? 06-01 Panzer PMPS 244/ acting off ?/had a bad night & AMPS feeding SOURCES OF FIBER PLEASE

Chrispooky12

Chrispooky12

Member Since 2021
Panzer is finally over his 4 month long UTI. He is not acting right today. He's eating I've been putting chicken broth on there food for a couple of days now & they love it. He feels hot to the touch? Today was my long day today so my ex roommate fed them there +8 AMPS meal. He was a little lower @+4 AMPS this morning, he's been running a little higher @+4 but not this morning. I noticed some days he struggles to poop, some days it's normal & some days it's liquid poop. He's peeing fine, I hope this doesn't mean he/ they still have garditis. He was never tested for it but was treated along with Spook. I'm supposed to take stool samples in from both him & Spook on Friday. That will be 9 days off of the antibiotic. I increased his dose to 1 unit from .75 on May 28th PMPS cycle because he was staying in the 300s. He was on the .75 dose for 16 cycles. Since then he has been in the 200s & his cycles have been flat. Is he maybe getting to much chicken broth? It's just broth from his boiled chicken that he gets for treats when we test nothing added to it. Should I try water with the next feeding? I tried to take Spook off of the Mirataz on this past Saturday, he did fine until Monday so he's back to having it on his ear once a day again. He ate about 3/4 of his PMPS meal,with alot of coaxing & fortiflora, so I will put some on his ear @+2 PMPS. He's acting fine other than that. https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...stions-240-4-239-7-224-8.263555/#post-2954163
 
Elise is right about increasing, of course. He's firmly ensconced in yellows right now and he's been this way for more than six cycles. But what is your real concern here? The fact that he feels hot? The constipation/diarrhea. The Girardia? Tell me again what you are giving him in the way of Miralax or pumpkin or Lactulose or what? You usually use Miralax right? How much and how often, or do you base it on how he's pooping?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Elise is right about increasing, of course. He's firmly ensconced in yellows right now and he's been this way for more than six cycles. But what is your real concern here? The fact that he feels hot? The constipation/diarrhea. The Girardia? Tell me again what you are giving him in the way of Miralax or pumpkin or Lactulose or what? You usually use Miralax right? How much and how often, or do you base it on how he's pooping?
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I think my main concern is that he may still have the garditis. I usually give him 1/4 tsp of MiraLax once a day. I was basing it on his stool & going down to 1/8 of a tsp to a pinch, but he is all over the place going from not pooping to normal poop to liquid poop. Do you think the chicken broth could be affecting his stools at all?
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I think my main concern is that he may still have the garditis. I usually give him 1/4 tsp of MiraLax once a day. I was basing it on his stool & going down to 1/8 of a tsp to a pinch, but he is all over the place going from not pooping to normal poop to liquid poop. Do you think the chicken broth could be affecting his stools at all?
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Well, all you can do is experiment with chicken broth/no chicken broth. Is there very much fat in the chicken broth... you know what I mean... if the chicken has skin on it when you boil it, there will be some fat in it. I'd skim that off... just in case. I understand your concern about the giardia... I hope it's gone. Stool tests will tell, I hope.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Well, all you can do is experiment with chicken broth/no chicken broth. Is there very much fat in the chicken broth... you know what I mean... if the chicken has skin on it when you boil it, there will be some fat in it. I'd skim that off... just in case. I understand your concern about the giardia... I hope it's gone. Stool tests will tell, I hope.
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It's boneless skinless chicken breasts. I just fed & put 2 tablespoons of chicken broth & 1 tablespoon of water & I ended up putting fortiflora on both of there food to get them to finish. I think alot of might be that they are picky. I give them 5 different flavors daily & switch it up on them. One day they like a flavor the next day they don't & they do this with all of the flavors. I'm running low on the fancy feast & wanting to switch them to the weruva so maybe I will try some weruva on Friday when I'm off. Hopefully I will know something on Friday about the stool samples but may be Monday before I know. I'm going to try & get a sample as early as I can on Friday & take them straight to the vet.
 
