New Doctor

[PattyandBuddy]

Buddy's Dr. quit and the Dr's new replacement at the same practice called me back today. This call lasted for 25 min with him mainly talking. I appreciate the call but I found him to be really intense. I think I was able to get 2 questions in, as I didn't want to take up any more of his time after he spent 25 min educating me.

Here are some of the things he said:

-Buddy should not be on Fancy Feast and needs only prescription food. Purina prescription.
-He saw my excel spread sheet and said he couldn't make any decisions based off it. He also said "to be quite honest I found it to be a bit challenging to read"
-He wants Buddy on 1 unit of insulin until he meets him and he said he needs to see him asap.
-he said he does not do insulin increases without a visit and testing
-He said remission should not be seen as optimistic and he hardly ever sees it happen.
-He wants Buddy to come in weekly at first and he said he likes to do tons of testing and it will all depend on my budget.
-He wants Buddy to have a glucose monitor attached to his skin for 2 weeks so he can get data every 15 min.
-He said he will stop and drop clients if he doesn't see them as good fits...that made me a little sad to hear.

My gut said to look for a new Dr. but I am not sure....He graduated in 2019.

If anyone has a Dr. suggestion in the San Diego area or near please let me know. I'm willing to drive over 100 miles.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Just a few comments on your phone call with the new vet.
I would not worry about taking up his time.....remember you are Buddy's advocate and are perfectly entitled to ask questions. A vet/doctor who does not listen to a caregiver is missing out on a lot of information.

Buddy should not be on Fancy Feast and needs only prescription food. Purina prescription.

Not true....goes to show how little he knows about diabetes, or he's brainwashed by the big pet food companies

He saw my excel spread sheet and said he couldn't make any decisions based off it. He also said "to be quite honest I found it to be a bit challenging to read"

I'm lost for words. The information he needs to make a decision on the dose is right before him.

He wants Buddy on 1 unit of insulin until he meets him and he said he needs to see him asap.

I can't see where seeing him will change the information on the SS.

he said he does not do insulin increases without a visit and testing

That's code for lots of money in his pocket. Testing at the clinic will give a higher than normal BG due to stress. Much better and safer to rely on the tests at home

He said remission should not be seen as optimistic and he hardly ever sees it happen.

I wonder how many FD cats he has treated. And maybe the way he treats them is why they don't go into remission.

He wants Buddy to come in weekly at first and he said he likes to do tons of testing and it will all depend on my budget.

Code for lots of money out of your pocket into his. The only testing that is needed is hometesting the BG at this point.

He wants Buddy to have a glucose monitor attached to his skin for 2 weeks so he can get data every 15 min.

Completely unnecessary because you are hometesting and doing a fine job of it. All the evidence he will need is in the SS.

He said he will stop and drop clients if he doesn't see them as good fits...that made me a little sad to hear.

Oh my goodness!.....How to win clients and influence people He needs a course in public relations. I would drop him now. He is not interested in working
with you. Its his way or the highway.

My gut said to look for a new Dr. but I am not sure..

Your gut is spot on.

Sorry to be so cynical....but I think your new vet (graduated 2019) is still a bit wet behind the ears and he's trying to make an impression. They obviously don't teach them how to treat caregivers at Uni.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

Thank you so much for your reply, @Bron and Sheba (GA) !
"A vet/doctor who does not listen to a caregiver is missing out on a lot of information." You are so right, I never thought to think that. Next time I will be much more confident to ask questions going in.

I didn't want to put that device on my poor Buddy. I am relieved to hear that is completely unnecessary!!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

When I was training to be a nurse, one of the specialist doctors lecturing us said…”always listen to the mother and what she has to say, as she will give you more information than you will get any other place” ……and it is true with animals as well. I’ve never forgotten that.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

When I was training to be a nurse, one of the specialist doctors lecturing us said…”always listen to the mother and what she has to say, as she will give you more information than you will get any other place” ……and it is true with animals as well. I’ve never forgotten that.

All Doctors and Vets should have that quote in their offices to remember .

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I totally get the SS being confusing at first. I mean I remember looking at that thing and it was like a foreign language, acronyms I didn't know, etc etc.
But someone who is in that position of providing veterinary care, I don't know maybe it's unrealistic but I have an expectation that they would be able to noodle through it and figure it out. Lots of laypeople have done so, but a vet can't?

