6/7/22 - Kaz - Feeding Schedule/ BG is All Over

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Claire and Kaz

Claire and Kaz

Member Since 2022
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy

Hi Bron
Wanted to touch base as I am leaving for the UK next week so wanted to make sure that I was prepared.
So the first thing is adjusting the insulin shots:-
Youtang (name) has asked for 7.30am/pm
So going to change shot times as follows. I leave on Thursday 6/16/22 in the evening.
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I don't know what insulin to give him yet but it will need to be a set dose as she won't be experienced enough
to adjust dose plus I can not guarantee a BG reading. Libre button could last a day or 2 weeks (definitely not
three weeks). I am looking into a mobile vet but so far not looking good.
I am assuming you want me to feed high carb food just not sure if this will be for all meals or every other?
I need to know the Carb % now as I have to order the high % carb food now to make sure I have enough.
I need to know I have enough of what ever food the schedule is going to take. Chewy has been taking a week to deliver lately and its just over a week now so I need to figure this out.

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Lately Kaz's numbers have been all over the place it's a bit weird but I am guessing you wanted me to stay at the same dose due to the upcoming trip. He has not gone into blacks but I am noticing reds and then mainly yellows with a few blues. It's weird as I thought his numbers would be lower. May sound stupid but I brought my suitcases up from the basement on 6/2 and this is when his numbers started to go a bit weird. I know he doesn't like me to leave him so I am wondering if he might be a bit anxious which is what's causing this. He has also been extra hungry the last few days.

Sorry long message let you take this in first. Thanks for your help as always.

Claire
 

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Your plan for changing the shot time is a good one. He really has been all over the place on the 2.5 units, hasn’t he? He’s had a few good cycles and then bounces - comes down and then does it all over again. I’m glad you were there to catch the lime green. I am not sure why a reduction was not taken with that lime green though?

As for the vacation dose, I believe Bron and some others have been discussing this. She’ll be along later in the morning (it’s only 5:23 am for her now.).

You could be right about Kaz picking up on the fact that you are making preparations to go away.
 
The bouncing is weird but I know Kaz hates me leaving as he tends to spend most of his time with me when I am home. If I'm watching TV or on my IPad he usually tries to get into my lap.
Then for three weeks he's basically on his own with no real cuddles. Laurie always tells me that he gets really bad at the start of the third week. She always tried to spend extra time with him but this girl is going to be in and out every day.

I see Laurie tomorrow night so I am hoping that she might be able to stop in every 2-3 days just to check on them both and spend a little time with them.
 
Claire and Kaz said:
The bouncing is weird but I know Kaz hates me leaving as he tends to spend most of his time with me when I am home. If I'm watching TV or on my IPad he usually tries to get into my lap.
Then for three weeks he's basically on his own with no real cuddles. Laurie always tells me that he gets really bad at the start of the third week. She always tried to spend extra time with him but this girl is going to be in and out every day.

I see Laurie tomorrow night so I am hoping that she might be able to stop in every 2-3 days just to check on them both and spend a little time with them.
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That would be nice since they are familiar with her. And an extra pair of eyes to check up on them would be good.
 
Were you advised not to reduce by .25 units when he had the lime green? Perhaps I missed that discussion. It certainly got my attention when I just looked at his spreadsheet a little while ago.

I hope you will have a good visit, and the new sitter will be able to keep in touch with you to lessen your anxiety.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Were you advised not to reduce by .25 units when he had the lime green? Perhaps I missed that discussion. It certainly got my attention when I just looked at his spreadsheet a little while ago.

I hope you will have a good visit, and the new sitter will be able to keep in touch with you to lessen your anxiety.
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No one has mentioned a reduction since I switched to the 2.5 units I assumed that was because his numbers were all over the place. I thought you only got reductions if you were in the greens and a few blues consistently with low drops in lime green sprinkled in.
 
Claire and Kaz said:
No one has mentioned a reduction since I switched to the 2.5 units I assumed that was because his numbers were all over the place. I thought you only got reductions if you were in the greens and a few blues consistently with low drops in lime green sprinkled in.
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With the Tight Regulation protocol any time a cat goes below 50, a reduction is earned.
 
I guess I should edit that comment to say that with long-term diabetics (those who have been diagnosed a year or more ago) the rules are slightly different -- but since it's not applicable here, I didn't want to go there. :-)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
With the Tight Regulation protocol any time a cat goes below 50, a reduction is earned.
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I do what I'm told. I will step in and make a judgement call if I'm scared for my cats safety but as far as overall dosing goes I am 100% reliant on this site. I would never just decrease a dose unless I was told to.

