New member with a few questions

[Jacobthecat]

Hi! I found out Tuesday that my cat Jacob(male 11yo 11.8 pounds) has diabetes. The vet told me he was around 400 when she tested and prescribed me novolin n. I just got the insulin(is $158 normal price and the bottle says to get rid of after 43 days but the vet said I can use it for longer) and have been giving it to him starting today and it's been rough/confused on some things.

The vet told me he needs to eat right after the shot(online said eat before) and I always let him free eat so I am trying to set it out around the time of his shot(he only eats dry good I never found wet food he liked) he had me worried about not eating after that I gave him some treats so it would be ok till he decided to eat(I even made him egg whites which he usually wants mine but showed no interest).

Giving him his 2nd shot today and there was insulin on his fur so im not sure how much got in(he pulled away as I was injecting it) is this a big deal? I'm hoping it doesn't happen often but he also has so much fur and the tech said to pull back to make sure there's no blood first.

I know the shots have to be every 12 hours and we have to make sure he eats but my fiance and I are going to be going to work together(or maybe not if I need to be home earlier to give jacob his shot)we would have to leave at 6 and wouldn't be home till 6:20 or we take two cars to work so I can be home for 6 to give him his shot.


A TLDR for the main questions would be
-is novlin n good and $150 for the price normal
-eat before or after the shot and how to make sure they actually eat
-any ways to make giving the shot easier?I'm going to be looking more at this site and youtube for research.
-how to make sure he is getting his shot every 12 hours when we are both gone 12 hours.
-what device should be used to do at home tests(I didn't know this was a thing I just figured it out after reading some peoples post and the vet hasn't said about this yet)

Thank you so much for any advice and im sorry if this is all over the place. A lot of information I have been reading will say different things and im just very confused and stressed. We just moved in with some family 3 months ago and I was gone the other week for about a week to visit my family and my mother found some articles that maybe he is stressed that's why his levels are up but I feel like that's wishful thinking.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to you and Jacob.
I’ll answer your questions first.

novlin n good and $150 for the price normal

No, Novolin is not a good insulin for cats. It hits hard and fast. You would be much better with one of the longer lasting insulins such as Prozinc or Lantus. I have no idea of the price of Novolin sorry. But with Lantus you can buy a bio similar insulin which is the same as Lantus for a very reasonable price.
What dose of Novolin are you giving?

eat before or after the shot and how to make sure they actually eat

With Novolin N you have to feed your kitty 1 hour before giving the dose as you need to make sure he has food aboard before the insulin hits. Your vet is incorrect about when to feed.
Is he not wanting to eat?

any ways to make giving the shot easier?I'm going to be looking more at this site and youtube for research.

Try having him in the table at your height and let him eat something while you do it. Have him close to your waist and bend over and give the injection in the far side of the cat. I will post suitable places to give the insulin at the end.

how to make sure he is getting his shot every 12 hours when we are both gone 12 hours.

You will just have to get up earlier to feed him an hour before and do the best you can. The other insulins I mentioned don’t need you to feed earlier than when you give the insulin so would be much easier for you.
Have you thought about an automatic timed feeder for him so that you can leave out food for him to eat while you are gone. He will need to have access to food.

what device should be used to do at home tests(I didn't know this was a thing I just figured it out after reading some peoples post and the vet hasn't said about this yet)[/
Most vets are not in favour of home test or some reason but it is the only way you can keep Jacob safe
I would recommend a Human meter called the ReliOn premier from Walmart. It is $9 and 100 test strips are $17.88
You will also need a box of lancets size 26 or 28 to prick the ear and some cotton rounds to hold behind the ear.

bottle says to get rid of after 43 days but the vet said I can use it for longer) and

As long as you leave the insulin in the fridge it will last longer.

I always let him free eat so I am trying to set it out around the time of his shot(he only eats dry good I never found wet food he liked) he had me worried about not eating after that I gave him some treats so it would be ok till he decided to eat(I even made him egg whites which he usually wants mine but showed no interest).

Let him free feed except for the 2 hours before the preshot BG as we don’t want that BG to be food influenced
He really needs to be eating a low carb diet not a high carb dry food diet. There are some low carb dry foods around. I will ask @Diane Tyler's Mom to tell you about the, as I don’t live in the US. But you will need to be really careful swapping over to a low carb diet and I would not do it until you are hometesting and have a few days off to monitor him closely as swapping to a low carb diet can drop the BG by 100 points or more.

Giving him his 2nd shot today and there was insulin on his fur so im not sure how much got in(he pulled away as I was injecting it) is this a big deal? I'm hoping it doesn't happen often but he also has so much fur and the tech said to pull back to make sure there's no blood first.

Sounds like you gave a fur shot which most of us have given so don’t worry. Never give another dose if you give a fir ****. It is too dangerous as some insulin has probably got in. There is no need to draw back when giving the dose to see if there is blood there. It is just under the skin. And the likelihood of hitting a vein is minimal.

Thee is lots more to tell you but I don’t want to overwhelm you. Keep posting and ask questions.
Make sure you have a hypo box set up now as you never know when you might need it. You will find instructions here HELP US HELP YOU

PLEASE EXPAND THE LAST ORANGE STRIP. FOR SOME REASON IT HAS INCLUDED THE LAST 4 OF MY ANSWERS. JUST CLICK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ORANGE.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Thank you so much for the information!