Many, many members have shared their SS with their vets over the years and I don't think anyone has ever gotten THAT reaction. My vet's response was "you're doing a great job those numbers look really good, stay with 2u as the dose"

now, I disagreed (we were pretty much all yellows, reds and pinks back then) -- but at least they looked and offered their analysis/opinion.

I have to say I concur with Bron, not a great start with this young vet. Also the notion that Buddy cannot eat anything but the purina is just ludicrous. Even if he didn't get into it, I bet he also believes Buddy should only be fed every 12 hours.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

I totally get the SS being confusing at first. I mean I remember looking at that thing and it was like a foreign language, acronyms I didn't know, etc etc.
But someone who is in that position of providing veterinary care, I don't know maybe it's unrealistic but I have an expectation that they would be able to noodle through it and figure it out. Lots of laypeople have done so, but a vet can't?

Many, many members have shared their SS with their vets over the years and I don't think anyone has ever gotten THAT reaction. My vet's response was "you're doing a great job those numbers look really good, stay with 2u as the dose"

now, I disagreed (we were pretty much all yellows, reds and pinks back then) -- but at least they looked and offered their analysis/opinion.

I have to say I concur with Bron, not a great start with this young vet. Also the notion that Buddy cannot eat anything but the purina is just ludicrous. Even if he didn't get into it, I bet he also believes Buddy should only be fed every 12 hours.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing about him looking at my SS! If he truly didn’t understand it he could have asked me to write the times and dates of Buddy’s glucose numbers and resend it. I would have been happy to do so! I bet he glanced at it and said forget it.
I also got the impression he made the assumptions I wanted to be “the Dr.” since I said I have looked up information online. He even did a Socratic question and asked me “so tell me what are the 4 signs of feline diabetes?” That was a real red flag for me because my biggest pet peeve is Socratic questions from my bosses. I hate it!!

The other red flag for me (if there wasn’t a ton already) was after I got off the phone my anxiety was triggered….Very overwhelming personality of a Dr.

The good news is I called this morning with another vet and they are happy to take Buddy!! I let them know Buddy is diabetic and I would like all follow up treatment with them. Thank god. I thought it would be harder for them to want to take on a diabetic cat

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

This jackass didn't quit, he just abandoned you. No doubt he's blabbed all about you being difficult to the other doctor so the whole atmosphere there is toxic. I wonder how he treats his staff. The whole business of doctors intimidating patients is something I've experienced with my own medical mysteries. I once produced a bottle of Percocets to prove I wasn't after drugs and that just made someone red in the face. As hard as it might be just let this go and try and have a good weekend. I still get irate thinking about the eight neurologists who just made a best guess about me. The ninth, the only woman in the bunch, actually listened to me and was not dismissive at all. She figured out the whole thing in one visit at her tiny desk in her tiny office. And I didn't have to call her Doctor Actually, she introduced herself as Paula.
I did my spreadsheets in Excel and my vet understood them immediately although my two and three day averages were a bit over the top. She was on the phone with us AM and PM for 14 straight days until she finally set us free. She's not Doctor anything, everyone calls her Deb and she gives real bearhugs, not those politically correct stand three feet apart kind of a hug. Her dad was a vet too, vets like that are out there and I've always had the best luck picking them.

Code for lots of money out of your pocket...still a bit wet behind the ears.

My guess is he has a huge shelf of Purina products, probably some stock options as well. I know it's not a charity, maybe he should have gone into plastic surgery with his own TV show. The dampness around his ears is probably the morality part of his brain slowly oozing it's contents.
Good luck, know who your friends are and always question authority. It shouldn't be this hard, ever.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

The dampness around his ears is probably the morality part of his brain slowly oozing it's contents

your posts are the best lol

 

[FrostD]

Im glad Bron got to this before I did, I'm on a heck of a streak with bad newbie vets. The "PC" part of my brain is only like 10% functional right now

I agree with everything Bron said. I'm glad.you.got ahold of a new vet!