I'm sorry to not be of more help. I don't see how a little chicken broth could affect BG because it wouldn't have any real carbs... I was thinking more of whether or not it would cause any GI issues (I doubt... but that's why I mentioned the fat.) I'm not sure.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
It's boneless skinless chicken breasts. I just fed & put 2 tablespoons of chicken broth & 1 tablespoon of water & I ended up putting fortiflora on both of there food to get them to finish. I think alot of might be that they are picky. I give them 5 different flavors daily & switch it up on them. One day they like a flavor the next day they don't & they do this with all of the flavors. I'm running low on the fancy feast & wanting to switch them to the weruva so maybe I will try some weruva on Friday when I'm off. Hopefully I will know something on Friday about the stool samples but may be Monday before I know. I'm going to try & get a sample as early as I can on Friday & take them straight to the vet.
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Yes. I hate to tell people this... but sometimes our cats are just being picky and playing with us! They know we are going to give them something else if they refuse to eat. It's hard to play "hardball" with our cats when we worry if they will eat... but sometimes I do (it kind of depends on the cat... if it's old and sick, I cannot play "hardball.")
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I'm sorry to not be of more help. I don't see how a little chicken broth could affect BG because it wouldn't have any real carbs... I was thinking more of whether or not it would cause any GI issues (I doubt... but that's why I mentioned the fat.) I'm not sure.
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I don't think it's affecting the his BG at all either. Just wondering if it's to much & messing with his GI maybe, I have no idea. I may increase his dose to 1.25 on Friday depending on how tomorrow goes.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I don't think it's affecting the his BG at all either. Just wondering if it's to much & messing with his GI maybe, I have no idea. I may increase his dose to 1.25 on Friday depending on how tomorrow goes.
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Okay. Well, your spreadsheet says you are following TR so I was thinking you would increase after 6 cycles since he's been in the yellows. He seems stuck there. Remember that, if you hold the dose too long he can get comfortable in the higher numbers (glucose toxicity) and it's harder to bring him back down into better numbers.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. I hate to tell people this... but sometimes our cats are just being picky and playing with us! They know we are going to give them something else if they refuse to eat. It's hard to play "hardball" with our cats when we worry if they will eat... but sometimes I do (it kind of depends on the cat... if it's old and sick, I cannot play "hardball.")
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Yeah they are definitely stinkers that's for sure. My daughter is trying to switch her 2 kitty's over to wet food & the girl kitty is not having it. She said she will eat it eventually if she's hungry enough, I told her no don't do that because some cats will refuse to eat & that can lead to hepatic libidosis. My kitty that passed away from lymphoma cancer in 2007 had hepatic libidosis when my daughter was 3 & then again when she was 7 so she's to young to remember me tube feeding him.
 
You had Panzer x-rayed once not that long ago, right... to check for constipation? And it was okay? I just worry if he struggles to poop and then sometimes has liquid coming out that he could have hard stool stuck in there and then is only passing some liquid around it. Are you doing fiber as well as Miralax?
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I think my main concern is that he may still have the garditis. I usually give him 1/4 tsp of MiraLax once a day. I was basing it on his stool & going down to 1/8 of a tsp to a pinch, but he is all over the place going from not pooping to normal poop to liquid poop. Do you think the chicken broth could be affecting his stools at all?
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Maybe their diet includes too many different flavors/types of cat food? I don't know. It sounds like they are getting so many different types rotated around. Just a thought.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay. Well, your spreadsheet says you are following TR so I was thinking you would increase after 6 cycles since he's been in the yellows. He seems stuck there. Remember that, if you hold the dose too long he can get comfortable in the higher numbers (glucose toxicity) and it's harder to bring him back down into better numbers.
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Yeah I don't want that to happen, I will increase tomorrow morning. I'm working right down the street so I will be able to test & feed before I leave @+4 & then again @+8 when I come home to feed.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Yeah they are definitely stinkers that's for sure. My daughter is trying to switch her 2 kitty's over to wet food & the girl kitty is not having it. She said she will eat it eventually if she's hungry enough, I told her no don't do that because some cats will refuse to eat & that can lead to hepatic libidosis. My kitty that passed away from lymphoma cancer in 2007 had hepatic libidosis when my daughter was 3 & then again when she was 7 so she's to young to remember me tube feeding him.
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:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You had Panzer x-rayed once not that long ago, right... to check for constipation? And it was okay? I just worry if he struggles to poop and then sometimes has liquid coming out that he could have hard stool stuck in there and then is only passing some liquid around it. Are you doing fiber as well as Miralax?
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Yeah he had an x-ray not to long ago & it looked good. That could be because he trys so hard & nothing sometimes. When he has loose stool I catch him & wipe his butt, I don't think he likes that to well. He was up from 16lbs to 17lbs on his last visit maybe he's having a hard time cleaning himself. He might need a soack in the tub just water & a wash cloth. He doesn't get any fiber. What is a good source of fiber for him?
 
There is definitely something wrong with Panzer. He was just growling while licking his butt. He just had mirilax with his +8 feeding & had to have Fortiflora to eat it. I also gave him Cerenia incase he is nauseous. No more chicken broth tomorrow. Don't know if that's the cause or not but I'm not giving it to them anymore.
 
Panzer licked some of his food tried fortiflora, parmesan cheese, chicken broth, ate a tiny bit of baby food with probiotic. Ate half a jar of baby food plain. Tried giving him pumpkin wouldn't touch it. Only gave 1 until of insulin. Hopefully he will eat @+4 .I absolutely have to go to work to make the rest of the rent $ that was due yesterday! I gave him some coconut oil last night shortly after his +8 PMPS feeding licked it up ate all of his food last night. He peed at AMPS feeding no poop so far. He's laying on his perch in my room sleeping now.
 