The vet said she had cats do best on the novolin so i trusted her suggestion....is it safe for me to finish using this insulin and then switch to another? He is getting 3 units every 12 hours. We just moved so I've only been to this vet 1 other time before cause he had a nail I couldn't cut so now I'm feeling a little confused if I am safe to go with what she recommends now? The novlin n also says do no refrigerate after opening but I was seeing other people say about keeping theirs inside a fridge. I keep seeing a lot of information that tells me to do the opposite of what the vet said.

Would it be safe to change his insulin once I've used this and do I need to get it prescribed by the vet? Should I stop giving it to him until I get an at home tester? And once I can test if his levels are good I don't need to give him the insulin?(the vet said he'd need a shot 2 times a day for the rest of his life)

We have been keeping an eye on him and have been trying to get him to eat after like the vet said but he kinda nibbles at his food throughout the day and always has so I've been trying everything I could think of to give him. I wish I did more research before starting his shots but I was stressed and panicked

I was looking into a timed feeder but we got hit with a bad storm so im hoping to go out today and find one or ill order one fast online. I tried some toppers I bought for his food and he rejected them all(he loves chicken and still didn't like these appetizers things I got him)

Is there a post that recommends a certain tester or brand? The vet didnt say about needing one but as ive been doing research I've been wanting to get one ASAP. I have an appointment Tuesday cause they want to check his levels again after 6 to 10 days which I need to change since it's not enough.


Hes had 3(maybe 2 if i messed up last night) of insulin so far and has been pretty normal. We will go out today to hopefully find the stuff we need to make that box for him(I found out about that last night and I feel horrible starting him on this so fast but I trusted the vet)

Unfortunately with us living with family he is mainly in our bedroom because he is timid around the other 2 people in the house. I am partly rushing to buy a house because i want him to have more space but we can only go so fast since we need more money lol

I am so sorry theres a lot of information im asking im a very anxious person and i was already stressed with other stuff going on and found out about this I did read the "dear mom it's going to be ok" post and cried cause it hit hard and did cause myself a stress headache the last two days. I appreciate all the information I have been given and have been finding on this site ❤

Hi and welcome to you and Jacob.
I’ll answer your questions first.


No, Novolin is not a good insulin for cats. It hits hard and fast. You would be much better with one of the longer lasting insulins such as Prozinc or Lantus. I have no idea of the price of Novolin sorry. But with Lantus you can buy a bio similar insulin which is the same as Lantus for a very reasonable price.
What dose of Novolin are you giving?



With Novolin N you have to feed your kitty 1 hour before giving the dose as you need to make sure he has food aboard before the insulin hits. Your vet is incorrect about when to feed.
Is he not wanting to eat?


Try having him in the table at your height and let him eat something while you do it. Have him close to your waist and bend over and give the injection in the far side of the cat. I will post suitable places to give the insulin at the end.



You will just have to get up earlier to feed him an hour before and do the best you can. The other insulins I mentioned don’t need you to feed earlier than when you give the insulin so would be much easier for you.
Have you thought about an automatic timed feeder for him so that you can leave out food for him to eat while you are gone. He will need to have access to food.




PLEASE EXPAND THE LAST ORANGE STRIP. FOR SOME REASON IT HAS INCLUDED THE LAST 4 OF MY ANSWERS. JUST CLICK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ORANGE.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

It’s fine to ask as many questions as you like. It’s a steep learning curve in the beginning but you will get there.

3 units every 12 hours is far too much insulin to start off with …especially Novolin N which hits hard and fast. Please don’t give that much. If you are feeding a dry food diet the starting dose is 1 unit each 12 hours.
I would reduce the dose to 1 unit each 12 hours especially as you are not testing yet.
I would not stop the insulin because you could run into other issues if you do. And I suggest asking about swapping over to a more suitable insulin at your next visit if you can afford it.
Here is a BEGINNERS GUIDE TO NOVOLIN INSULIN so you can see what to do.
I think the vet is way behind in the treatment of feline diabetes. The American vet association recommends Lantus and prozinc insulin for cats.

If you live near a Walmart, you can buy a ReliOn premier meter for $9 amd 100 test strips for $17.88. You will also need a boss’s of lancets size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to hold behind the ear when you test.
TESTING HINTS AND TIPS

A good timed feeder is the petsafe 5

It is possible Jacob might need injections for the rest of his life. However some cats can go into remission where they become diet controlled but don’t need the insulin.

Hopefully @Diane Tyler's Mom will be along today to help you with more suitable dry food options.
Keep asking questions

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

there are low carb options in dry food - Young Again Zero Mature , Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (chicken flavor) and Wysong Epigen 90 They are all around 5% carbs. They are expensive but of better quality that other dry food (including prescription food).


Here are some treats also
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B78672I/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

As far as home testing you can buy a human meter, that's what our numbers are based on, most likely you vet is using a pet meter and the strips are very expensive
If you have a Walmart by you pick up
The
Relion Premier Classic same price 9 dollars, 17.88 for 100 test strips.
Also get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
Some cotton rounds


Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
You can also put a thin layer of vaseline on the ear ,to help the blood bead up

Here is a video one of our members did
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[Jacobthecat]

Is it safe to cut down to 1 before talking to the vet? I was wondering if it was so high because he was at 400 something. The syringes I'm using are 3/10mL 1/2 inch gage is 30g.

