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Susan for Maus (GA)

Susan for Maus (GA)

Member Since 2022
Hello, my name is Susan and I'm Artemis's mom; we call her Maus & she'll be 13 in June. She was diagnosed last week & I've been giving her 1 unit of Vestulin 2x daily.

Do any of you have experience managing diabetes in a cat who is really a sweetheart but simply does not like to be touched? I get especially anxious when I think I've missed a dose, but have no way to monitor.

Our story:
Maus is a very small indoor/outdoor cat (we're very rural), normally weighing ~8.5 lbs. She's been on a mouse & Dr. Pierson's raw diet for her entire life. Until now, has never been sick, & is kept current on all shots & checkups. Last blood-work (before now) was 2017 as precautionary & completely normal.

She started vomiting excessively in December. I asked for the blood-work to cover bases. Because of her size & lifestyle diabetes was pondered, but not determined. She leveled out, then got worse in March.

12/23: glu, 293, possible pacreatitis. Sent home with 7 days of nausea meds & told to give Pepcid for what seemed like reflux
3/22: glu 388. Sent home with 7 days of nausea meds, Science Diet i/d. Won't eat the i/d so back to raw.
3/29: glu 409, diabetes

I can upload her full lab report if that would help

Sent home with Vestulin (1unit 2x daily) & book followup blood-work in 2 wks. Also given a printout of Managing Diabetes Mellitus in Cats VIN. I'm accustomed to vaccinating my cats, so I'm mostly okay. Don't be too harsh on my vet, she's a country doc in a clinic that also treats cows, horses, sheep, etc. & I'm sure would not have been surprised if I'd said I wasn't going to pursue treatment. That's not me though, ignorance is bliss & I decided to give it till the insulin ran out & see how we're doing. Hubby reluctantly agrees. At least she's on the right diet & is much improved already.

My dilema: The more I know, the more I'm stressed & don't know if this is something 'we' can manage. This is a cat who will abide short sessions of light petting (brush required) and really does not like to be held or confined/constrained in any way. I've joked that if this cat ever relies on a pill to stay alive, she dead & I've pilled a lot of cats.

I am able to do the insulin shots, but on 3 occasions felt a bit of wet fur, so I think I missed. She's got fairly long fur & it's hard to navigate with the squirming. After the first miss and much reading on this forum, I purchased a Relion meter & all the trappings, but haven't come close to holding her still enough for an ear prick, & even if I did, now wonder if without a genetic mutation that sprouts another hand, I'll be able to hold her long enough to gather the blood. This kid has claws (another challenging interaction).

Also, I've started tagging along on my husband's international work trips, and while I have a great house-sitter, this is more. A lot more.

I've filled out the spreadsheet, but there are no readings because I haven't been able to hold her long enough. I did enter the glucose readings from the vet at the top. It's not saved in the signature; I get a possible spam error when I try to save it & now am getting the same error when I try to update my profile info. The link can be found in my profile, accidentally entered as my website. Happy accident?

I realize this may not be your typical plea and I'm not even 100% sure what I'm asking for, but know that I really do love Artemis & take my responsibility as her caretaker seriously, but I also feel like I'm being hit with a sour dose of I don't even know what. All of my cats have lived to 18-20 & I just am not ready for this: not ready for this diagnosis, not sure 'we' can do the treatment, but also not ready to put her down.

Thank you for this great resource, I've learned a lot already (maybe too much)

Susan
 
Hi and welcome Susan and Maus to the forum.
I’ll ask @Bandit's Mom to help you with getting the spreadsheet in the right place, she will contact you.
You need to feed Maus 30 minutes before you give the insulin so that you have food aboard before the insulin hits.
With giving the injection, have you tried letting her eat some food while you do the injection? This often helps by distracting them.
The same thing can apply when testing the blood glucose. Get everything ready, then given her something to eat while you test. If you can get the drop of blood, you can get it on your fingernail and transfer it to the test strip if she won’t stay still long enough.
HOMETESTING LINKS AND TIPS

Another option is to have a freestyle libre fitted to Maus which lasts 2 weeks and will give you continuous BG readings.

