Kaia is over 600 at +3

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JBat75

JBat75

Member Since 2022
Why is Kaia over 600 at +3?? I've done nothing different. I'm really worried now!!
 
This is likely a bounce. Kaia dropped from 558 to at 294 at +4 last night and may have dropped even lower. That's a big drop in a relatively short period of time. If you look at the pattern of Kaia's response to when you see her in better numbers, she bounces back into higher numbers shortly thereafter. She's "bouncing."

When numbers drop low, drop fast, or drop into a range your cat isn't used to, the liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause the numbers to spike upward. It's truly annoying for the caregiver but it's not dangerous. In fact, it's a form of protection since your cat's body is interpreting the drop as potentially a problem.

I suspect you're holding on to this dose overly long. I'm tagging a couple of Prozinc users to take a look:
@FrostD
@JanetNJ
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
This is likely a bounce. Kaia dropped from 558 to at 294 at +4 last night and may have dropped even lower. That's a big drop in a relatively short period of time. If you look at the pattern of Kaia's response to when you see her in better numbers, she bounces back into higher numbers shortly thereafter. She's "bouncing."

When numbers drop low, drop fast, or drop into a range your cat isn't used to, the liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause the numbers to spike upward. It's truly annoying for the caregiver but it's not dangerous. In fact, it's a form of protection since your cat's body is interpreting the drop as potentially a problem.

I suspect you're holding on to this dose overly long. I'm tagging a couple of Prozinc users to take a look:
@FrostD
@JanetNJ
@Suzanne & Darcy
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I'm really believing I forgot her morning dose! I just cannot remember. I am ill and have 2 jobs and I'm a space case lately!!
Do I give her a insulin? I just don't remember
 
No I would not give her any

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) we were holding dose since she is going on vacation and sitter cannot test during the day. I believe switching to Lantus/semglee after that but we'll see. I believe in last thread I gave guidance for doing an increase, and for what the sitter should give at certain preshots...
 
FrostD said:
No I would not give her any

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) we were holding dose since she is going on vacation and sitter cannot test during the day. I believe switching to Lantus/semglee after that but we'll see. I believe in last thread I gave guidance for doing an increase, and for what the sitter should give at certain preshots...
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You did. I am printing it out and giving it to my sister
 
Nope! You never give a second shot even if you saw the needle go right through the skin and the insulin squirted across the room. It's always possible that you did shoot and what you're seeing is a bounce. In addition, if you did shoot and gave a second shot, you'd have 2 nadirs and then when is shot time?

@FrostD - thanks for the info.
 
I don't know. Being that she's had dka in the past, I just may do the 1 unit. Totally your call. Most would probably say to wait. Can you test for ketones? You could always shift shot times tonight if you need to.
 
I'll try to check for Ketones. Shes pretty sneaky so it's hard to see her go into the litterbox room. I'm just kicking myself, I'm such a bad mom!
 
JBat75 said:
I'll try to check for Ketones. Shes pretty sneaky so it's hard to see her go into the litterbox room. I'm just kicking myself, I'm such a bad mom!
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They make ketone blood meters that work the same as a blood meter. That's what I always used because it was hard to catch her in the box.
 
Over 600 again. Should I give her less food?? I feed her at shot time and let her just eat through +3

Also, seems like the loose skin on her scruff has moved to under her front area. Why?
 
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No no always give food. We adjust insulin around everything else. When do you leave again? Shes likely trying to equilibrate still after yesterday, may take a few cycles.

The skin thing is odd, is she dehydrated? Do you know how to check? Tacky gums, scruff not pulling up is another one.
 
FrostD said:
No no always give food. We adjust insulin around everything else. When do you leave again? Shes likely trying to equilibrate still after yesterday, may take a few cycles.

The skin thing is odd, is she dehydrated? Do you know how to check? Tacky gums, scruff not pulling up is another one.
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Scruff isn't pulling up like it usually does. I may call the vet for some fluids. I leave the 16th (next week) I really have severe anxiety about it!
 
Ok, give her another two days at this dose at least. She probably saw blue today.

Can you start feeding something like 10% carbs at +1 and +2? Those dives are just really prohibiting much progress. Have you asked vet about Lantus or semglee?
 
Can you also do me a favor and put a line in your spreadsheet to mark vacation? So go down however many rows, and merge a few. Put text in that says Vacation and highlight it some color. That lets us know at quick glance how long we have, but also helps explain dose changes to anyone else reading SS
 
FrostD said:
Ok, give her another two days at this dose at least. She probably saw blue today.