 

[PattyandBuddy]

This jackass didn't quit, he just abandoned you. No doubt he's blabbed all about you being difficult to the other doctor so the whole atmosphere there is toxic. I wonder how he treats his staff. The whole business of doctors intimidating patients is something I've experienced with my own medical mysteries. I once produced a bottle of Percocets to prove I wasn't after drugs and that just made someone red in the face. As hard as it might be just let this go and try and have a good weekend. I still get irate thinking about the eight neurologists who just made a best guess about me. The ninth, the only woman in the bunch, actually listened to me and was not dismissive at all. She figured out the whole thing in one visit at her tiny desk in her tiny office. And I didn't have to call her Doctor Actually, she introduced herself as Paula.
I did my spreadsheets in Excel and my vet understood them immediately although my two and three day averages were a bit over the top. She was on the phone with us AM and PM for 14 straight days until she finally set us free. She's not Doctor anything, everyone calls her Deb and she gives real bearhugs, not those politically correct stand three feet apart kind of a hug. Her dad was a vet too, vets like that are out there and I've always had the best luck picking them.

My guess is he has a huge shelf of Purina products, probably some stock options as well. I know it's not a charity, maybe he should have gone into plastic surgery with his own TV show. The dampness around his ears is probably the morality part of his brain slowly oozing it's contents.
Good luck, know who your friends are and always question authority. It shouldn't be this hard, ever.

Hi Noah, you are right..I was def abandoned. Yea.. I wouldn't want to be his employee or married to him that's for sure. lol
I'm sorry to hear all your bad experiences with Drs. I too have had my fair share. I once was having constant panic attacks that took over my life at one point and I would run to the ER/Urgent care with panic attacks semi frequently.... one Dr. got fed up and said "you aren't sick and nothing is wrong with you ...and you know that." So sassy! I actually didn't know I was ok at the time....that's why I was there....I don't go to Drs for the fun.

This whole industry needs to learn to be much more gentle and patient.
I am happy that you found Deb. I hope I can find my Deb!

 

[PattyandBuddy]

Im glad Bron got to this before I did, I'm on a heck of a streak with bad newbie vets. The "PC" part of my brain is only like 10% functional right now

I agree with everything Bron said. I'm glad.you.got ahold of a new vet!

Me too! I haven't broke the news to the other vet I am not continuing with him.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

I have a question about one of the documents he sent me.

Here is the document:

"Diabetic cat’s insulin requirements vary significantly for a variety of reasons – concurrent disease, stress (including
boarding stress), nutrition, a,pmg ptjers. For this reason, we require regular monitoring of diabetic patients.
During the regulatory phase, cats should be monitored by the hospital ever 1 to 3 months.
Crashing cats refer to hypoglycemia – one of the serious potential complications of managing a diabetic cat.
Diabetic Management Protocols:

A: Regulatory Phase: Must examine patient once a week for 4 to 6 weeks
B: Maintenance Phase: Must examine patient every 1 to 3 months
C: Failure of adhering to protocols may result in termination of the doctor-patient relationship."

Did you go this often to the vet for exams when your cat was first diagnosed? I don't want to go if it's not necessary for Buddy and I.... and I don't want to be taken advantage of. I don't know what a normal experience with a newly diabetic cat should be like at a vet.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

If you are hometesting the BGs you most certainly don’t need to go to the vet at all except for other illnesses or you need a new prescription of the insulin.
The regulatory and maintainance phases he mentions really amuse me…..Because that implies that the cat will be regulated after going to the vet weekly for a month or 6 weeks. And then the cat only need be checked every 1 to 3 months as it is in the maintenance phase. All sounds very text book to me….and trust me most cats don’t read the rule book!

Anyone who has looked after a diabetic cat on a day to day basis will tell you that there is no set time that a cat will be regulated. It might be 4 weeks or it might be a year…..or never. Every cat is different. And anything can happen inbetween vet visits.
That is why hometesting is so important…..you are in control and you should not have to deal with a ‘crashing’ cat because you will be dealing with the lower numbers and adjusting the dose before that happens.
Now that you have the insulin, you do not need to go back to the vet unless you come across another issue. We can help you on a daily basis with dosing and support.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

If you are hometesting the BGs you most certainly don’t need to go to the vet at all except for other illnesses or you need a new prescription of the insulin.
The regulatory and maintainance phases he mentions really amuse me…..Because that implies that the cat will be regulated after going to the vet weekly for a month or 6 weeks. And then the cat only need be checked every 1 to 3 months as it is in the maintenance phase. All sounds very text book to me….and trust me most cats don’t read the rule book!