But I think maybe I understand it a bit more. You keep increasing a dose till the cat goes into lime. Then if that happens you decrease by .25 units. You then hold for 6 cycles at new dose if you again go into lime you reduce again but if the numbers don't reduce you increase again??? Keep guessing my way through this as there does not appear to be any kind of play book.
 
I’m glad you spotted the 46 in the spreadsheet @Suzanne & Darcy. Claire hasn’t posted for several days so I haven’t seen the SS. I did look one day but it must have been before the drop.
Yes Claire you do need to reduce the dose at the next shot please. You need to reduce anytime he drops under 50
I’m out at the moment and can’t answer the rest of the post but I will when I get home.
 
It is often best to do a lower (vacation) dose, starting a few days before you leave, but you are a little ways away yet, so perhaps post a little closer to that time and depending on how the cycles are looking, that will influence suggested dosing.

More importantly, I would recommend you catch up on reading the dosing methods if you haven't had a chance to look at them. As Suzanne said, you've missed a reduction with that 45 on pm cycle of June 5th. I would also encourage you to post more regularly, particularly if you are unsure of what to do and have questions. While this forum is a great resource with people who are always willing to offer help and guidance, you are ultimately your cat's caregiver, and you need to weigh all the information and suggestions made by forum members, and make the best decision for your cat. It really is not just simply a matter of "doing what you are told".

You may want to start posting on the Lantus subforum as well, since there are more members there who can help with Lantus specifically https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I’m glad you spotted the 46 in the spreadsheet @Suzanne & Darcy. Claire hasn’t posted for several days so I haven’t seen the SS. I did look one day but it must have been before the drop.
Yes Claire you do need to reduce the dose at the next shot please. You need to reduce anytime he drops under 50
I’m out at the moment and can’t answer the rest of the post but I will when I get home.
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Sorry about that I was in hospital for a small procedure then I was home and very unwell for a couple days did not really want to speak to anyone.
 
Hi Claire. As you are seeing fd is complicated. There’s not just one way to manage cats. Most cats do go up and down in dose sone more often than others if bouncy.

If you don’t remember anything else please remember a drop under 50 always calls for a reduction for cats new to fd. My cat often dropped in the middle of the night and I found it helpful to have the stickies printed and by my computer so I could refer to them as there were not always people around to give me guidance.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes please
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Hi Bron

If possible could you let me know about the carb % by tomorrow. If I am supposed to feed only high carb food while I am gone I need to get more bought. The pet stores in Massachusetts for Tiki and Wenuva are pretty bare so you have to rely on deliveries which can take time.

I need to physically leave all the food named and in order for this girl to put out so there are no mistakes as no one will be watching her.

Thanks
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I hope you are back up to feeling well again, Claire. I did miss seeing your posts, but I kind of thought… well, I guess things are stable with Kaz.
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.

Kaz is fine he's hungry again but he's finally started acting like his old self. Yesterday was the first day he slept in his old bed (higher up) and actually played with his brother for a while.

I don't post unless Kaz's numbers are bad as I always feel I'm being a bit of a pain. I try and only reach out when I really need help and I really need help starting next week .
 
Claire what do you think about the % of carbs for all the meals?
What do you normally feed foe the preshot meal? I think I would stay with the same % carbs there as now.
Areyou going to be feeding 3 snacks each cycle or 2 ?
And are the times +3 +6 and +8.?
 
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Claire and Kaz said:
while.

I don't post unless Kaz's numbers are bad as I always feel I'm being a bit of a pain. I try and only reach out when I really need help and I really need help starting next week .
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Claire, always ask a question of you are not sure. No one would think anyone was a pain for asking questions. We like questions.:)
What I would like you to do though once you are all sorted with the food and everything else for the trip is to print off the
Tight regulation protocol so you can refer to it. It’s really important that you know and understand how it works.
LANTUS DOSING METHODS
Look for the Tight Regulation Section
 
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What do you normally feed foe the preshot meal? I think I would stay with the same % carbs there as now.
Areyou going to be feeding 3 snacks each cycle or 2 ?
And are the times +3 +6 and +8.?[/QUOTE]

Right now before each of the shots I give 0% Carb and Tiki Food. Kaz likes the food and eats it plus it's healthy. However if his numbers are on the lower side I give Weruva but still 6% or under. I only give high carb when necessary.

This can not happen while I am away he needs a higher carb food. I am not going to be allowing her to give 0% carbs to Kaz at all. This is all Sam gets but I am worried she mixes the food and Sam may also get Weruva while I am away.