I know he could need shots for the rest of his life but if I test him and his levels are normal he doesn't need a shot then?

Were going out today to buy the stuff for a hypo kit and hopefully I can find that pet feeder in store if not I'll order online. I also seen someone using that same tester and seen it was at Walmart so that's where I'll be going today.

I'll read up on the novlin and the vet did offer if I wanted to do my own research but I was like well she's the professional I can trust her? My brain also panicked I think and was like "well he needs on this asap or he could die"

It’s fine to ask as many questions as you like. It’s a steep learning curve in the beginning but you will get there.

3 units every 12 hours is far too much insulin to start off with …especially Novolin N which hits hard and fast. Please don’t give that much. If you are feeding a dry food diet the starting dose is 1 unit each 12 hours.
I would reduce the dose to 1 unit each 12 hours especially as you are not testing yet.
I would not stop the insulin because you could run into other issues if you do. And I suggest asking about swapping over to a more suitable insulin at your next visit if you can afford it.
Here is a BEGINNERS GUIDE TO NOVOLIN INSULIN so you can see what to do.
I think the vet is way behind in the treatment of feline diabetes. The American vet association recommends Lantus and prozinc insulin for cats.

If you live near a Walmart, you can buy a ReliOn premier meter for $9 amd 100 test strips for $17.88. You will also need a boss’s of lancets size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to hold behind the ear when you test.
TESTING HINTS AND TIPS

A good timed feeder is the petsafe 5

It is possible Jacob might need injections for the rest of his life. However some cats can go into remission where they become diet controlled but don’t need the insulin.

Hopefully @Diane Tyler's Mom will be along today to help you with more suitable dry food options.
Keep asking questions

 

[Jacobthecat]

Thank you for the suggestions I will look out for that stuff while we are out. I was looking at changing him to the Purina diabetes food but this stuff will be better? Right now I have him on hills science diet for sensitive skin and stomach because my old vet recommended hills brand and he was giving me issues with throwing up. He actually was throwing up a lot again which is why I took him to the vet and they ran blood work and xrays and came back that he's diabetic. He also dropped 1.2 pounds in 2 months if they weighed him correctly last time I had him in.

there are low carb options in dry food - Young Again Zero Mature , Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (chicken flavor) and Wysong Epigen 90 They are all around 5% carbs. They are expensive but of better quality that other dry food (including prescription food).


Here are some treats also
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B78672I/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you for the suggestions I will look out for that stuff while we are out. I was looking at changing him to the Purina diabetes food but this stuff will be better? Right now I have him on hills science diet for sensitive skin and stomach because my old vet recommended hills brand and he was giving me issues with throwing up. He actually was throwing up a lot again which is why I took him to the vet and they ran blood work and xrays and came back that he's diabetic. He also dropped 1.2 pounds in 2 months if they weighed him correctly last time I had him in.

I don't think you can buy any of those low carb dry foods in a store, need to order them on line. I don't know how high the carbs are in the Purina Dry, they probably are too high.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

About the dose than @Bron and Sheba (GA) suggested I would take her advice until you start testing every day. Read the link she gave you about Novolin
Bring lives in Sydney Australia so it's about 3:30 AM there right now, she comes on at night

When you want to reply back to a member just press down on what they said until you get to the end of their post and tap on reply, the work reply should come up and then write what you want to , so they will see that you were replying back to that specific member

Just like I did just know above

After you buy a meter you can then add it to your signature so members know
We also have a spreadsheet we use to track our cats BG, we can have a member set it up for you once you start testing, just ask

 

[Larry and Kitties]

-is novlin n good and $150 for the price normal

It is not the best insulin at al for cats. The $150 for 10 ml vial is terrible. You can get Walmart's brand for about $30. I have use one vial for about a year.

I would get a biosimilar Glargine insulin. The least expensive is Semglee but now maybe
Mylan Insulin Glargine-yfgn,
NDC is 49502-394-75 if 5, 300 ml pens.

Check GoodRX for prices
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine
Costco may be less expensive but check them by NDC number for the Mylan Insulin Glargine-yfgn

 

[Jacobthecat]

About the dose than @Bron and Sheba (GA) suggested I would take her advice until you start testing every day. Read the link she gave you about Novolin
Bring lives in Sydney Australia so it's about 3:30 AM there right now, she comes on at night

When you want to reply back to a member just press down on what they said until you get to the end of their post and tap on reply, the work reply should come up and then write what you want to , so they will see that you were replying back to that specific member

Just like I did just know above

After you buy a meter you can then add it to your signature so members know
We also have a spreadsheet we use to track our cats BG, we can have a member set it up for you once you start testing, just ask

I just got all the stuff I need to test jacobs levels. I'm confused why the vet said for him to eat after the shot when everything says before so I may make a call and ask her about that. I have issues getting him to eat on demand so I don't know if I should skip giving the shot until he starts to eat?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I just got all the stuff I need to test jacobs levels. I'm confused why the vet said for him to eat after the shot when everything says before so I may make a call and ask her about that. I have issues getting him to eat on demand so I don't know if I should skip giving the shot until he starts to eat?

