Concerned/confused about high BG levels tonight

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kxk34

Member Since 2022
At both PMPS and throughout the night so far Fuzzy's BG levels have been very high relative to what we've seen from her before and from what we saw today the few times we checked in the morning. Seeing how much higher her values are tonight relative to what we've seen before is making me really scared this is rebound and that she might have dipped too low today and we didn't realize...

Unfortunately, we did not test her at home very much at all today so it is hard to judge the possibility. We had decided not to test her much in the afternoon unless we felt the need to (e.g., became concerned, thought she wasn't eating as much as usual, etc.) because we did not want to put her through too much testing since we knew it would be important to check her levels tonight since she'd be getting insulin and sometimes she can get difficult to sit still for a prick later in the day. She also went to the vet today to recheck blood work, etc. and was particularly unhappy to be there today so we were trying to bother her less than usual. We thought that this would be fine since she has not had a reading below 200 after receiving 1 unit of insulin in the morning cycle any time that we've checked and throughout the day she was eating frequently and seemed to be doing well. Unfortunately, part of this plan was to test her around +5 to +6 hours for peace of mind, but due to miscommunication she was not tested again after returning home from the vet.

This morning her AMPS BG value was 336, it was 438 at +2 and on the blood work at the vet it was 273 (around +3). (We noticed in the past that the glucose levels on blood work taken at the vet differed a good bit from the Alpha TRAK meter readings (based on a previous visit where both were taken) so this drop from +2 to +3 might not be as big as it looks when comparing the meter with blood work as opposed to comparing two readings on the meter). Unfortunately, there was a miscommunication with my partner so I thought that he was going to check her BG around +5 while I was on a work call and didn't realize that he hadn't until just now when I looked at her spreadsheet and saw that the last test results we had for the first cycle was at +3.

Her PMPS BG value was 621. We were immediately concerned to see such a high value, but she'd eaten about an hour beforehand so we hoped it would go down later in the night. It has gone down relative to PMPS, but has remained higher than anything we've seen from her previously while home testing. At +2 it was 560, at +4.5 it was 515, at +6.5 it was 535, and at 10 minutes past +8 it was 556. The highest BG reading we've ever gotten was 487 at AMPS (on 1/21) (highest while on 1u insulin was 486 at +2.5 on 1/18). My partner mentioned that the only other unusual thing about the readings tonight is that her ears bled a lot during the first two checks of this cycle when usually we have a lot of difficulty getting her to bleed.

After realizing how high her values had remained, at around +7 during the PM cycle we checked her urine for ketones with a strip and it came back normal.

Tonight was the first time Fuzzy received insulin (ProZinc) twice as opposed to just in the morning (the vet we're seeing had us hold off on giving her insulin 2x a day for the first week for some reason) so it is also the first night that we have tested her blood glucose at home during the PM cycle so I am afraid we do not have any reference points for her during these times.

She ate about an hour before each of the PM cycle readings so we're not sure how that may factor into the value, but she eats pretty frequently throughout the day as well and we've never seen her values this high. (She is allowed to eat whenever she wants despite her diabetes diagnosis because she is very underweight due to IBD so restricting food too much is not an option. We only restrict during the 2 hours pre-shot in the morning).

In Fuzzy's spreadsheet linked in my signature, I added a tab with links to a pdf where you can view the cell notes we've added to her spreadsheet in case that would be helpful to have (I don't think those are viewable on the shared spreadsheet for some reason so I generated a pdf with the notes using the print function). Note: I removed the tab from the spreadsheet since I can't automatically update it with the most recent notes, but am adding this link to the pdf so that it is still accessible for documentation purposes.

Is there any chance that she could just get really high BG levels at night and we haven't been realizing it since this is our first night testing? Is there anything we need to do or check to make sure she is okay?

More general question: Can getting blood work drawn affect her blood glucose levels? That is, could she have dipped lower than we've been seeing despite not changing the dose and eating all day because she had blood taken for blood work early in the AM cycle?
 