Panzer ate all of his food @+4 AMPS feeding with fortiflora & lots of coaxing & pooped a very small turd. I really thought I was going to have to syringe feed!
 
Chrispooky12 said:
There is definitely something wrong with Panzer. He was just growling while licking his butt. He just had mirilax with his +8 feeding & had to have Fortiflora to eat it. I also gave him Cerenia incase he is nauseous. No more chicken broth tomorrow. Don't know if that's the cause or not but I'm not giving it to them anymore.
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Do you think his anal glands could be impacted? I have a friend whose cat has this problem every few months. Anyway, with that behavior, I would take him to the vet (sorry) if you can. I’m concerned about constipation also as a possibility if he’s acting like this.
 
Any update? If he poops then you may not have to take him to the vet. Clearly something was hurting him this morning. Poor boy. He can’t seem to catch a break.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Do you think his anal glands could be impacted? I have a friend whose cat has this problem every few months. Anyway, with that behavior, I would take him to the vet (sorry) if you can. I’m concerned about constipation also as a possibility if he’s acting like this.
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He was definitely constipated!I'm not sure I didn't know that was a thing with cats.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Any update? If he poops then you may not have to take him to the vet. Clearly something was hurting him this morning. Poor boy. He can’t seem to catch a break.
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He must have pooped. He's a happy kitty now, & eating. I'm going to look back on the camera after I go to the bank & see if he went. He is eating really good for PMPS & I gave him his increased dose of 1.25. Any ideas on what I can give him for fiber?
 
Hi Chris, Sorry Panzer isn't well. You can give him psyllium powder as fiber in his food. I'd start with a tiny amount, like 1/16 tsp in his meals twice a day. Ruby didn't like canned pumpkin, but I got her freeze dried pumpkin powder from Amazon and I mix it with her food with water and she laps it right up.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
He must have pooped. He's a happy kitty now, & eating. I'm going to look back on the camera after I go to the bank & see if he went. He is eating really good for PMPS & I gave him his increased dose of 1.25. Any ideas on what I can give him for fiber?
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This is a relief! I see Katherine has mentioned psyllium. I think we've talked about that and the freeze dried pumpkin before. Did you ever get any of that stuff?
 
Katherine&Ruby said:
Hi Chris, Sorry Panzer isn't well. You can give him psyllium powder as fiber in his food. I'd start with a tiny amount, like 1/16 tsp in his meals twice a day. Ruby didn't like canned pumpkin, but I got her freeze dried pumpkin powder from Amazon and I mix it with her food with water and she laps it right up.
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Thank you. He's feeling much better today but that doesn't mean it will continue. Panzer doesn't like pumpkin either. I will check both of those items out right now.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
This is a relief! I see Katherine has mentioned psyllium. I think we've talked about that and the freeze dried pumpkin before. Did you ever get any of that stuff?
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Yes I knew when I got home yesterday that he was not acting right, I got maybe 3hrs of sleep last night! I couldn't get him to sleep in my room until after his 4am shot & baby food. I'm glad I gave him the Cerenia. I was afraid if he couldn't poop he would start puking. Luckily I have one box left. I will definitely check those out, poor Panzer has had enough of this crap!
 
Katherine&Ruby said:
Hi Chris, Sorry Panzer isn't well. You can give him psyllium powder as fiber in his food. I'd start with a tiny amount, like 1/16 tsp in his meals twice a day. Ruby didn't like canned pumpkin, but I got her freeze dried pumpkin powder from Amazon and I mix it with her food with water and she laps it right up.
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Which kind of psyllium powder do you buy for Ruby? There's so many different kinds on Amazon.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hey Christina I did a search on here and found this posted by a member
Read post #4 she says what kind of the psyllium husk powder she used , tap on where she has the psyllium husk powder in blue. Sorry Panzer isn't feeling that well :bighug: :bighug:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-5-susie-261-amps.253861/#post-2861718
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Thank you he won't eat his food or baby food, last night or this morning. He ate 2 pieces of lunch meat. I don't know what to do! I'm wondering if this is end of life for both of them!
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Thank you he won't eat his food or baby food, last night or this morning. He ate 2 pieces of lunch meat. I don't know what to do! I'm wondering if this is end of life for both of them!
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No. Panzer is only ten and Spook is younger than that! You say he has had Pancreatitis before. Can you treat it like it was maybe?
 
Wasn’t Panzer going back to the vet for bloodwork after the Doxycycline was finished? Forgive me if I am getting things mixed up….

did he already have it?
 