Well done getting the testing equipment. Let us know how you go.
Because Novolin is a fast acting harsh insulin, you definitely need to feed him 1 hour before the dose is given. Your vet is incorrect with the advice she has given you. Jacob needs to have that food aboard before the dose to stop him dropping too low.
Unfortunately vets don’t get much training about diabetes and the training they get is mostly about dogs which is different to cat diabetics. Please do reduce the dose.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Your vet is wrong about when to feed. Please listen to the members here

 

[Jacobthecat]

Well done getting the testing equipment. Let us know how you go.
Because Novolin is a fast acting harsh insulin, you definitely need to feed him 1 hour before the dose is given. Your vet is incorrect with the advice she has given you. Jacob needs to have that food aboard before the dose to stop him dropping too low.
Unfortunately vets don’t get much training about diabetes and the training they get is mostly about dogs which is different to cat dinettes. Please do reduce the dose.

It took 3 tries(doesn't help he is a black cat) but his test came back @332 at 5:35 and I give him his shot at 6. He did just eat a few bites of food I'm not sure how much he should have but I'm assuming since his levels are up its safe to give him his insulin.
I also double checked her paper says around the time he gets his shot but I remember she said after so im just going to make sure he eats before. I also got him the petsafe feeder.

Thank you all so much for the information it has helped a ton.
I also got him the treats that were recommended and he ate one then was like nah I feel like he isn't a very food driven cat unless its his temptation treats or cheese.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

It took 3 tries(doesn't help he is a black cat) but his test came back @332 at 5:35 and I give him his shot at 6. He did just eat a few bites of food I'm not sure how much he should have but I'm assuming since his levels are up its safe to give him his insulin.

Well done getting the test. Because he is a black cat, try rubbing a little bit of Vaseline on the ear before testing so that the blood beads up instead of soaking into the fur.
332 is not all that high. Please test at +4 (4 hours after the dose) to see he hasn’t dropped too low, if you gave the 3 units. And make sure he is getting some food in during that 4 hours.
I’m glad you got the petsafe feeder. That will be very useful in making sure he gets food when you are not there and at night.
Have you looked at setting up a spreadsheet so you can add the data now that you have started hometesting (which is great!)?
If you think you need help in setting it up, just let us know and someone will help you.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Well done getting the test. Because he is a black cat, try rubbing a little bit of Vaseline on the ear before testing so that the blood beads up instead of soaking into the fur.
332 is not all that high. Please test at +4 (4 hours after the dose) to see he hasn’t dropped too low, if you gave the 3 units. And make sure he is getting some food in during that 4 hours.
I’m glad you got the petsafe feeder. That will be very useful in making sure he gets food when you are not there and at night.
Have you looked at setting up a spreadsheet so you can add the data now that you have started hometesting (which is great!)?
If you think you need help in setting it up, just let us know and someone will help you.

I will give the Vaseline tip a try. I'll work on the spreadsheet for him in the morning. Do I always have to test after every 4 hours because we will be at work after his morning shot. We're trying to figure out our work schedule so that we can do his stuff on time. What happens if he has a low BG in the morning and we have to go to work is there anything we can do?

I did give him the 3 units the vet said because I think she started him high since he was so high when he came in and she will probably lower it as he gets lower? What are the good and bad levels for his BG?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Do I always have to test after every 4 hours because we will be at work after his morning shot. We're trying to figure out our work schedule so that we can do his stuff on time. What happens if he has a low BG in the morning and we have to go to work is there anything we can do?

We need to get some data about how he is reacting to the insulin. At the moment we have no idea. So the more testing you can do when you are home, the better we will know what is happening. I personally would not be at all comfortable giving my cat 3 units of Novolin N and then going to work for the day.

With Novolin N this is what the information says in the Beginners guide to using Novolin N
Starting Dose:

• For a cat that is eating dry food or other higher (over 10%) carbohydrate food, the starting dose is 1.0u.
• If the cat is eating a low carbohydrate (preferably) canned or raw food diet, the starting dose is 0.5u.

If and when to shoot: Generally speaking, if you are new to managing your cat’s diabetes, it’s recommended that no N/NPH is given if the BG is below 250 mg/dL [13.8 mmol/L] on a human glucose meter. You may wish to use a slightly higher ‘post and ask for help’ number such as 300 mg/dL [16.6 mmol/L] in certain circumstances. Experienced members will guide you through your options if your cat has a lower than expected pre-shot number. As you gain experience, you will be able to lower your threshold for when to shoot.

As you can see they don’t recommend you give a dose if the preshot BG is below 250 and sometimes 300.
And the recommended starting dose is 1 unit if feeding dry higher carb food.
I can’t stress strongly enough that you need to reduce the dose to 1 unit. I am sure you trust your vet but in this instance she is giving you wrong advice.
The starting dose is not based on one blood test but on what the cat is being fed. A blood glucose test of 400 which is what you said he had at diagnosis is not a reason to start Novolin N insulin at 3 units.
As you can see there is not a lot of difference between 250 and 332 which was the last preshot where you gave the 3 units.
If you can get the vet to change Jacob over to a longer acting more gentle insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc it would be much better and safer for Jacob.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

@FrostD
@JanetNJ
Would appreciate your thoughts on the dose of Novolin N please.