I’m glad you have gone back to raw diet as the Science diet I/d is very high carb and not suitable for DKA cats.
Do you have a hypo kit set up in case of low numbers? Here is a link to what you need plus other useful information
HELP US HELP YOU
If you could upload her lab results that would be great thank you.

BEGINNERS GUIDE TO VETSULIN will give you some information about using vetsulin.

We do have cats arrive here that are not cooperative with testing, but we mostly have success with them so don’t give up. Keep posting and asking for help. If one thing doesn’t work we will think of another.
Bron
 
Thank you for the reply.

Yes, thanks to this forum, I did learn to feed her 30 mins prior. She won't let me touch her while she's eating & I've found that just after she eats is best (full belly). I've even tried when she's asleep (thought I might get an ear prick) but any touch startled her into full alert, even if I spoke &/or gentle pet as I approached. Best if she sees me coming. This cat is outside a lot & is extremely wary.

I've watched umpteen ear prick videos with the cat just sitting there getting what seems a normal head rub and I'm like: oh man I wish, nope, not my cat :rolleyes:

Thanks for the fingernail tip, that could end up being the method of choice

I wasn't able to use the Upload a File button, error said I don't have permission, so I uploaded it to google. Hopefully this Artemis Labs doc link works

Yes, I have most of the emergency kit together & have read through most of the Vetsulin Beginners Guide and several posts from that forum.

I'll keep trying for the ear pricks. At this point, does it matter when, or just get it when I can & keep track of the time? I inject her regularly at 8am & 8pm but she's getting wise, especially as she feels better and is starting to hide & struggle more. It's like the better I can get her feeling, the harder it'll be :facepalm:

Thanks again -Susan

ps: it just occurred to me, I'm using Firefox web browser. I'll log in using Chrome & see if that makes a diff uploading & saving my profile & sig

edit: Switching to Chrome worked, I have resaved my signature with the spreadsheet & labs links
 
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Hi Susan and welcome, Maus is a beautiful cat, what colors and what amazing eyes! Have you considered a burrito-wrap swaddle approach? You probably have and it is just not an option with Maus, I expect.

Is there zero chance at conditioning? check out this amazing post from @Elizabeth and Bertie:

Elizabeth and Bertie said:
It can take time. So do be patient with yourself. (((Hugs)))

With both of my diabetics the key to success with testing has been 'desensitization' and 'counter conditioning'.
My first diabetic was a large and strong willed cat, and there was no way I'd be able to test unless he was OK with that... My current diabetic girl absolutely hates having her ears touched, so she presented a particularly difficult challenge at first (Note: some cats are fine with paw testing, but my girl hates her feet being touched too...)
Neither of my cats has tolerated being held or restrained in any way at all. So, I've had to use 'distraction' to keep them relatively still while I quickly test.
I could distract my first diabetic with some crushed cat treats and test him while he was hoovering up the treat crumbs. My diabetic girl likes to be brushed. So, I just sneak a test into the middle of a little brushing/grooming session and she barely notices. Singing to her while I brush her seems to help too... :rolleyes: ....This did take a bit of time, but with patience and persistence all kinds of things are possible...

With both my cats I've had to go slowly, introducing just a very low level aspect of testing at first, but not enough to spook or upset them.
....This is something that I wrote for another group, just copying it here in case it's helpful...

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GETTING KITTY USED TO BEING TESTED - ‘DESENSITISATION’
Some kitties take to being tested like proverbial ‘ducks to water’, they are just not bothered by it at all. Other kitties take a bit more work, and with a minority of kitties it can take a quite a bit of dedicated effort to get them used to the process.
Please be reassured that ‘most’ kitties can be tested, and ‘most’ people can learn to do it. Honestly!