Anyone who has looked after a diabetic cat on a day to day basis will tell you that there is no set time that a cat will be regulated. It might be 4 weeks or it might be a year…..or never. Every cat is different. And anything can happen inbetween vet visits.
That is why hometesting is so important…..you are in control and you should not have to deal with a ‘crashing’ cat because you will be dealing with the lower numbers and adjusting the dose before that happens.
Now that you have the insulin, you do not need to go back to the vet unless you come across another issue. We can help you on a daily basis with dosing and support.

Thank you! That makes total sense.

I wonder if Dr.'s who treat humans tell them to come back once a week for 6 weeks for diabetes and if they don't follow protocol they are dropped as a patient. That would be so stressful

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thank you! That makes total sense.

I wonder if Dr.'s who treat humans tell them to come back once a week for 6 weeks for diabetes and if they don't follow protocol they are dropped as a patient. That would be so stressful

I doubt it! They are taught to monitor themselves for a start. And are taught about food etc. No prescription food for them.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

your posts are the best

Thank you for that. There's no self pity in this, most of us are damaged in some way. I have low grade PTSD, score at the low end of bipolar and some other stuff at the bottom of my profile. I can be thoughtful and insightful one day (it's not an act), then spew verbal diarrhea the next. It's not anger, it just depends which way the wind is blowing.
You my friend are one of the few new members who have jumped into the deep end without any tears and a real willingness to help others. It's more uncommon than you might think. Okay everyone, were done with the mutual admiration thing.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

I too have had my fair share. I once was having constant panic attacks that took over my life....One Dr. got fed up and said "you aren't sick and nothing is wrong with you ...and you know that."....I don't go to Drs for the fun.
This whole industry needs to learn to be much more gentle and patient.

Real panic attacks are much worse than people imagine. Some people have gotten quite comfortable becoming agoraphobic in the last two years, I'm one of them. Why on Earth would any nurse or doctor think we want to be there? Twenty years ago I bent my wrist into a pretzel and was rushed in without any medical card and on morphine without being asked "On a scale of 1 to 10". Today they'd ask you how things were at home, do you self cut, how would you characterize your mother.
Compassion doesn't have to be time consuming. When my wrist didn't heal 100% I got a simple hand on my shoulder, "I'm sorry, this is as good as it's going to get". When I was freaked about all that platinum in the back of my brain I was shown my MRI and got the same hand on my shoulder, "See, it's a part of you now and it's working perfectly". Some doctors and vets seem to be born arrogant asses. Mine are all female, listen to me and know I'm there for a good reason. The system is broken, I hope it's not too late to fix it.

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Like everyone else said, get a new vet.

I suggest creating a post asking for members in your area for a vet recommendations. There is also a directory to find cat only vets near you. https://catvets.com/

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I think there are likely a number of factors to consider regarding the frequency of vet visits. If your cat was critically ill at the time of diagnosis, the vet may want to see your kitty more often. However, I would hope they would do considerable education as to what symptoms to look for that could indicate a problem. I would also hope they would call to follow up to see if you were having problems with giving insulin, etc. Often human patients who are in the hospital are scheduled for an outpatient follow-up appointment within 2 weeks of being discharged.

When I moved from Chicago to Columbus, I obviously started with a new vet. We had a meeting before I brought my kitty in to the clinic so I could actually see the clinic and how it operated (i.e., I wasn't going to take my cat to a cat only practice that reeked of urine -- which it didn't) and get a feel for the vet. I brought my laptop with spreadsheet. Her reaction was that I knew what I was doing. Just like with your own doctors, you want a vet who is a partner in your cat's care and who values your input. Cats behave entirely differently when at the vet's office. You are the best observer of your cat's normal behavior.

You might suggest that you stop and drop vets who don't like to listen especially since you're paying his salary.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

I doubt it! They are taught to monitor themselves for a start. And are taught about food etc. No prescription food for them.