Chrispooky12 said:
He was supposed to but he was on the metronidazole for the garditis, so he only went for the urinalysis.
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Right. That’s what I thought I remembered. So maybe it’s time to take him for the bloodwork.

Anyway, for pancreatitis you would do a lot of what you are already doing: Cerenia, possibly Ondansetron, giving fluids, pain control if he is in pain. I know your vet won’t give you Buprenorphine (which can also be compounded into a transdermal gel). What did you do last time he had it? I only ask because your signature says he had pancreatitis two times before. Has he eaten anything today? If he’s not eating or drinking, he really will be helped by some sub-q fluids.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Right. That’s what I thought I remembered. So maybe it’s time to take him for the bloodwork.

Anyway, for pancreatitis you would do a lot of what you are already doing: Cerenia, possibly Ondansetron, giving fluids, pain control if he is in pain. I know your vet won’t give you Buprenorphine (which can also be compounded into a transdermal gel). What did you do last time he had it? I only ask because your signature says he had pancreatitis two times before. Has he eaten anything today? If he’s not eating or drinking, he really will be helped by some sub-q fluids.
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I had no knowledge about pancreatitis when he had it years ago. All the vet did was give him the covenia shot. He has eaten a little bit but not much at all. He licked his Fancy feast with fortiflora & parmesan cheese on it. He licked his baby food with probiotic in it. He ate 2 pieces of lunch meat all @ AMPS feeding. He licked his food @+4 AMPS feeding, ate about a tsp of baby food & refused lunch meat. I put mirataz on his ear @+6 AMPS. He again licked his food @+ 8 AMPS, ate a little bit of weruva & ate 3/4 of a jar of baby food. He's been hiding under my bed quite a bit, he's on his perch sleeping in my room now. He has pooped small amounts, the last one was liquid & a significant amount. I got a small sample of it to be tested for garditis, still waiting to get a sample from Spook. I have very little $ left on my care credit & there is no vet in today.I have posted a fundraiser on the DCIN Facebook page, Feline diabetes Facebook page & my Facebook page.
 
I just looked at the picture of the syringe on my post when I started Panzer on Lantus & apparently I increased from 1 unit to 1.5 units. So I guess I have increased to 1.5 units. Doesn't really matter I think he may be at the end of life stages. I have created fund raisers to try & save him but nothing so far!
 
Can you share this picture, Christina? I'm confused. I see you increased from 1 to 1.5 units just yesterday in the PM cycle. Correct? Why did you increase by a whole half unit? If his nadirs are below 300, TR says to increase by .25 units. I'm sorry.
 
Constipation: It's important to know what exactly is needed down below to decide what to use to get things moving. With my cats on a raw diet, they'd occasionally have issues, so years ago I started adding fiber when I make the food (2Tbs/9lbs meat). I generally use psyllium husk powder (whatever's cheapest) but have used guar gum. It's a bit more expensive but gives a smoother texture. My cats have never cared. Here's some info on constipation and the difference between Miralax and soluble fiber and how they work from catinfo.org (scroll down):

The two treatments that will be discussed in this section are Miralax (or its generic equivalent) and soluble fiber (e.g., guar gum, pumpkin, and psyllium).
  • Miralax increases fecal water content without increasing bulk/diameter. It is a laxative (made for humans) that can be found at pharmacies and some grocery stores.
  • Soluble fiber increases fecal water content but also increases bulk. Soluble fiber (versus insoluble fiber) may also play a beneficial role in intestinal health since it is fermented to short chain fatty acids which nourish the cells of the colon and also promote healthy bacteria.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Can you share this picture, Christina? I'm confused. I see you increased from 1 to 1.5 units just yesterday in the PM cycle. Correct? Why did you increase by a whole half unit? If his nadirs are below 300, TR says to increase by .25 units. I'm sorry.
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It's just a picture that of a syringe that Bandit's Mom posted on my 04/30 post comment #9 I believe. My tablet & my phone won't let me post pics on here.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Can you share this picture, Christina? I'm confused. I see you increased from 1 to 1.5 units just yesterday in the PM cycle. Correct? Why did you increase by a whole half unit? If his nadirs are below 300, TR says to increase by .25 units. I'm sorry.
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I didn't realize that I gave him 1.5 units until I looked at that post.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You started out on .5 units Lantus according to your spreadsheet.
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Correct that's what his prozinc dose was. He's had 2 increases since then & I didn't realize that I gave him 1.5 units until I looked at thr picture on my 04-30 post. I will be monitoring him. He ate a little bit of his regular food with fortiflora & chicken broth 40mins ago @PMPS feeding & I opened a can of chicken feast gravy lovers & he ate a tablespoon of that so I gave him another one & he licked the bowl clean. I realize it's higher carb but the important thing is for him to eat. I will give him the rest @+4 PMPS feeding, hopefully he will eat it. He's was hot to the touch earlier but he's not anymore.
 
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