Help with weight gain

[lbeachmike]

Hi -

We've been reading your awesome resources here - the very helpful info is most appreciated!

We are still left with a few questions about our cat Buddy.

Buddy was diagnosed with diabetes and possible pancreatitis about five weeks ago. He lost a lot of weight and muscle. He regained about one third of the lost weight but is not regaining any further weight.

He has been on 1.5 units twice/day of Vetsulin for about four weeks.
We also have been giving 50-100ml of SubQ fluids daily
His +6 hr blood glucose has come down from 476 to 292.

We feed him Hound and Gatos Chicken or Duck.

How can we get Buddy on track to regain his lost weight?

Our vet guided us to focus on feeding a larger volume of food to initially facilitate weight gain. This even included a snack, which she otherwise would not normally recommend. This was due to his weight dropping to critical levels.

I'm unclear if continuing to feed larger portions is counter-productive, or requires a higher insulin dose in order to be productive.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Mike

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Mike and Buddy and welcome to the forum.
First of all vetsulin is not a great insulin for cats….for dogs it is fine …but not for cats.
You would be much better looking at changing over to Lantus or Prozinc…both excellent for cats
Speak to your vet about swapping over.

How can we get Buddy on track to regain his lost weight?

Cats who are not regulated…ie still have high BG numbers…..cannot utilise all the nutrients in the food so will not regain the weight until their BG numbers are more normal…….that’s where a better insulin for Buddy comes in…once he is in better numbers the weight will be regained.

With the vetsulin…are you feeding 1/2 hour before giving the dose?
Also are you giving snacks during the cycles as well as the preshot meal? Suggestion….give a snack at +2 and +4 every cycle (ie 2 and 4 hours after the dose of insulin. A snack is a tablespoon of low carb food approximately.

Are you hometesting the blood glucose levels (BG). If not I would highly recommend you think about doing it. It is the best way to get Buddy into better numbers, and keep him safe.
Link to HOMETESTING

Also here is a link that will give you information about the spreadsheet to alter the abG data, the signature and the hypo kit which is essential
HELP US HELP YOU

 

[lbeachmike]

Hi there - Thanks so much for the very thorough response. This really helped to corroborate what my own research appears to be pointing to.

I have a couple of questions -

Re: vetsulin - our vet is about to leave for a two-week vacation, so I don't expect she it doesn't seem she wants to make a switch at this point. Is your position that we will only be able to get so far with the vetsulin and that switching insulins is necessary to get his BG under control?

Re: feeding 1/2 before shot - we feed at 10 and 10, so that's when he starts eating. He takes about 15 minutes to eat, and we give the shot around 10:30. Are you suggesting to give the shot around 10:45 instead?

Re: snacks - we were previously giving a snack at +6 hours on the vets advice (until he gains weight) - that's all we were doing, but after some research and another vet opinion, it seemed like the wrong thing, so we removed the +6 snack. I am confused about why a snack with no insulin would be beneficial. Could you help me to better understand, or point me toward the proper resource?

Re: home testing - we have began doing limited home testing. As mentioned in my initial post, BG @ +5 was 309, +6 was 292. We will do some further tests today. I will look over the resources you provided, especially the hypo kit.

Re: weight gain - how much further does BG need to come down before we start to see better health and weight gain?

Re: expected timeframes - how long generally does it take for a change in insulin or insulin dose to translate into a measurable result? In other words, if he's been on Vetsulin 1.5 units for four weeks, is this as good as it will get without any changes?

Thanks.

Mike

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Re: snacks - we were previously giving a snack at +6 hours on the vets advice (until he gains weight) - that's all we were doing, but after some research and another vet opinion, it seemed like the wrong thing, so we removed the +6 snack. I am confused about why a snack with no insulin would be beneficial. Could you help me to better understand, or point me toward the proper resource?
Mike

Hi Mike and welcome to the club. My name's Kyle and I am new here like you, so I am not going to try and answer most of your questions but this one I've seen a bunch of times from new folk -- in fact I asked it myself!

The way it was explained to me was this:

There are a few reasons why snacks are good -- one is that it is easier on the feline pancreas to have multiple smaller meals. Another is that it is just more natural, a feline in it's natural environment eats many small meals throughout the day. I have also been told that the insulin actually works better with some food on board, it helps smooth out the impact of the insulin and make it an easier and gentler impact for the kittah.

It is true that snacks during the first 4-6 hours after the shot are more widely recommended than after the 6 hour mark, most don't feed much after that as the insulin is waning at that point but there are plenty of people who give at least a snack (tablespoon of food no more) at +7, 8 or even 9.

All kitties are different and it takes a while to learn how food and carbs and the insulin all work on yours. In my cat Hendrick's case the insulin hits him pretty hard at 3 hours after shot so we actually feed half the meal at shot time and the other half at 1 hour after. And then a snack at 2 hours after, medium carb, so he doesn't plummet when the insulin hits. (we are using Lantus)

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

oh yeah re: weight gain. I know this one

Normal BG range for a feline is 50-90 on a human meter (are you using an Alpha Trak?). The closer you can get Buddy to that range or the more time you can keep him IN that range, the better his weight gain will be. Because he needs to be in or around the normal range for his body to be able to make use of all the nutrients

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Vetsulin...is this as good as it will get?

Our first sugar cat did okay with Vetsulin but our second was a mess, erratic curves and nowhere near stabilized. If I knew then what I know now they would both have been on Prozinc. Too bad it wasn't even offered in Canada back then. Vetsulin is harsh on cats and as mentioned is meant for dogs.

Re: weight gain

Make sure you've ruled out thyroid issues. Our boys are all indoor cats but two years ago Andy somehow snuck out and was gone for 88 days. He was put on a kitten food meant only in his case for rapid weight gain. I mention "only in his case" because that food is not meant for anything but kittens and can make a cat obese in a big hurry.

 

[lbeachmike]

oh yeah re: weight gain. I know this one

Normal BG range for a feline is 50-90 on a human meter (are you using an Alpha Trak?). The closer you can get Buddy to that range or the more time you can keep him IN that range, the better his weight gain will be. Because he needs to be in or around the normal range for his body to be able to make use of all the nutrients

We are using Alpha Track 2 for cats and dogs. Our range is currently 292 to 446 after four weeks of Vetsulin @ 1.5 units/dose.

Our starting range was low 400s to high 400s.

Is our best course of short-term action to increase the dosage, add snacks as Kyle mentioned, or change to a different insulin? Or something else?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Mike it's best if you can fill this out so members don't have to keep asking you the same questions over and over again, they also need to see a spreadsheet so they can see how the insulin is working , on the spreadsheet we record what our cats BG is and how low they ate dropping
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

The link will also tell you how to set up our spreadsheet, if you have trouble setting it up let us know

Why is Buddy getting sub fluids?