 

[Jacobthecat]

We need to get some data about how he is reacting to the insulin. At the moment we have no idea. So the more testing you can do when you are home, the better we will know what is happening. I personally would not be at all comfortable giving my cat 3 units of Novolin N and then going to work for the day.

With Novolin N this is what the information says in the Beginners guide to using Novolin N
Starting Dose:

• For a cat that is eating dry food or other higher (over 10%) carbohydrate food, the starting dose is 1.0u.
• If the cat is eating a low carbohydrate (preferably) canned or raw food diet, the starting dose is 0.5u.

If and when to shoot: Generally speaking, if you are new to managing your cat’s diabetes, it’s recommended that no N/NPH is given if the BG is below 250 mg/dL [13.8 mmol/L] on a human glucose meter. You may wish to use a slightly higher ‘post and ask for help’ number such as 300 mg/dL [16.6 mmol/L] in certain circumstances. Experienced members will guide you through your options if your cat has a lower than expected pre-shot number. As you gain experience, you will be able to lower your threshold for when to shoot.

As you can see they don’t recommend you give a dose if the preshot BG is below 250 and sometimes 300.
And the recommended starting dose is 1 unit if feeding dry higher carb food.
I can’t stress strongly enough that you need to reduce the dose to 1 unit. I am sure you trust your vet but in this instance she is giving you wrong advice.
The starting dose is not based on one blood test but on what the cat is being fed. A blood glucose test of 400 which is what you said he had at diagnosis is not a reason to start Novolin N insulin at 3 units.
As you can see there is not a lot of difference between 250 and 332 which was the last preshot where you gave the 3 units.
If you can get the vet to change Jacob over to a longer acting more gentle insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc it would be much better and safer for Jacob.

I'll start giving him 1 unit in the morning then. I did forget that I read that in the novolin information. It's been a lot to learn in such a short time. I've just been getting torn between online information and listening to the vet/a friend of my friend who is a vet tech and said to just listen to the vet. I won't be working till the 19th thankfully I am able to be here while figuring this all out. He has been acting normal and I have a timer set for 10pm to check his levels again.

 

[FrostD]

Unfortunately I am not comfortable advising, I've never used it nor followed any cats here that did. I think perhaps @Larry and Kitties uses it for one/some of his cats?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I'll start giving him 1 unit in the morning then. I did forget that I read that in the novolin information. It's been a lot to learn in such a short time. I've just been getting torn between online information and listening to the vet/a friend of my friend who is a vet tech and said to just listen to the vet. I won't be working till the 19th thankfully I am able to be here while figuring this all out. He has been acting normal and I have a timer set for 10pm to check his levels again.

I know it is hard to disregard what the vet has said and take advice from people you don’t know online. But FDMB has been around since 1996 and all the people who help here are people who have owned or own diabetic cats and have lived with it 24/7. We only ever have the cats best interests at heart.
I am glad you are reducing to 1 unit twice a day. If you can get some tests in during the days and evenings while you are off work, that would be early good, and we will be able to see if the dose needs increasing or decreasing. And if Jacob can get used to eating from the automatic feeder, that would be good too. To get my girl used to the automatic feeder, I fed her all her meals in it for a week so she associated the feeder with food. She loved her feeder and when she heard it turning ready to open, she would race from wherever she was in the house to the feeder.

Did you manage to get the +4 test in yet or is it too soon?

 

[Jacobthecat]

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

He just tested at 83 is that bad? I just gave him some treats that someone said are higher carb and they keep if their cat gets low

Edit: I read 80 to 120 is normal and ok?
Edit: I just found out 60 is dangerous and he should be ok I just thought 83 was a low number
Edit: if his numbers are in the "green" zone I'm guessing I shouldn't give him insulin

I'm hoping this gets easier he really doesn't like the pokes and is getting stressed(I did it on the first or 2nd poke but it came up with an error so it took us another 3 tries )

I did read it is also better to have him on a wet food diet eventually?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

He just tested at 83 is that bad? I just gave him some treats that someone said are higher carb and they keep if their cat gets low

Yes that number is too low for a cat getting Novolin N. I am glad you gave some higher carb treats. You will need to test again now if you haven’t already tested. That BG number indicates that the 3 units is too much insulin.
Ill post this so you can recheck the BG then I’ll as the other questions.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Yes that number is too low for a cat getting Novolin N. I am glad you gave some higher carb treats. You will need to test again now if you haven’t already tested. That BG number indicates that the 3 units is too much insulin.
Ill post this so you can recheck the BG then I’ll as the other questions.

I just tested 44 minutes ago(10:10pm ish) it is now 10:57(I'm in ohio on EST)

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

read 80 to 120 is normal and ok?

Yes these are normal numbers but not for a cat on Novolin N who is only 4 hours into the cycle. You won’t get normal numbers straight away. Insulin takes time to work. And it will go up high again once the dose wears off.

