Feeding the curve (early nadir, indigestion)

[SaraMV]

I have a question about feeding the curve for a cat that nadirs around +3. It means that I should feed at preshot, +1, +2, and +3, correct?

Taz tends to vomit up stomach acid within the hour before his preshot meals. Giving food later in the cycle would help I'm sure, but it would also drive his numbers up. Does anyone have any advice for cutting down on stomach acid? My vet didn't seem concerned about it (he still thinks Taz only eats twice a day).

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hendrick tends to nadir around +3 or +4 as well, and we split the shot-time meal feeding half at shot time and half at +1. It helps the slide down. He also gets snacks at +2 and often at +3. (teaspoon or so LC)

 

[SaraMV]

It's hard because I don't test enough at night to know when he nadirs. From the numbers I have, it looks like it happens later than in his AM cycle.

 

[Chris and Checkers]

Checkers is a grazer, so he eats at shot time and +2. +3 and or +4 . Then I just leave the rest out for him. I give him a small bit between +9 and +10 because he used to drop quite a bit at his preshot. Not sure if that is the best but it is the only way to get enough calories into him. He won't eat a large meal at once.

 

[SaraMV]

Checkers is a grazer, so he eats at shot time and +2. +3 and or +4 . Then I just leave the rest out for him. I give him a small bit between +9 and +10 because he used to drop quite a bit at his preshot. Not sure if that is the best but it is the only way to get enough calories into him. He won't eat a large meal at once.

He sounds like Taz's sister. She grazes and eats very little at a time.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

If Taz is vomiting up acid an hour before his preshot meal I would definitely give him a small snack around+9. Just a small snack of low carb won’t hurt and should stop the vomiting. My Sheba had that and I gave her a small snack at +9 and it stopped the vomiting.

 

[SaraMV]

If Taz is vomiting up acid an hour before his preshot meal I would definitely give him a small snack around+9. Just a small snack of low carb won’t hurt and should stop the vomiting. My Sheba had that and I gave her a small snack at +9 and it stopped the vomiting.

That just might work. We feed friskies pate which is 4-7%, but we have some fancy feast which is lower carbs that we can do at his +9. I always feel bad for him because you can tell it's hunger related acid. It only happens after he's went 7 hours without eating and it's almost time to eat again. Did Sheba nadir early?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Did Sheba nadir early?

No.
But that should not make a difference to you giving that little snack to stop the vomit. It works amd is much better for the cat to have a little something in the tummy to stop the build up of acid.

There is no need to feed the curve in the first three hours, unless you are trying to stop a big drop. I can’t see on the SS where he is having big drops so I would be inclined to give him a snack at say +3 and +5 and the little snack at +9 and see if the nadir comes a bit later.

 

[SaraMV]

There is no need to feed the curve in the first three hours, unless you are trying to stop a big drop. I can’t see on the SS where he is having big drops so I would be inclined to give him a snack at say +3 and +5 and the little snack at +9 and see if the nadir comes a bit later.

I thought the first 3 hours would be the most important and that we weren't supposed to feed after nadir? I have so much to learn!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I thought the first 3 hours would be the most important and that we weren't supposed to feed after nadir? I have so much to learn!

There are so many variables and it is a matter of working out what is important for Taz.
If you have a cat that drops fast in the first few hours…..one of the ways of managing that is to feed the curve so that you can bring him down more slowly and try and stop bounces. I can’t see where Taz is a big diver. He could be bouncing up a bit from the blue BGs which his body thinks are low numbers because his body thinks the higher numbers are the normal numbers now. His body needs to relearn what is normal and the way to do that is to get him down into the lower BGs and experience them as much as possible.
He could also be not getting a long duration of the insulin in the cycle……..that’s why I suggested not feeding at +1 and +2 if he is not dropping.
We do suggest not feeding after nadir as that can shorten the duration of the cycle…but so can feeding too much too early if there are no big drops to slow down.
It’s worth a try to see if it works.
Does that make sense?

 

[SaraMV]

There are so many variables and it is a matter of working out what is important for Taz.
If you have a cat that drops fast in the first few hours…..one of the ways of managing that is to feed the curve so that you can bring him down more slowly and try and stop bounces. I can’t see where Taz is a big diver. He could be bouncing up a bit from the blue BGs which his body thinks are low numbers because his body thinks the higher numbers are the normal numbers now. His body needs to relearn what is normal and the way to do that is to get him down into the lower BGs and experience them as much as possible.
He could also be not getting a long duration of the insulin in the cycle……..that’s why I suggested not feeding at +1 and +2 if he is not dropping.
We do suggest not feeding after nadir as that can shorten the duration of the cycle…but so can feeding too much too early if there are no big drops to slow down.
It’s worth a try to see if it works.
Does that make sense?

I think so. I've been giving snacks at +3 and +4.5 since January, so I'll move the +4.5 to a +5 and add a +9.

 

[SaraMV]

Does that make sense?

Since he nadirs around his +3 in his AM cycle (no idea about his PM cycles), feeding at +4.5/5 isn't something to worry about?

Also, I did a curve today. Does it look like he needs an increase? He has a dental on Monday (most likely with extractions), and I don't plan on giving him insulin that morning, so if I increase him, it will have to be on Tuesday.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

So up until now you have been giving snacks at +1 +2 +3 and +4.5….is that correct.?

Regarding an increase….if he is going in for a dental on Monday, I would wait until he has recovered from that, especially if he is having extractions, before looking at an increase in dose.

Edit…..did the vet say not to give any insulin on the morning he is having the dental?
Usually a 1/2 dose is OK even when they are fasting…..and he has a history of ketones.

 

[SaraMV]

So up until now you have been giving snacks at +1 +2 +3 and +4.5….is that correct.?

Regarding an increase….if he is going in for a dental on Monday, I would wait until he has recovered from that, especially if he is having extractions, before looking at an increase in dose.

Edit…..did the vet say not to give any insulin on the morning he is having the dental?
Usually a 1/2 dose is OK even when they are fasting…..and he has a history of ketones.

I've been giving him 1/2 of a can of friskies pate at Preshot, 1/8 of a can at +3, and 1/8 of a can at +4.5.

I was reading about feeding the curve today and I thought that because he nadirs early, that the +4.5 was working against him and that maybe I should change his times to earlier in the cycle.

The vet said to give him a half dose of insulin but I don't feel safe giving any without food in his system. Especially if he has a poor appetite after the dental.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I've been giving him 1/2 of a can of friskies pate at Preshot, 1/8 of a can at +3, and 1/8 of a can at +4.5.

That’s quite a good plan so you could stay with that if you like. I thought you were feeding at 1 2 and 3 but I misunderstood.

The vet said to give him a half dose of insulin but I don't feel safe giving any without food in his system. Especially if he has a poor appetite after the dental.

I would follow your vets advice and give the 1/2 dose. That is the normal dose given before surgeries to diabetic cats.
Insulin is needed for more things in the body than just the diabetes part. And having had ketones before is another reason to give it.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Gabby had an early onset and nadir -- usually around +3 or +4 (except when it wasn't). I would front load the cycle with food, especially since I work(ed) full time. While feeding your cat after nadir may cause a bump in the numbers, I think you need to offset that influence with your cat having an upset stomach. If you're feeding Taz a small snack at +9, the numbers should not be overly affected by shot time.