One really useful way to get kitties used to testing is to ‘desensitise’ them to the sensations and sounds involved in the test process. And a really good thing to do at first is just to get them more used to having their ears touched.
So, whenever you are stroking or cuddling the kitty use that opportunity to include very gentle ‘ear touching’ when you stroke them, just for a second at first. Make ear touching ‘ordinary’ and nothing to fear...

You can also go to wherever the cat is chilling out, then stroke them, hold or massage an ear for a second or two, and then immediately reward with a yummy treat and some praise. This starts to condition them to associate ear touching with rewards. And this is what you want to happen.

You can also get them used to the test kit itself. For example, you can rattle the test strip container, or click the lancing device a few times (it can be used a bit like a training clicker), and immediately give the kitty a treat. Then just walk away, leaving them with their reward. They can soon come to associate those sounds with rewards just like when they hear the sound of the can opener...

I did these kinds of desensitisation techniques with my kitties about 6 or 7 times a day at first during the first couple of weeks. It only takes a minute or two each time, maybe only seconds. But that repetition is key to success. Repetition, repetition, repetition...

It can be often be helpful at first to test in the same location so as to establish a routine. I tested my first diabetic on a table top. I test my current girl in her favourite armchair. You can get the kitty used to the test spot by taking or calling them there and just rewarding them with strokes or brushing, or treats.
Make the test spot a place where nice things happen.
If you can get the kitty to the test spot and hold or massage an ear for a second or two and then reward with a treat and praise, you really are most of the way to being able to test on a regular basis.

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HOMETESTING TIPS & TRICKS

1. WARM EARS. Probably THE most important thing. Warm ears bleed very much more easily than cold ones. You can warm an ear by massaging it, or by holding something warm against it; ie a pill bottle filled with warm water, or a ‘rice sock’ briefly warmed in the microwave.

2. MASSAGING immediately below the ear prick, with finger and thumb, can ‘milk’ more blood out. I almost always do this, if only for a second or two.

3. VASELINE. A teensy weensy smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear will enable the blood to ‘bead up’ and stops it disappearing into the fur. This also makes it easier to see the blood droplet if the kitty has dark ears.

4. RESISTANCE. The lancet needs something to ‘resist’ otherwise it can push the ear away rather than pricking it effectively. Some folks use a piece of cotton wool or folded tissue. I use one of my fingers, but sometimes do accidentally take a blood sample from myself that way.

5. TWO EAR PRICKS close together can often produce enough blood for a test when one ear prick might not.

6. SCOOPING THE BLOOD DROP ONTO YOUR FINGERNAIL. Doing this is a game-changer for some people. If you can get that drop of blood on your finger or thumb nail you can then let the kitty go and finish the test without her/him.

7. TREATS. It is important to reward the kitty for each attempted test, whether the test was ‘successful’ or not. Cats very soon learn to associate tests with treats. And some will soon come running for their tests. A ‘treat’ is usually a food reward of some kind, but some folks reward their kitties with a cuddle or a grooming session. I actually crumble a few treats for my cat and test him while he’s hoovering up the crumbs.

Remember to reward yourself too. Chocolate is good…

8. GET COMFORTABLE. If you are physically comfortable you’ll be more relaxed, and also less likely to try to rush the process. Some people like to test their cats on a counter top or a desk, maybe next to a desk lamp. Some people prefer to hold their cats on their laps when they test. Some folks incorporate testing into a grooming session. You’ll find what works best for you. And once you get used to home testing you’ll quite possibly be able to do it anywhere, and maybe even while the kitty is asleep.

9. RELAX. Cats pick up on our moods. The more relaxed and ‘matter of fact’ we are, the more relaxed and confident the kitty is likely to be. Some people chat or sing to their cats while they test him. Try it. It might help you too.

10. PATIENCE. Be kind to yourself. You’re learning something new. (And you’re learning something wonderful!)

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Re desensitization and counter conditioning, there is a good little video here showing a real life example. The (very fast talking!) vet in this vid is getting a food-motivated cat used to injections. But the principles of desensitization and counter conditioning can be used in many situations.