I just found out 60 is dangerous and he should be ok I just thought 83 was a low number

The normal numbers for a cat if you are using a human meter ae 50 to 120. But when you are using insulin, especially in the beginning, you don’t want to be dropping so far down as there is no leeway if you are still early in the cycle

I just tested 44 minutes ago(10:10pm ish) it is now 10:57(I'm in ohio on EST)

Have you retested? I am in Australia.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Yes these are normal numbers but not for a cat on Novolin N who is only 4 hours into the cycle. You won’t get normal numbers straight away. Insulin takes time to work. And it will go up high again once the dose wears off.


The normal numbers for a cat if you are using a human meter ae 50 to 120. But when you are using insulin, especially in the beginning, you don’t want to be dropping so far down as there is no leeway if you are still early in the cycle


Have you retested? I am in Australia.

I haven't retested yet should I even though it hasn't been that long?(an hour) I thought I read with novolin it acts fast in the beginning but doesn't last the full 12 hour cycle.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Edit: if his numbers are in the "green" zone I'm guessing I shouldn't give him insulin

At the moment you shouldnt give a dose of insulin if his BG is under 250

[QUOTE="Jacobthecat, post: 2909684, member: 35494"]did read it is also better to have him on a wet food diet eventually?[/QUOTE]

This is correct but don’t change the food at all at the moment while you are on Novolin. Wait until you are on a better insulin. It will be safer for Jacob.

Have you retested the BG to see he has not dropped further?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

haven't retested yet should I even though it hasn't been that long?(an hour) I thought I read with novolin it acts fast in the beginning but doesn't last the full 12 hour cycle.

When you get a low number like 83…….you need to give some high carb food and then retest the BG 1/2 hour later to see it is not still dropping.
Yes the insulin won’t last 12 hours but it will last more than 4 hours.

 

[Jacobthecat]

When you get a low number like 83…….you need to give some high carb food and then retest the BG 1/2 hour later to see it is not still dropping.
Yes the insulin won’t last 12 hours but it will last more than 4 hours.

Just tested him it's 100(11:16 so its pretty much been a hour)I did good but the first 3 strips came back error and I had to poke him again. He's really not liking this process and I'm scared of traumatizing him

 

[Jacobthecat]

At the moment you shouldnt give a dose of insulin if his BG is under 250

Does this count for even giving him 1 unit of insulin? I'm kinda shocked the vet was just going to let me go without testing him daily for a week

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Just tested him it's 100(11:16 so its pretty much been a hour)I did good but the first 3 strips came back error and I had to poke him again. He's really not liking this process and I'm scared of traumatizing him

Well done getting the test done, even though it took a few goes. have you managed to set up the spreadsheet yet to put in the numbers?
Are you giving him a little treat every time you test, even when you don’t get a result?
It will get easier, but you are doing GREAT!
So what can we take away from todays cycle?……….

• We can see that the insulin drops his BG down quite fast and that the 3 units is too much insulin.
  
• Because the BG dropped under 90, we know that the dose is too much and needs to be reduced
• Because the BG dropped under 90 you have learned that you need to give some higher carb food and test again in 1/2 hour to see that the BG is going up not down.
• We can see he is responding to the higher carb retreats when his BG drops low….which is good.

Does this count for even giving him 1 unit of insulin? I'm kinda shocked the vet was just going to let me go without testing him daily for a week

YES, that applies for any dose you are giving at the moment until you get more data that shows how he is reacting to the insulin. Insulin is a hormone…it’s not a medication like an antibiotic where we know exactly how it will work. Insulin works differently in all cats. That is why we are cautious.
We get quite a few cats here where the vet has sent them home, sometimes for a month without any testing. Some cats arrive after having had a life threatening hypo event.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Well done getting the test done, even though it took a few goes. have you managed to set up the spreadsheet yet to put in the numbers?
Are you giving him a little treat every time you test, even when you don’t get a result?
It will get easier, but you are doing GREAT!
So what can we take away from todays cycle?……….

• We can see that the insulin drops his BG down quite fast and that the 3 units is too much insulin.
  
• Because the BG dropped under 90, we know that the dose is too much and needs to be reduced
• Because the BG dropped under 90 you have learned that you need to give some higher carb food and test again in 1/2 hour to see that the BG is going up not down.
• We can see he is responding to the higher carb retreats when his BG drops low….which is good.

YES, that applies for any dose you are giving at the moment until you get more data that shows how he is reacting to the insulin. Insulin is a hormone…it’s not a medication like an antibiotic where we know exactly how it will work. Insulin works differently in all cats. That is why we are cautious.
We get quite a few cats here where the vet has sent them home, sometimes for a month without any testing. Some cats arrive after having had a life threatening hypo event.

Thank you so much for all the info and I have been giving him treats but the only ones he likes are the temptation treats so im trying to limit them. I got him the freeze dried chicken he ate one piece then didn't want to touch it ‍

I'm hoping to have him where we can be safe and not have to check a 2nd time since we won't be able to do that in the morning :/

I was going to create his sheet in the morning. It's been a long day and I'm on day 3 of a stress headache/migraine a lot going on in the personal life and then having this added to the mix I appreciate all of you for responding and helping. So I'll check his levels again at 5am and then if they are over 250 give him 1 unit and check again in 4 hours. If he doesn't eat between 5 and 6 should I skip the shot? I'm also guessing if he reads something like 260 don't give it to him since its so close?

 

[FrostD]

332 down to 83, whew that's rough, he may not feel too great with swings like that as an FYI. Good job testing and giving food. I agree with all Bron said with regard to changing insulin, testing, dosing, etc.

