauge by 1 inch I did a search and see a lot use this sizes
https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/terumo-needle-for-cats-and-dogs-rx/variation-11842

Just make sure the beveled side is pointing up when you insert it
 
Last edited:
I'll ask in the morning. The ones I have are 18 g by 1 inch. I had the bevel side up. I just couldn't get the needle in. My friend is a nurse and she came and almost got it in, but Mouse jumped. My daughter finally got it in. I know if I had better needles and much better helpers I could get it done. My daughter is great. The husband not so much.
 
Kahluasmom said:
I'll ask in the morning. The ones I have are 18 g by 1 inch. I had the bevel side up. I just couldn't get the needle in. My friend is a nurse and she came and almost got it in, but Mouse jumped. My daughter finally got it in. I know if I had better needles and much better helpers I could get it done. My daughter is great. The husband not so much.
Click to expand...
You probably will have better luck with the 20 x1 or the 21 x 1 or even the 19 x 1
Let me know if the vet has any other ones . Good luck :cat::bighug:
 
Kahluasmom said:
The needles they gave me are huge. My cat jumps and bites too. My friend is a nurse came and tried. We eventually got it in and they say the fluids went in. There's no lump though.
Click to expand...
How long do you think Mouse will sit still for? Get yourself some smaller needles - get some Terumo ultra-thin wall needles that are 19 or 20 gauge. These will be much smaller than the harpoons that the vets give out. I usually use 20 gauge needles most of the time. It will not flow as quickly as the big ones but they’re much more comfortable. The 19 gauge are also very good. I can send you some in the mail to get you through if you need them. I keep well-stocked on Lactated Ringers sub-q fluid bags and Terumo needles. Thriving Pets used to sell boxes of these.
 
You would not believe what a difference the sharper thin wall needles will make. I don’t think they’re making the 20s anymore. But the 19s are also excellent and the flow rate is good -- you can try smaller (the higher the number the smaller the needle) but it will take longer. When she's eating again, you can tempt her with food while you do the fluids. It helps to have a helper with you (even a kid can do it) and have them hold a food bowl with some food with forti flora on it or anything the cat likes a lot such as baby food. My daughter used to put pieces of kibble down in front of one of my cats and slowly give them out (to make it last for the whole fluid time). Those were civvies. Darcy used to just munch away on his own during fluid time (he was a lamb though... sweetest cat ever.)

It is super helpful to warm the fluids in a pot/bowl of hot water first. Personally, I warm them just to a similar temperature as their body temperature- around 101 or perhaps a little warmer. A lot of people use the infrared thermometers (inexpensive) where you point the thermometer at the object and it will register the surface temperature of the fluid bag. This chart may help you decide on size.
Needle_Flow_Rate_2048x2048.png
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You would not believe what a difference the sharper thin wall needles will make. I don’t think they’re making the 20s anymore. But the 19s are also excellent and the flow rate is good -- you can try smaller (the higher the number the smaller the needle) but it will take longer. When she's eating again, you can tempt her with food while you do the fluids. It helps to have a helper with you (even a kid can do it) and have them hold a food bowl with some food with forti flora on it or anything the cat likes a lot such as baby food. My daughter used to put pieces of kibble down in front of one of my cats and slowly give them out (to make it last for the whole fluid time). Those were civvies. Darcy used to just munch away on his own during fluid time (he was a lamb though... sweetest cat ever.)

It is super helpful to warm the fluids in a pot/bowl of hot water first. Personally, I warm them just to a similar temperature as their body temperature- around 101 or perhaps a little warmer. A lot of people use the infrared thermometers (inexpensive) where you point the thermometer at the object and it will register the surface temperature of the fluid bag. This chart may help you decide on size.
Needle_Flow_Rate_2048x2048.png
Click to expand...
Thank you! I will look into those needles. Last night was a nightmare. I found that my husband is a terrible helper. My oldest daughter is amazing at keeping it together. And I have a friend (who's a nurse) who will come help me at 11 p.m. My youngest would probably be a good helper, but she's sick and was asleep. I was able to syringe feed Mouse about 12 ml. She didn't fight that. Then she bathed! It was the highlight of my day! This morning she ate 1/8 can of food! Now she's back in her favorite spot napping. My poor girl.....what an awful day......year....it's been so far.
 