Eliz
Click to expand...
 
Great tips, thank you. I have started giving her little pets & ear rubs & hope this will help. We've been trying to condition her to holding since she was a wee one

What do you-all use for treats that I can get on Amazon or make at home? I'm a little remote, so getting to a real store isn't an everyday option. I've been using sardines; happen to have a couple tins
 
Susan for Artemis said:
Great tips, thank you. I have started giving her little pets & ear rubs & hope this will help. We've been trying to condition her to holding since she was a wee one

What do you-all use for treats that I can get on Amazon or make at home? I'm a little remote, so getting to a real store isn't an everyday option. I've been using sardines; happen to have a couple tins
Click to expand...
Maus IS beautiful! I am sorry you are feeling the stress and pressure of the initial enormity of this all! My advice to you is to just dive in and try getting the routine down. What do you have to loose? I felt that if i thought too far into the future it really got me down.
I now have a diabetic with pancreatitis on a pretty easy schedule ( so getting over the learning / beginning curve is the biggest battle)
Wishing you all the best and to answer your question.
I use inaba churu ( cats love them) and pure bites freeze dried chicken for treats.
Both can be ordered on chewy.com
 
Hooray, I was able to do the first test: 388, yikes, I guess I did miss the morning
Gave her a tiny bit of sardines to distract & although she squirmed a lot, she finally quieted enough for me to poke then scrape off enough onto my nail. I think eventually I can go straight to the stick.
Fed, waited 30 mins then gave 1u. Will try to retest 1 hour after eating
 
Susan for Artemis said:
Hooray, I was able to do the first test: 388, yikes, I guess I did miss the morning
Gave her a tiny bit of sardines to distract & although she squirmed a lot, she finally quieted enough for me to poke then scrape off enough onto my nail. I think eventually I can go straight to the stick.
Fed, waited 30 mins then gave 1u. Will try to retest 1 hour after eating
Click to expand...
Congrats! Take those victory laps ( they get more and more frequent as you go along)
 
We tested last night 2hrs after feeding: 243
This morning before food: 417
I fed, will wait 30 mins then inject

Thank you for the Hendrick pokey, the headlamp is a brilliant idea & really makes a diff
 
251 @ +2
I'm keeping the spreadsheet up to date & will look to see when I should test again.

I'll also forward this info to my vet.

I put down some food & she's eating, very hungry. She's accustomed to eating whenever but I've been cutting off food for a bit before injection to be sure she eats 30 mins before. Should I be regulating her feeding schedule? She needs the weight

More reading but I also must get some work done today. Luckily, I work from home & she's very happy to be an office cat
 
if I didn't WFH my boy would be....ok I can't talk about that. *deep breath*

great job getting the SS going! It seems so recently that I was only beginning to populate data on mine, you'll paint a picture soon.

Most members feed fairly regularly -- the shot-time meal (larger) then a snack at 1 hour after shot, 2 hours after shot (+2), and maybe a final snack around +4 or +6 hours after shot. Lots of people don't feed after that, as the insulin is wearing off. But others add in a small snack at like 9 hours after shot (aka +9).

when you think maybe you didn't administer the insulin, the proper notation on your SS is "fur shot" or "PFS" for partial fur shot/possible fur shot. Just in case you don't know, never re-shoot if you think you missed. Too dangerous. Lots of people have thought they missed, re-shot, and ended up with a hypo kitty from an insulin overdose. Better to have no insulin for 12 hours than too much. MUCH better.
 
Well done getting the Ss up and running and getting those attests done….great information.. keep it up!
If you get a test during the cycle and it’s lower than the preshot, I would try and get another one sometime within the next few hours to make sure sure the BG isn’t dropping too low. If the BG is a lot lower, then I would test again sooner rather than later.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you get a test during the cycle and it’s lower than the preshot, I would try and get another one sometime within the next few hours to make sure sure the BG isn’t dropping too low. If the BG is a lot lower, then I would test again sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

Thanks, good info.