Now be prepared for some possibly very high numbers, drops like that (fast and/or low, definition for that is different in every cat) can cause what we call a bounce. It's when the liver panics and dumps stored glycogen and hormones into the body as a response to what it sees as an emergency. That said it's entirely possible the 300 was a bounce and his baseline diabetic numbers might be a bit lower. Time and tests will tell

 

[Jacobthecat]

332 down to 83, whew that's rough, he may not feel too great with swings like that as an FYI. Good job testing and giving food. I agree with all Bron said with regard to changing insulin, testing, dosing, etc.

Now be prepared for some possibly very high numbers, drops like that (fast and/or low, definition for that is different in every cat) can cause what we call a bounce. It's when the liver panics and dumps stored glycogen and hormones into the body as a response to what it sees as an emergency. That said it's entirely possible the 300 was a bounce and his baseline diabetic numbers might be a bit lower. Time and tests will tell

I'm guessing it's not normal for it to drop that fast? I'll post on here in the morning when I do his test again. Is there anyway to make it easier to get the blood because ever time I poke him he has a bad reaction and tries to run away where I seen other people's cats are very calm.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

was going to create his sheet in the morning. It's been a long day and I'm on day 3 of a stress headache/migraine a lot going on in the personal life and then having this added to the mix I appreciate all of you for responding and helping. So I'll check his levels again at 5am and then if they are over 250 give him 1 unit and check again in 4 hours. If he doesn't eat between 5 and 6 should I skip the shot? I'm also guessing if he reads something like 260 don't give it to him since its so close?

If you need help with the spreadsheet @Bandit's Mom would be happy to help I am sure.
I’m sorry you have a bad headache…..this won’t be helping!
He needs to head an hour before you give the Novolin N ass he has to have food aboard. As long as he eats, any BG over 250 and you can give the 1 unit. Make sure he has feed out to eat in case he needs it as well.

I'm guessing it's not normal for it to drop that fast? I'll post on here in the morning when I do his test again. Is there anyway to make it easier to get the blood because ever time I poke him he has a bad reaction and tries to run away where I seen other people's cats are very calm.

Let him have something to eat like a little treat as you were doing the test and see if that helps.

 

[Jacobthecat]

If you need help with the spreadsheet @Bandit's Mom would be happy to help I am sure.
I’m sorry you have a bad headache…..this won’t be helping!
He needs to head an hour before you give the Novolin N ass he has to have food aboard. As long as he eats, any BG over 250 and you can give the 1 unit. Make sure he has feed out to eat in case he needs it as well.


Let him have something to eat like a little treat as you were doing the test and see if that helps.

He always has food in his bowl I usually don't let it get too low or he would throw a fit lol I'll try to keep an eye in him from 5 to 6 and see if he eats anything. How do I judge if he ate enough? I've been watching him more and notice he eats a few pieces then goes and lays down then comes back an hour later and eats more.

So never give him insulin if he didn't eat in the last hour(higher BG is safer then him dropping)
No insulin if he is under 250
What is considered for him right now a good and bad zone?

I'm going to get some sleep now and test I'm 5 hours.

 

[FrostD]

I'm guessing it's not normal for it to drop that fast? I'll post on here in the morning when I do his test again. Is there anyway to make it easier to get the blood because ever time I poke him he has a bad reaction and tries to run away where I seen other people's cats are very calm.

"Normal" is a relative term around here lol

I would say it's not ideal. Not sure if you know any diabetic humans, but they'll tell you it feels like trash. What you want to ultimately aim for is a flat-ish curve where the majority of the numbers are at least below renal threshold (250-ish, every cat is different), not a sharp "v" shape.

Even better, in the 60-120 range, or 90-150...that cannot safely be done on Novolin usually, very very rarely with Vetsulin. ProZinc usually works fairly well for most cats, but to really hone in on that normal/healthy range nearly everyone has the best success with Lantus/semglee. There are a handful doing it on ProZinc as well, just less common.

 

[FrostD]

Also about costs - Novolin seems to have gone up. You can get ProZinc for about the same. Semglee retail appears to be about $150 as well, but I see GoodRX coupons for around $60 (there's been some debate as to if pharmacies will accept GoodRX for pets, I don't know).

I'm also in Ohio, I ordered my Lantus (and now Levemir) from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver (Canada). Much cheaper, unless you can use semglee coupons. I'd recommend the pens over the vials; you don't need the special needles or anything. Just draw from the pen like you would a syringe (we can give links/pics of the time comes, trying not to overload you but failing miserably)

 

[Jacobthecat]

5:09am @324

 

[Jacobthecat]

5:09am @324

@FrostD @Bron and Sheba (GA) wasn't sure if I should tag anyone I'll be giving him 1 unit of novolin n in 40 minutes then recheck after 4 hours?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

@FrostD @Bron and Sheba (GA) wasn't sure if I should tag anyone I'll be giving him 1 unit of novolin n in 40 minutes then recheck after 4 hours?