Kahluasmom said:
Thank you! I will look into those needles. Last night was a nightmare. I found that my husband is a terrible helper. My oldest daughter is amazing at keeping it together. And I have a friend (who's a nurse) who will come help me at 11 p.m. My youngest would probably be a good helper, but she's sick and was asleep. I was able to syringe feed Mouse about 12 ml. She didn't fight that. Then she bathed! It was the highlight of my day! This morning she ate 1/8 can of food! Now she's back in her favorite spot napping. My poor girl.....what an awful day......year....it's been so far.
Click to expand...
This is encouraging. Be sure to let me know if you want me to just mail you a package of needles for you to try different sizes. I have a few 19 on hand and LOTS of 20 gauge.
 
I second the use of Teruma needles. You can get the same amount of flow from a smaller needle.

For the short term, your vet should have smaller needles on hand. But needles are cheap. Beware of price gouging at the vet.

If you have a top loading carrier, you can put the cat inside and work from the open top. Also, placing the cat on the floor between your knees with its head up against a corner. The space between an open door and our bathtub worked for us and as a bonus I could hang the bag on a shower hook.
 
Mouse has an appointment this afternoon. She is trying to poop and woke from a nap covered in pee. This ultrasound has been a nightmare.
 
This t
Kahluasmom said:
We're at the vet. The kidney infection is back. She's not constipated, but the urine shows the infection is back. It was gone 2 weeks ago. Back on the meds for poor Mouse!
Click to expand...
I am very sorry to hear this. Poor Mouse! This time make sure she has a very long course of antibiotics. How long was she on antibiotics before? Was it at least 30 days. Kidney infections can take even longer than that to heal.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
This t

I am very sorry to hear this. Poor Mouse! This time make sure she has a very long course of antibiotics. How long was she on antibiotics before? Was it at least 30 days. Kidney infections can take even longer than that to heal.
Click to expand...
She was on them for almost 6 weeks. A couple days short because she was so sick from them. This time she's on a smaller dose and the liquid. They just checked her urine 16 days ago and it was totally clear. Stress, I guess. I gave her the first dose when we got home and she's eaten, bathed and is napping. I dread waking her and shoving more meds down her. Also-how do I give her probiotics? She will not eat them in food and every time I've syringed them she throws them up.
 
Here’s the felinecrf.org page on pylonephritis, which has recently been updated. You can hopefully read this later when you aren’t so overwhelmed and exhausted.
 
Kahluasmom said:
She was on them for almost 6 weeks. A couple days short because she was so sick from them. This time she's on a smaller dose and the liquid. They just checked her urine 16 days ago and it was totally clear. Stress, I guess. I gave her the first dose when we got home and she's eaten, bathed and is napping. I dread waking her and shoving more meds down her. Also-how do I give her probiotics? She will not eat them in food and every time I've syringed them she throws them up.
Click to expand...
. Are they giving her the same antibiotic or a different one? Which one?
 
The best needles are terumo. I used the ultra thin wall 19 gauge but I am not sure if they still make them. You can get 20g made by terumo though. Super sharp and glide right in. I bought them on line.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The best needles are terumo. I used the ultra thin wall 19 gauge but I am not sure if they still make them. You can get 20g made by terumo though. Super sharp and glide right in. I bought them on line.
Click to expand...
Thriving Pets still sells the Terumo 19 gauge one inch needles. They’re on sale now
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
What kind of probiotic are you supposed to give Mouse?
Click to expand...
Oh the vet didn't mention that. I just know she should have one. I put a teeny tiny bit.....and I mean teeny, tiny of s. Boulardii on her food this a.m. and she ate it. She probably consumed 1 grain.....sigh.....
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Thriving Pets still sells the Terumo 19 gauge one inch needles. They’re on sale now
Click to expand...
o
Are their prices still a lot higher? I liked the 19g for my cat that wouldn’t sit still fie long but used 20-21 g ultra thin wall for others. I also used the 25g for ear pricks instead of lancets. It’s been over 5 years since I bought though. I remember Cal Vet online also had good prices.
 