I feed +3 and +6 per your instructions but that's it as the feeder only takes two meals. The space is a bit tight to get another feeder in there but I can attempt to buy a single feeder and see if it arrives before I leave.

So 2 snacks and the size varies depending on his BG numbers. I will have her leave the same amount consistently.

I am going to apologies now but today is my busiest day of the month and once I get into work it will be hard to respond to posts but I will try. I just need to know if I need to buy more 15% food for all meals. I know this will keep his numbers on the high end of spectrum.
 
Just ordered single feeder just not sure it will go in the space with the other plus the cat. Pretty tight squeeze now.
 
Claire, I can only make suggestions to you about what food you feed him while you are away but ultimately he is your kitty and you must do what you think is best.

With the preshot meals, I think a meal with some carbs is better while you are away so maybe look at some foods that are around 5 or 6%.
For the first snack I would look at a higher carb around 9 or 10% and then for the second snack I would give a low carb snack around 4%-6%. If you are getting another feeder to give a later snack in the cycle I would make that snack a low carb snack around 4%.

I have not suggested any 15% carbs food but you must decide what you are comfortable with.

I will be speaking to some others about the dose soon.

I would also have the hypo kit set up with instructions for the girl to read.
I would print off THIS page for her about how to recognise a hypo and what to do about it.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Claire, I can only make suggestions to you about what food you feed him while you are away but ultimately he is your kitty and you must do what you think is best.

With the preshot meals, I think a meal with some carbs is better while you are away so maybe look at some foods that are around 5 or 6%.
For the first snack I would look at a higher carb around 9 or 10% and then for the second snack I would give a low carb snack around 4%-6%. If you are getting another feeder to give a later snack in the cycle I would make that snack a low carb snack around 4%.

I have not suggested any 15% carbs food but you must decide what you are comfortable with.

I will be speaking to some others about the dose soon.

I would also have the hypo kit set up with instructions for the girl to read.
I would print off THIS page for her about how to recognise a hypo and what to do about it.
Click to expand...


Thanks

His numbers are thru the roof tonight.
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy

So I got a bit of good news tonight. I had dinner with Laurie tonight. This is the lady that has been looking after my cats for the past 12 1/2 years.

Her Mum is doing better so that's the most important thing. She has said that she will try to come to the house every day just to check in with Kaz. She won't come in the morning or evening when the shot is being given but will come over for 30-hour around lunch time each day to see how he's doing.
I have asked her to do a BG reading with the Libre button.
She has said that if she thinks anything is going wrong she will step in and help and if she needs to will take over.
She agrees with me that I need a backup plan so wants to see if the girl can do it on her own but will come over if she needs the help.

Laurie is also trying to clear her calendar for the 15th to come with me to the vet to see how a Libre button is put on. She says that she's willing to have a go at installing the spare one if she feels comfortable with it.

So this actually has been a huge relief to me as now I know that someone will actually come in and spend a bit of time with them as they both get separation anxiety although Kaz is by far the worst. Plus she will see if something is wrong. She has 5 cats every one has a disability. She takes in cats that no one else wants.
 
Hi Claire, that is good news and I’m sure you are feeling relieved that Laurie can now help.
And I’m glad her mother is better.
That’s a good plan for her to come over and check during the day how things are going and to spend some time with the kitties. What a good friend she is.
What did you think about the feeding plan I suggested? Remember Kaz is your kitty and you must do what you think is best. We are just here to offer suggestions.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Claire, that is good news and I’m sure you are feeling relieved that Laurie can now help.
And I’m glad her mother is better.
That’s a good plan for her to come over and check during the day how things are going and to spend some time with the kitties. What a good friend she is.
What did you think about the feeding plan I suggested? Remember Kaz is your kitty and you must do what you think is best. We are just here to offer suggestions.
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Every can or pouch of food I am leaving has the carb % stuck to it.

To be honest I would rather not feed Kaz high carb food it goes against everything I have been doing for my cats for the past 10 years. They are on Tiki as I believe its the best food out there however it is 0% carbs and I know that Kaz needs carbs which is why I have introduced Wenuva.

So my plan is to set up a new table of food. I was going to do this on Friday when I was home.

I'm still contemplating the carb amounts mainly due to Kaz's numbers being all over the place. It's also hard for me to set a firm plan into place without knowing the insulin as I think this is what will drive my final decision.

If the Libre button is working and I can get three readings a day (2 pre shots and one from Laurie) I may text her different food choices. However if the button fails then I have to have a firm plan for her to follow.

Its kinda hard to make a decision which is why I asked you for help but I can see that your probably having the same guessing game as me.
 