Yes it’s ok to tag someone if you need help.
Did you give him a meal after you tested?
If so it is OK to go ahead and give the 1 unit in 40 minutes time
Leave some food out for him to snack on as well and yes test around the +4 mark.
I will be asleep by then as I live in Australia and it is 9.39 pm here now. But if you have any questions at +4 you can tag @Bandit's Mom as she will be around then.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Yes it’s ok to tag someone if you need help.
Did you give him a meal after you tested?
If so it is OK to go ahead and give the 1 unit in 40 minutes time
Leave some food out for him to snack on as well and yes test around the +4 mark.
I will be asleep by then as I live in Australia and it is 9.39 pm here now. But if you have any questions at +4 you can tag @Bandit's Mom as she will be around then.

Will do! Thank you. He did eat a few bites after I tested and then ate a few more bites a few minutes ago. I'm not sure if there's an amount of food he should have before getting his shot because that would be harder to force.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Will do! Thank you. He did eat a few bites after I tested and then ate a few more bites a few minutes ago. I'm not sure if there's an amount of food he should have before getting his shot because that would be harder to force.

Will he eat any wet food at all for you.?
Keep encouraging him to eat as best you can throughout the cycle.
If he’s not a good eater before the insulin, that is another good reason to swap to either Lantus or Prozinc as the onset of insulin with those insulins is not for 2 hours after the shot so the cat doesn’t have to eat a a big meal before the shot. They can snack for the first two hours.

 

[Jacobthecat]

Will he eat any wet food at all for you.?
Keep encouraging him to eat as best you can throughout the cycle.
If he’s not a good eater before the insulin, that is another good reason to swap to either Lantus or Prozinc as the onset of insulin with those insulins is not for 2 hours after the shot so the cat doesn’t have to eat a a big meal before the shot. They can snack for the first two hours.

I have bought the wet food version of his dry food and he never tried it. He has gone to his bowl a few times since I gave him the shot. Should I look into what wet foods would be good for him and give a try?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I have bought the wet food version of his dry food and he never tried it. He has gone to his bowl a few times since I gave him the shot. Should I look into what wet foods would be good for him and give a try?

I would wait until you are on a better insulin before swapping over to a low carb diet. He needs to be eating well while on Novolin N and he mightnt eat enough food if you try to swap over at the moment. Also you need to be testing well before trying the swap as just swapping to a low carb diet can drop the BG up to 100 points.

 

[Jacobthecat]

@Bron and Sheba (GA) ok will do about the food.


Just checked him this morning 4 hours in with 1 unit and he came back at 270.

@Bandit's Mom

I have a question and anyone or anytime can answer but if jacobs BG is in the 300s and he hasn't eaten is it still safe to give the insulin or it's never a good idea to give it to him unless we know he ate.

I've been getting up at 5am and watching him till 6am to see that he eats but when I start work I'll get done at 5:30pm and home about 6pm and thats when he will get his shot. My fiancee and I were thinking of pushing it back later in the morning where they can do the shot and feeding closer to 7(they start at 7:30 so I think the latest would be like 6:45 to 6:50 then out the door) I'm not sure how 100% on time everything has to be. Sorry if there's any confusion.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

I have a question and anyone or anytime can answer but if jacobs BG is in the 300s and he hasn't eaten is it still safe to give the insulin or it's never a good idea to give it to him unless we know he ate.

Does he have a history of ketones? Novolin drops the blood sugar hard so it's important to have food on board. Is there a reason he is not eating?

I've been getting up at 5am and watching him till 6am to see that he eats but when I start work I'll get done at 5:30pm and home about 6pm and thats when he will get his shot. My fiancee and I were thinking of pushing it back later in the morning where they can do the shot and feeding closer to 7(they start at 7:30 so I think the latest would be like 6:45 to 6:50 then out the door) I'm not sure how 100% on time everything has to be. Sorry if there's any confusion.

If you shoot at 7am/7pm, will you be able to get any tests between the shots?

 

[Jacobthecat]

Does he have a history of ketones? Novolin drops the blood sugar hard so it's important to have food on board. Is there a reason he is not eating?


If you shoot at 7am/7pm, will you be able to get any tests between the shots?

I dont think so? This is all new and I just started testing him a few days ago. He does eat I just can't get him to eat on demand though I sat him next to his food this morning and he ate a few pieces.

If we did 7am to 7pm I could test him once I got home around 5:50 to 6. I have to check with my fiancee if them leaving at 7am would make them late. I just got a job with them at Amazon and picked almost the same hours so we could ride together and then we got this diagnosis.

 

[Jacobthecat]

So I think I have the testing down and made a spreadsheet I think my questions at this point are

-the novolin says to keep at room temperature but I keep seeing everyone say about fridge.

-how much food should he have before because I've been able to get him to take a few bites of food an hour before and I've seen him eating after. Usually he eats a few pieces of the dry food then comes back later.

-I seen videos of cats not reacting to having the shot or the testing done but jacob hates it and tries to run while I'm doing it

Till I start work I'll keep checking him again at the 4 hour mark then when I start to work I'll only be able to check him at the 4 hour mark at night but it would only be for 4 days out of the week.

@Bron and Sheba (GA) I talked to the vet that was working today(jacobs won't be in till monday) and I did ask about changing over and he suggested using up the bottle of insulin I have and seeing how his levels are and then going from there and changing to another brand. He was very nice and im hoping now that I have more information it will be easier talking to jacobs vet.