She sees me coming now & scoots. Got away a couple times so the second test was delayed. It's amazing how strong she is. I think I went through half a dozen test strips for 2 tests

The struggle is real
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you get a test during the cycle and it’s lower than the preshot, I would try and get another one sometime within the next few hours to make sure sure the BG isn’t dropping too low. If the BG is a lot lower, then I would test again sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Looking at my chart, I have a question: the preshot this morning was 451: don't I want to be below that? The second was 251 (+2), the third back up to 452 (+6) & the third back to 296 (+10). The 452 seemed alarming to me.

The third was such a struggle it took several attempts and an hour past when I started. I couldn't bring myself to test again an hour and a half later to pretest before her evening injection. I'll test again: 2 or 3 hours?
 
They are very strong when they want to be!
With vetsulin, it is really an insulin made for dogs and is not recommended for cats as there are much more suitable insulins for cats such as Lantus or Prozinc. Once everything settles down a bit, I would recommend looking at one of those insulins as Maus will do much better on them.
At the moment vetsulin hits hard and fast and only lasts 6 to 8 hours, whereas Lantus and prozinc are much more gentle insulins and last 12 hours. So once you get to 12 hours with vetsulin, you are going to have a high preshot BG again because the insulin has well and truly worn off.
The +10 of 296 was a bit unusual after the +6 of 452.
The 452 indicates the insulin has worn off. While she is on the vetsulin if you get a higher number as you did at +6, I wouldn’t bother testing again until the next preshot.
@Hendrick's mom and dad gave you a good idea of snacks for Maus. They will help stop a big fast drop which can trigger bounces.
As you didn’t test at the preshot I would get another test in around + 3. That was quite a drop at +1
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would get another test in around + 3
Click to expand...
She was 218 at +3 tonight.
I've been letting her snack throughout the day (what she's accustomed to), then held back an hour before the PMPS so she would eat 30 mins ahead of injection. Her appetite's been good without being ravenous. I just give her the Pierson diet raw chicken & a tiny bit of sardines as a treat after poking. When I made the chicken mix this last time, I made bone broth (just bones & water) & substituted the it for most of the water.

I don't think I'll be able to test again before morning; I have a very busy work day tomorrow & really need the sleep. I'm pretty exhausted
 
I meant to add that I think you are managing it all really well considering it was only yesterday you arrived here and we’re not sure how you would go with it all and if you could test her. Well done both of you!
She is a sweetheart…..she reminds me to look at of a Burmese tortie I have years ago called Ming.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I meant to add that I think you are managing it all really well considering it was only yesterday you arrived here and we’re not sure how you would go with it all and if you could test her. Well done both of you!
She is a sweetheart…..she reminds me to look at of a Burmese tortie I have years ago called Ming.
Click to expand...
agreed @Susan for Artemis you seem to be really making huge progress! (fingers still crossed for you and Maus)
 
I can't imagine where I'd be if I hadn't found this group. Thank you all for your support, I'd be lost without you. As you know and have experienced yourselves, many peaks and valleys. Things were feeling a bit beyond my means just 2 days ago, I went to bed pretty wiped out & cried a bit in my pillow. Then for some reason, I checked this forum at 12:30am & there was the message boost I needed. :bighug:

Yesterday went much better although the +6 test still took 3 test strips. It was a beautiful day in the Pacific Northwest, perfect for a soul regenerating forest bath. We live in a great place for a kittie be outside & is where she's happiest, frequently coming home smelling of neighbors barn.

No matter how this thing plays out, I plan to give her as many of these days as we can manage
 

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awww she is so beautiful!! what a picture, the little kitty and tall trees in the background. I used to live in NorCal but my brother was in Port Angeles WA for a while and hiked some mountains there, I am a NE guy born and raised and in my heart BUT the Pacific NW is something special
 
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