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It is possible Fuzzy dropped lower during the am cycle today and is now bouncing.
I am glad you have changed to twice a day dosing of insulin. Cats have a fast metabolism and only giving insulin once a day leaves the other 12 hours with no insulin coverage.
You need to hold feeding for the 2 hours preshot for both the am and the pm preshots as you don’t want the BG to be food influenced.
Well done testing for ketones today. Can you put the result into the remarks column of the SS please. I would test a few times a week while Fuzzy is unregulated.
Would you mind putting into the signature that you are using Prozinc, using an alphatrak meter and what type of food you are feeding please

there any chance that she could just get really high BG levels at night and we haven't been realizing it since this is our first night testing? Is there anything we need to do or check to make sure she is okay?
It is possible but more likely she is bouncing from dropping lower today. If it is a bounce, it can last from 1 to 6 cycles so don’t be dismayed if the BG is still higher tomorrow.
Just make sure she has plenty of water to drink and eats well. I would also test for ketones again tomorrow.

Do you have a hypo kit set up and ready to use? If the BG drops below 68 you will need to feed some high carb food and or honey/Karo and test again 20 minutes later to see the BG is rising.

I am not a Prozinc user so will tag @FrostD and @JanetNJ to help you with the dosing.
 
No I don't think she is going too low. But I do think she went low enough/dropped fast enough during the day to cause a bounce like Bron said (at "worst" she saw high blue/low yellow, she's just a bouncy cat).

Give it another 2 days at the 2x a day dosing, or until the bounce clears, whichever is later. See where she settles, then consider increase.

What food is she eating currently? Any change in weight?
 
It is possible Fuzzy dropped lower during the am cycle today and is now bouncing.
I am glad you have changed to twice a day dosing of insulin. Cats have a fast metabolism and only giving insulin once a day leaves the other 12 hours with no insulin coverage.
You need to hold feeding for the 2 hours preshot for both the am and the pm preshots as you don’t want the BG to be food influenced.
Well done testing for ketones today. Can you put the result into the remarks column of the SS please. I would test a few times a week while Fuzzy is unregulated.
Would you mind putting into the signature that you are using Prozinc, using an alphatrak meter and what type of food you are feeding please


It is possible but more likely she is bouncing from dropping lower today. If it is a bounce, it can last from 1 to 6 cycles so don’t be dismayed if the BG is still higher tomorrow.
Just make sure she has plenty of water to drink and eats well. I would also test for ketones again tomorrow.

Do you have a hypo kit set up and ready to use? If the BG drops below 68 you will need to feed some high carb food and or honey/Karo and test again 20 minutes later to see the BG is rising.

I am not a Prozinc user so will tag @FrostD and @JanetNJ to help you with the dosing.

Hi – thank you for your response!

I am very glad to finally have her on the 2x a day dosing too. I really did not like leaving her knowingly unregulated at night, but because the vet had sort of vaguely presented it as if it were the cautious choice my partner did not feel comfortable altering the dose ourselves until after our follow up appointment and I didn't want to make the executive decision given his discomfort in case something went wrong somehow. I would have pushed the issue more if I realized it would be a full 10 days, but I thought it would be sorted sooner so didn't seem too harmful to hold off at the time (we were initially under the impression that we'd receive follow up instructions about dosing after the first few days, then were told to wait to change dosing until after her follow up appointment which ended up getting pushed back the day we were scheduled to be seen because the vet needed to attend to an emergency situation with another patient).

We will try to withhold food two hours before the PMPS reading as well. She has been getting very stressed and fussy about the morning period without food so we might need to try to ease her into withholding it that long in the evening too over a couple of days so that she does not get as stressed about the change. Unfortunately, Fuzzy is very underweight and needs to be on a special diet for her IBD so we are limited in what we can do about altering her diet to be more diabetes-friendly diet and about restricting food too much.

I added the information about her insulin, meter, and food in my signature and will add the information about the ketone strips to the sheet (sorry about that!) — we've been testing her with the strips regularly since diagnosis, but are still adjusting to adding all the most relevant notes to the spreadsheet since most of our notes about her are handwritten (we've basically been logging everything she does in a notebook since we got the IBD diagnosis in November — e.g., eating times, drinking times, bathroom times, presence of nausea, appetite, am/pm weight, etc).