Can you start feeding something like 10% carbs at +1 and +2? Those dives are just really prohibiting much progress. Have you asked vet about Lantus or semglee?
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Her followup appointment is Friday, I plan on asking then. I can add more carbs. I'll give it a go. I'm just so worried
 
FrostD said:
Can you also do me a favor and put a line in your spreadsheet to mark vacation? So go down however many rows, and merge a few. Put text in that says Vacation and highlight it some color. That lets us know at quick glance how long we have, but also helps explain dose changes to anyone else reading SS
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Did that work?
 
I really don't know what I'm doing!! As far as feeding her at +1, +2 and 3 is it snack size? A meal size?
 
I'm in absolute tears this morning. Kaia is over 600 again and when I gave her shot she moved... FUR SHOT! I GIVE UP!!!!!

Do I give her a unit really quick??
 
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JBat75 said:
I'm in absolute tears this morning. Kaia is over 600 again and when I gave her shot she moved... FUR SHOT! I GIVE UP!!!!!

Do I give her a unit really quick??
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take a deep breath. A fur shot is not the end of the world, she'll be fine. We've all done it, and just like you -- one time in particular the AMPS was very high like your Kaia -- so when I messed up the shot I felt so terrible, because that high number made me feel like he really really badly needed insulin and here I was screwing it up! But he was fine.

feeding at +1, as @FrostD explained it to me is a split meal. The meal she would normally eat at shot time, take half and feed it at +1 instead. +2 I usually give a snack which to me is a tablespoon or two of food no more. Same with +3

but it depends on the cat. For some cats, a +2/3 snack is a little more or a little less.
 
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Hendrick's mom and dad said:
take a deep breath. A fur shot is not the end of the world, she'll be fine. We've all done it, and just like you -- one time in particular the AMPS was very high like your Kaia -- so when I messed up the shot I felt so terrible, because that high number made me feel like she really really badly needed her insulin and here I was screwing it up! But he was fine.

feeding at +1, as @FrostD explained it to me is a split meal. The meal she would normally eat at shot time, take half and feed it at +1 instead. +2 I usually give a snack which to me is a tablespoon or two of food no more. Same with +3

but it depends on the cat. For some cats, a +2/3 snack is a little more or a little less.
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Thank you for relying! I'm so afraid of DKA again! It was traumatizing. I did give her 1/2 a unit out of fear because she didn't get her insulin on Sunday. Ill check her BG every 2 hours because of that. Do you think that was ok to do??
 
Again, do not give insulin after a fur shot because you don't know how much went in. The other day it was minimal, but today could have been some you never know. Yes please check her every 2 hours.

Start with the evenly split meal for a few cycles and then we'll see (so the calories you'd normally feed, split into three meals + PS is the usual low carb, +1 is 10% carbs, +2 is 10%). She may end up needing more at +1, we'll see.

I know it's scary, but just check those urine ketones and it'll be all right.
 
FrostD said:
Again, do not give insulin after a fur shot because you don't know how much went in. The other day it was minimal, but today could have been some you never know. Yes please check her every 2 hours.

Start with the evenly split meal for a few cycles and then we'll see (so the calories you'd normally feed, split into three meals + PS is the usual low carb, +1 is 10% carbs, +2 is 10%). She may end up needing more at +1, we'll see.

I know it's scary, but just check those urine ketones and it'll be all right.
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I called the vet and they told me to give her the full dose as it went all the way thru her skin... ummm. Thank God I didn't. I'm so happy I found this group! I'm still in tears .. I don't know how I'm going to work this morning
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
take a deep breath. A fur shot is not the end of the world, she'll be fine. We've all done it, and just like you -- one time in particular the AMPS was very high like your Kaia -- so when I messed up the shot I felt so terrible, because that high number made me feel like she really really badly needed her insulin and here I was screwing it up! But he was fine.

feeding at +1, as @FrostD explained it to me is a split meal. The meal she would normally eat at shot time, take half and feed it at +1 instead. +2 I usually give a snack which to me is a tablespoon or two of food no more. Same with +3

but it depends on the cat. For some cats, a +2/3 snack is a little more or a little less.
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Ok, I think I'm giving her too much food then...
 
FrostD said:
She is post DKA, let her eat. I would not restrict total calories unless she's overweight, or scarfing and barfing or just eating far too many calories
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So don't cut meals I'm half? Give her 3 regular meals?
 
JBat75 said:
So don't cut meals I'm half? Give her 3 regular meals?
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Same total calories. Just split it up into smaller meals with varying carbs.

How many calories is current morning meal? And what medium carb foods do you have on hand?
 
FrostD said:
Same total calories. Just split it up into smaller meals with varying carbs.