tiffmaxee said:
o
Are their prices still a lot higher? I liked the 19g for my cat that wouldn’t sit still fie long but used 20-21 g ultra thin wall for others. I also used the 25g for ear pricks instead of lancets. It’s been over 5 years since I bought though. I remember Cal Vet online also had good prices.
Click to expand...
Right now they're $14.95 for a box of 100 19 g. one inch needles. I'm not sure how that compares to other places right now or who is carrying the 19 g size .... they can be hard to find. Right now, I think the 20s are hard to find (they're sold out at Thriving Pets and who knows if that means they will ever be restocked.) I was just trying to find some for Maria as I generally keep myself pretty well stocked on those (I don't have any cats currently on daily fluids, but you never know.)
 
Kahluasmom said:
Oh the vet didn't mention that. I just know she should have one. I put a teeny tiny bit.....and I mean teeny, tiny of s. Boulardii on her food this a.m. and she ate it. She probably consumed 1 grain.....sigh.....
Click to expand...
I thought you said that every time you tried to give her probiotics she threw them up? Anyway, I must have been wrong/tired when I read that.... unless you meant s. Boulardii. I was just thinking that a different probiotic might now make her vomit. If she's on Cerenia daily, that should cut down/eliminate vomiting in general. If she's vomiting daily, she really should be taking Cerenia. I guess you can't get pills into her though.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I thought you said that every time you tried to give her probiotics she threw them up? Anyway, I must have been wrong/tired when I read that.... unless you meant s. Boulardii. I was just thinking that a different probiotic might now make her vomit. If she's on Cerenia daily, that should cut down/eliminate vomiting in general. If she's vomiting daily, she really should be taking Cerenia. I guess you can't get pills into her though.
Click to expand...
She throws it up if I syringe it. like right away. If I mix it in her food, she just won't eat it. She's not on Cerenia at all. It didn't do anything for her. I give her Zofran twice a day and Mirataz when she just will not touch any food at all.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Right now they're $14.95 for a box of 100 19 g. one inch needles. I'm not sure how that compares to other places right now or who is carrying the 19 g size .... they can be hard to find. Right now, I think the 20s are hard to find (they're sold out at Thriving Pets and who knows if that means they will ever be restocked.) I was just trying to find some for Maria as I generally keep myself pretty well stocked on those (I don't have any cats currently on daily fluids, but you never know.)
Click to expand...
I got some 22 g needles from the vet yesterday to try. I hope I'll never have to give her fluids again. But.....I probably will....sigh....luckily, one of the techs from my vet's lives here in my tiny town! What are the odds of that?
 
Kahluasmom said:
She throws it up if I syringe it. like right away. If I mix it in her food, she just won't eat it. She's not on Cerenia at all. It didn't do anything for her. I give her Zofran twice a day and Mirataz when she just will not touch any food at all.
Click to expand...
Yes. Cerenia is most effective at preventing vomiting. Zofran is the best for nausea (but it can definitely cause constipation.) Did the vet say why she was straining to poop? Or was it really sitting in the litter box thinking she had to pee?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. Cerenia is most effective at preventing vomiting. Zofran is the best for nausea (but it can definitely cause constipation.) Did the vet say why she was straining to poop? Or was it really sitting in the litter box thinking she had to pee?
Click to expand...
She had no poop in her. She was definitely straining to pee. She is doing a lot of not making it to the litterpan or peeing on me when I pick her up. She's 2 doses into the antibiotic.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Mouse update?
Click to expand...
Mouse is feeling better. The UTI is under control and the amoxicillin isn't as bad as last time. The prednisolone is helping her tummy. She isn't in as much pain it seems. She has even played a bit. She does seem to be nauseous in the morning. So, I've been giving her a zofron in the morning. I assume it's due to the amoxicillin because that did that to her last time. Definitely not as bad though. She seems a little down.....probably amoxicillin. Last night she had a hard time pooping, so I'm going to up the miralax this a.m. All in all, she seems to be much better.
 