Claire and Kaz said:
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy

So I got a bit of good news tonight. I had dinner with Laurie tonight. This is the lady that has been looking after my cats for the past 12 1/2 years.

Her Mum is doing better so that's the most important thing. She has said that she will try to come to the house every day just to check in with Kaz. She won't come in the morning or evening when the shot is being given but will come over for 30-hour around lunch time each day to see how he's doing.
I have asked her to do a BG reading with the Libre button.
She has said that if she thinks anything is going wrong she will step in and help and if she needs to will take over.
She agrees with me that I need a backup plan so wants to see if the girl can do it on her own but will come over if she needs the help.

Laurie is also trying to clear her calendar for the 15th to come with me to the vet to see how a Libre button is put on. She says that she's willing to have a go at installing the spare one if she feels comfortable with it.

So this actually has been a huge relief to me as now I know that someone will actually come in and spend a bit of time with them as they both get separation anxiety although Kaz is by far the worst. Plus she will see if something is wrong. She has 5 cats every one has a disability. She takes in cats that no one else wants.
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Laurie sounds like a sweet person. A woman after my own heart… taking in cats nobody else wants.
I am so happy for you, Claire! I’ve been worried about not only Kaz, but about you and how you would cope with the stress of being away with Kaz like this. Things seem to be coming together nicely.
 
Tiki is a good quality food, Claire, and I used to feed it to my Darcy a lot, but I found, upon research, that it was very high in phosphorus, which is hard on the cat’s kidneys. I had to stop feeding Darcy’s favorite Tiki food with the little quail eggs on top. :(
 
His numbers are pretty normal for an unregulated cat. If you look at other SS you will see until a cat gets more regulated they do tend to have many colours in the SS.
The reason I suggested a higher low carb at +3 was because if he is dropping that is a good time to give a higher low carb. All we can do is make an educated guess with the feedings.
I would be careful doing too many swaps/ changes with the food with the girl in case she gets confused. And unless you are there testing you are only guessing what the next cycle will be like.
I think a set plan for the food is better unless he drops low and then either the food or the dose would need looking at depending on how low the BG dropped.

Are you going to be posting here during the 3 weeks at all?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Tiki is a good quality food, Claire, and I used to feed it to my Darcy a lot, but I found, upon research, that it was very high in phosphorus, which is hard on the cat’s kidneys. I had to stop feeding Darcy’s favorite Tiki food with the little quail eggs on top. :(
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That's one of my cats favorites too I usually give them a can of chicken and quails egg to split on Saturday and Sunday morning. He's had masses on his kidney and liver but that was something not related to food.
He likes Tiki so I allow him to have it couple times a day depending on numbers but except for the Seabass he only really likes the chicken ones hes not a big fish guy.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
His numbers are pretty normal for an unregulated cat. If you look at other SS you will see until a cat gets more regulated they do tend to have many colours in the SS.
The reason I suggested a higher low carb at +3 was because if he is dropping that is a good time to give a higher low carb. All we can do is make an educated guess with the feedings.
I would be careful doing too many swaps/ changes with the food with the girl in case she gets confused. And unless you are there testing you are only guessing what the next cycle will be like.
I think a set plan for the food is better unless he drops low and then either the food or the dose would need looking at depending on how low the BG dropped.

Are you going to be posting here during the 3 weeks at all?
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If I get the BG readings from her and Laurie I intend to update the spreadsheet daily.
Usually I go home and don't hear from Laurie at all but this was when he was not sick.
I don't want to pester either of them but I am planning on texting at least every couple days to see how things are going.
I think the site I am using states that they send pictures of your furbawls daily.

If I have any news I will post. I can post to say I have no news. I will be in a different time zone though so it may be at different times. It's 3am in the UK right now.
I have to take my brother in for ear surgery and due to his special needs I know I will be out of pocket for at least a couple days.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Don’t worry about the time zone difference. I live in Australia so will see the UK time posts for a lot of the day and either I or someone else will see your posts.
We will assume no news is good news:) but we will be here if you need us
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Thank you I appreciate that and I am sure I am going to need help beyond the insulin dosage.
I work on the same premise as you no news is good news.
 
Claire and Kaz said:
If I get the BG readings from her and Laurie I intend to update the spreadsheet daily.
Usually I go home and don't hear from Laurie at all but this was when he was not sick.
I don't want to pester either of them but I am planning on texting at least every couple days to see how things are going.
I think the site I am using states that they send pictures of your furbawls daily.