How many calories is current morning meal? And what medium carb foods do you have on hand?
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I'm not sure of exact carbs. I give her 1/2 can of fancy feast and 1/4 cup Dr. Elseys chicken flavor crunches.
I give her WD crunches for higher carbs. Even though I can't find anywhere how many carbs the WD has
 
Ok so the fancy feast are all 0-3% carbs, and all about 100 cals/can. The WD is 25%. Dr Elsey's is about 550 cal/cup.

So right now her main two meals are 188 cals each. Side note, what's her ideal weight?

We want to take those 188 cals and split them into 6 even-ish meals, so about 32 cals/meal.

Will she eat fancy feast grilled in gravy you think? The chicken or beef flavors are 12% carbs, 71 cals/can (yes I triple checked this, less calories than pate).

So, I would do this:
PS: 1 tbsp Dr Elsey's (34 cals). If you think she'll really want the wet, do 2 tsp Dr Elsey's (22 cals) and 2 tsp pate.
+1: Try 1/3 can (24 cals) of the grilled (or some similar MC food) + a tsp of Dr Elsey's (11 cal)
+2: same as above

Be sure to note any feeding changes on the SS as well. Now, this will change if you change insulins. Lantus/semglee are generally much more gentle and you likely wouldn't have to feed such heavy hitters early in the cycle.
 
FrostD said:
Ok so the fancy feast are all 0-3% carbs, and all about 100 cals/can. The WD is 25%. Dr Elsey's is about 550 cal/cup.

So right now her main two meals are 188 cals each. Side note, what's her ideal weight?

We want to take those 188 cals and split them into 6 even-ish meals, so about 32 cals/meal.

Will she eat fancy feast grilled in gravy you think? The chicken or beef flavors are 12% carbs, 71 cals/can (yes I triple checked this, less calories than pate).

So, I would do this:
PS: 1 tbsp Dr Elsey's (34 cals). If you think she'll really want the wet, do 2 tsp Dr Elsey's (22 cals) and 2 tsp pate.
+1: Try 1/3 can (24 cals) of the grilled (or some similar MC food) + a tsp of Dr Elsey's (11 cal)
+2: same as above

Be sure to note any feeding changes on the SS as well. Now, this will change if you change insulins. Lantus/semglee are generally much more gentle and you likely wouldn't have to feed such heavy hitters early in the cycle.
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This won't be easy while I'm away. She seems to eat a lot more than that. She is a good 9 pounds....
She may only lick the gravy of the grilled
 
You can always feed more if she needs it. Just aiming for the MC stuff at +1 and +2 only to help slow those dives.

Did you ever decide on an autofeeder? I know it was talked about before. They make life much easier
 
FrostD said:
You can always feed more if she needs it. Just aiming for the MC stuff at +1 and +2 only to help slow those dives.

Did you ever decide on an autofeeder? I know it was talked about before. They make life much easier
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Yes, I bought one. It does dry food I believe.

Kaia was laying on my bed and when she got up and moved there was a large spot of urine. Then when she moved again, more urine. Any ideas? Another UTI?

I did get a ketone test out of it. Ketones look good
 
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Omg way to look at the bright side and get ketone test LOL

That's odd. Especially since they don't usually lay in it. Yes I would guess infection, or was she spayed? I'm not sure if it's the same in dogs and cats, but my dog was spayed far too early at the shelter and now we have incontinence issues.

Will your vet let you take a sample in or do they prefer the sterile needle?
 
FrostD said:
Omg way to look at the bright side and get ketone test LOL

That's odd. Especially since they don't usually lay in it. Yes I would guess infection, or was she spayed? I'm not sure if it's the same in dogs and cats, but my dog was spayed far too early at the shelter and now we have incontinence issues.

Will your vet let you take a sample in or do they prefer the sterile needle?
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Lol, gotta look at the bright side of things!

She is spayed. I always believed she was spayed way too young. Maybe that's it?
I'm not sure what they prefer at the vet. I text my vet with updates so I can ask her. They wanted to do a fructosamine test on Friday. I don't see the point now with home testing. What should I have her checked for before vacation?? Dehydration for sure...
 
JBat75 said:
Lol, gotta look at the bright side of things!

She is spayed. I always believed she was spayed way too young. Maybe that's it?
I'm not sure what they prefer at the vet. I text my vet with updates so I can ask her. They wanted to do a fructosamine test on Friday. I don't see the point now with home testing. What should I have her checked for before vacation?? Dehydration for sure...
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No fructosamine needed.

I would take a urine sample in, tomorrow if you can so you have time to get things organized before you leave. And hopefully they'd give you some fluids if needed. Right now I don't see a need for anything else...
 
FrostD said:
No fructosamine needed.

I would take a urine sample in, tomorrow if you can so you have time to get things organized before you leave. And hopefully they'd give you some fluids if needed. Right now I don't see a need for anything else...
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Thank you so very much!!:bighug:
 
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