Kahluasmom said:
Mouse is feeling better. The UTI is under control and the amoxicillin isn't as bad as last time. The prednisolone is helping her tummy. She isn't in as much pain it seems. She has even played a bit. She does seem to be nauseous in the morning. So, I've been giving her a zofron in the morning. I assume it's due to the amoxicillin because that did that to her last time. Definitely not as bad though. She seems a little down.....probably amoxicillin. Last night she had a hard time pooping, so I'm going to up the miralax this a.m. All in all, she seems to be much better.
Click to expand...
I am very happy to hear this. Poor Mouse has been through so much. Things are headed in the right direction. I’m sure the amoxicillin is making her feel a little yucky at times. You’re handling this well. Just be sure to get things tested after the amoxicillin is finished to make sure it’s all gone. I’m sure you already had this in mind/planned. Thanks for the update! I like good news. :) Let me know if there’s anything I can do. :bighug:
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I am very happy to hear this. Poor Mouse has been through so much. Things are headed in the right direction. I’m sure the amoxicillin is making her feel a little yucky at times. You’re handling this well. Just be sure to get things tested after the amoxicillin is finished to make sure it’s all gone. I’m sure you already had this in mind/planned. Thanks for the update! I like good news. :) Let me know if there’s anything I can do. :bighug:
Click to expand...
She already has an appt. on the 28th. I feel like I'm cramming meds in her all the time. And we're always late giving them. She's looking for food now, but doesn't want my selections. She has also decided she likes the raw food, which I never thought would happen. I do have a protein question!
 
Kahluasmom said:
She already has an appt. on the 28th. I feel like I'm cramming meds in her all the time. And we're always late giving them. She's looking for food now, but doesn't want my selections. She has also decided she likes the raw food, which I never thought would happen. I do have a protein question!
Click to expand...
Protein question? Isn't the 28th too soon? Won't they be giving her a longer course of antibiotics (like last time)? Or is this just a preliminary check?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Protein question? Isn't the 28th too soon? Won't they be giving her a longer course of antibiotics (like last time)? Or is this just a preliminary check?
Click to expand...
Im going to ask about that. It seemed too soon to me too. I'll be in there next week to pick up more meds.

Proteins....both Mouse and Kahlua are IBD girls assuming Mouse doesn't have cancer. The vet wants them on 1 protein only. I can use different brands. That seems wrong to me. I'd think different proteins that they haven't been exposed to much would be better. Mouse demands changes in her food at every meal. She will flat out starve herself. Currently she eats Duck, duck goose, Stella and Chewys turkey pate, Instinct duck or rabbit and today, when she would eat nothing else....venison. She is crazy critical of anything in her food.
 
Usually the recommendation is to feed a novel protein diet (a protein they’ve never eaten before diagnosis) or hydrolyzed protein diets like Z/D by Hill’s. She’s gotta eat!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Usually the recommendation is to feed a novel protein diet (a protein they’ve never eaten before diagnosis) or hydrolyzed protein diets like Z/D by Hill’s. She’s gotta eat!
Click to expand...
Right. She's had turkey before but she likes it and seems to be fine on it. Rabbit, duck, goose, pork and venison are all new. Today, even with Mirataz and Zofron.....picky! I'm dehydrating some rabbit.....sigh....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top