If I have any news I will post. I can post to say I have no news. I will be in a different time zone though so it may be at different times. It's 3am in the UK right now.
I have to take my brother in for ear surgery and due to his special needs I know I will be out of pocket for at least a couple days.
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Post when you can, Claire. I help Jill and Merlin a lot, too and she’s in Cork, Ireland and I see most of her posts since I am up at 5 am Eastern Standard Time and usually up quite late as well. But we all will be hoping for updates on how Kaz is doing as much as you can tell us and I would like to know how you are.
 
Claire I have been talking to a few others and should have your vacation dose very soon.
I know you are going to be showing the girl (Youtang) how to draw up the dose and watch her do it for a few days. But what I would suggest is you get a syringe and fill it to the vacation dose, using food colouring or something similar so that she has the amount there in front of her..make sure you label the sample syringe clearly with something taped on so that it is not used by mistake.

Just a few questions for you.
  • Can, you tell me what you have in your hypo kit please?
  • A suggestion was made that it would be a good idea to have some special treats and maybe some special food just in case he wasn’t eating and Laurie could tempt him with it if needed.
  • Another good suggestion was to have some antinausea medication and an appetite stimulant there in case he is not eating.
  • Do you think you would be able to show Laurie how to do a ketone test? Do you think she would do it a few times? It would be really good if you think you could persuade her to do it.
I’ll get back to you soon on the dose.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Claire I have been talking to a few others and should have your vacation dose very soon.
I know you are going to be showing the girl (Youtang) how to draw up the dose and watch her do it for a few days. But what I would suggest is you get a syringe and fill it to the vacation dose, using food colouring or something similar so that she has the amount there in front of her..make sure you label the sample syringe clearly with something taped on so that it is not used by mistake.

Just a few questions for you.
  • Can, you tell me what you have in your hypo kit please?
  • A suggestion was made that it would be a good idea to have some special treats and maybe some special food just in case he wasn’t eating and Laurie could tempt him with it if needed.
  • Another good suggestion was to have some antinausea medication and an appetite stimulant there in case he is not eating.
  • Do you think you would be able to show Laurie how to do a ketone test? Do you think she would do it a few times? It would be really good if you think you could persuade her to do it.
I’ll get back to you soon on the dose.
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1) For emergencies I have honey, maple syrup and Karo.

2) When he was first diabetic I must have bought every food out there and he basically would not eat anything else. Once the medication started to kick in then he would eat anything as he was so hungry. Now he will eat Tiki and Weruva and in couple instance Fancy Feast but he doesn't really care for this either and the Fancy Feast he will eat is the only one that is 0% carb.

I kept a small box of high carb food that was a mixture of different brands in case there was an issue down the line with the hope that he will eat one of them.
I have however got the medicine you put behind his ear to (appetite stimulant) make him hungry if there is an issue.

3) Yes have both of these although she would have no clue if cat was nauseous.

4) No neither of them are willing to do any kind of blood test. I am 100% reliant on the Libre button. I will ask again but we discussed this on Wednesday so I do not think she is going to change her mind and I do not want to fall out with Laurie. We have been friends for sometime and I do not want to try and make her do something that she is not comfortable doing. I get it, it took me almost a month to get a simple ear prick down I was in tears every time I had to do it.
 
I would put the carb% of the high carb food you have, if you know what it is on the top of the cans, and put it into the hypo kit with the honey, maple syrup and karo.

I would label everything clearly and what it is for so there is no mistake.
The suggestion by Dyana to maybe get Laurie to do a urine test for ketones, is a good one, if you think it would be OK with Laurie.
 
Dyana said:
Maybe have some fresh urine ketone test strips, in case she can't do a blood ketone test.
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Not trying to be difficult here but the chances of a Ketone test are basically 0.
I went to blood test as urine was a 100% impossibility. Kaz was not having any of it he will not use the box if your in the room with him and he moves cling film over and over. I would take me hours and hours to get this and she is not going to stay here all day doing this.

Laurie is doing me a favor as we are friend to come once a day. Her Mum is still not 100% but she feels that she can leave het for about an hour day.
 
Claire and Kaz said:
Not trying to be difficult here but the chances of a Ketone test are basically 0.
I went to blood test as urine was a 100% impossibility. Kaz was not having any of it he will not use the box if your in the room with him and he moves cling film over and over. I would take me hours and hours to get this and she is not going to stay here all day doing this.

Laurie is doing me a favor as we are friend to come once a day. Her Mum is still not 100% but she feels that she can leave het for about an hour day.
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That’s OK. Just thought I’d ask. :)
How is the packing going? Are you excited yet?
 
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