!!

 

[PattyandBuddy]

Thank you for that. There's no self pity in this, most of us are damaged in some way. I have low grade PTSD, score at the low end of bipolar and some other stuff at the bottom of my profile. I can be thoughtful and insightful one day (it's not an act), then spew verbal diarrhea the next. It's not anger, it just depends which way the wind is blowing.
You my friend are one of the few new members who have jumped into the deep end without any tears and a real willingness to help others. It's more uncommon than you might think. Okay everyone, were done with the mutual admiration thing.

haha Thank you..I have had some close to tears/mental breakdowns for sure. It's nice to hear someone else share their life experiences. It helps! I have a friend who takes lithium for bipolar disorder so I am a little familiar with it. They have diagnosed me with general anxiety disorder so I am always worried or stressed about something but I have had big improvement with my meds.

 

[PattyandBuddy]

I think there are likely a number of factors to consider regarding the frequency of vet visits. If your cat was critically ill at the time of diagnosis, the vet may want to see your kitty more often. However, I would hope they would do considerable education as to what symptoms to look for that could indicate a problem. I would also hope they would call to follow up to see if you were having problems with giving insulin, etc. Often human patients who are in the hospital are scheduled for an outpatient follow-up appointment within 2 weeks of being discharged.

When I moved from Chicago to Columbus, I obviously started with a new vet. We had a meeting before I brought my kitty in to the clinic so I could actually see the clinic and how it operated (i.e., I wasn't going to take my cat to a cat only practice that reeked of urine -- which it didn't) and get a feel for the vet. I brought my laptop with spreadsheet. Her reaction was that I knew what I was doing. Just like with your own doctors, you want a vet who is a partner in your cat's care and who values your input. Cats behave entirely differently when at the vet's office. You are the best observer of your cat's normal behavior.

You might suggest that you stop and drop vets who don't like to listen especially since you're paying his salary.

Thank you, Sienne and Gabby. Buddy seems very normal to me (not critically ill) other than he's a hungry boy all the time.

I will be much more prepared with your insight. Good idea with the laptop. I feel like with all the help I received here I will be locked and ready to go with these vets
.

I swear I am nice and never act rude to any vets, I am pretty shy as it is so I pretty much nod.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Her reaction was that I knew what I was doing / you want a vet....who values your input. You are the best observer of your cat's normal behavior.

There's so much that can go wrong at any clinic the minute you step in the door. First is the receptionist, maybe not a tech and having a bad day who rolls her eyes at "He's just not himself lately". Then comes the judgment about why you waited so long. "Because the last time he had a sneezing fit you charged me $500 for nothing". It's your cat and you know him best. I know when Lewis howls a certain way he's off to the basement to puke. Marco isn't crying because someone stepped on his tail, he wants outside. I know what color Sam's poop is (special diet) and the noise made just before Danielle and Lewis get into their "I'm the alpha male" thing.
We all know things no veterinary college can teach. Who can never be pilled, who can smell 'odorless' meds in their food, who can't be seen straining to pee because they're so private I need a motion activated camera to see it and even then they somehow know. When I know I'm going to have trouble getting the words out I often print out a one page list to save us all time and aggravation.

I swear I am nice and never act rude to any vets,

Being too nice won't get you anywhere, being rude is a semantics argument. The clock is ticking and so is your bill, you don't have to prove you love your cat or else you wouldn't be there. Present the facts including what led you to your conclusions no matter how silly they sound. Everything matters, I've had cats reach into the aquarium, once had a cat swallow a staple and know of a dog that swallowed a watch battery. And yes since you're paying their salary respect works both ways.

 

[GordonParker965]

I agree with many of the comments, and this doctor is not as competent as it might seem. However, it is not only in the treatment of diabetes that mistakes are made but also in the care of dementia patients. Often seniors with dementia have difficulty performing household tasks. The nursing staff assists the patient or takes over the care entirely based on the patient's condition. Once, I had to find a service to help me with such an issue. That's how I came across https://www.thekey.com/learning-cen...ving/how-to-have-more-good-days-with-dementia. Communication with the staff plays a special role in emotional well-being, so choose your specialists carefully.