After reading more about the bouncing I'm thinking that you are most likely right about that. Early this morning when I initially posted I was in kind of a panic about her values and totally forgot that you can see bounces with fast drops within normal limits and not just following hypoglycemia (we do have a hypo kit prepared in case of emergency).

Thanks again for your response, I appreciate it :)
 
No I don't think she is going too low. But I do think she went low enough/dropped fast enough during the day to cause a bounce like Bron said (at "worst" she saw high blue/low yellow, she's just a bouncy cat).

Give it another 2 days at the 2x a day dosing, or until the bounce clears, whichever is later. See where she settles, then consider increase.

What food is she eating currently? Any change in weight?

I think that you are most likely right. Realizing that we'd tested her less than I thought yesterday while already concerned about her levels kind of threw me in a panic this morning before I posted and in the moment I totally forgot that you can see bounces after a fast drop within normal limits and not just following hypoglycemia.

She is on a hydrolyzed protein diet for her IBD so she only eats Hill's Z/D canned wet food and Purina ProPlan Rx hydrolyzed protein dry food. We have been considering possibly adding in a novel protein wet food because we've been trying to encourage more wet food than dry food lately given the diabetes diagnosis and the Hill's has been getting harder to come by, but every diet change she's had has caused her to get sick to her stomach and have bad diarrhea for a few days so we haven't wanted to do that while she's in such a precarious state with her weight and unregulated diabetes.

Her weight has been relatively stable as of late. We realized that she'd been fluctuating between 3.7 and 4.1 lbs for several weeks and that the precise weight varies depending on what time we weigh her (e.g., in the morning vs. later in the day, after a meal, etc) so recently we've been weighing her at home at least 2x daily (am/pm) to help us develop a better understanding of what constitutes gain/loss for her and so that we know right away if she starts to dip below that range.
 
Ok gotcha! I asked about food as a safety measure mostly, I knew she was on the special food because of IBD and weight just wanted to see if anything changed.

So the feeding is also contributing to the swings you're seeing. The higher carb stuff, especially fed after nadir, is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot. Throw in a bounce as well (carbs + after nadir + starting a bounce = adding jet fuel to a fire), that's when you get those sky high numbers. That said, keeping her eating and weight gain is most important right now.

What's the pred situation?
 
You might want to search my post about the AlphaTrak versus lab results versus Human meter. We found our AlphaTrak to be WAY off and we wound up over-dosing our boy to the point where he was a zombie cat. We've since based his dosing on a human meter that agrees with our vets lab results and all of his zombie symptoms have resolved. He's back to himself again. Just an FYI
 
Ok gotcha! I asked about food as a safety measure mostly, I knew she was on the special food because of IBD and weight just wanted to see if anything changed.

So the feeding is also contributing to the swings you're seeing. The higher carb stuff, especially fed after nadir, is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot. Throw in a bounce as well (carbs + after nadir + starting a bounce = adding jet fuel to a fire), that's when you get those sky high numbers. That said, keeping her eating and weight gain is most important right now.

What's the pred situation?

I remember you'd mentioned to try to feed most of her food early in the cycle so we've been trying to discourage the dry food and encourage the canned food post-nadir, but it's hard when she's being picky.

The vet had wanted us to start giving her subQ fluids at home because of elevated calcium on blood work a few weeks ago (even though she has no problem hydrating at home and drinks a good amount) and she started getting pickier about the canned food on days we would do the fluids for some reason. Unfortunately her blood work on Monday also showed that she had elevated sodium for the first time that looks like it could be related to that which is frustrating and worries me since I read hyperglycemia can sometimes be implicated in that too and she's been higher since that appointment because of the bounce... They weren't super clear on how we should proceed to make sure she's okay with that either... I'm so grateful that Fuzzy's normal vet finally returns from maternity leave next week.

She is still getting pred once daily around 1 pm (5mg)
 
You might want to search my post about the AlphaTrak versus lab results versus Human meter. We found our AlphaTrak to be WAY off and we wound up over-dosing our boy to the point where he was a zombie cat. We've since based his dosing on a human meter that agrees with our vets lab results and all of his zombie symptoms have resolved. He's back to himself again. Just an FYI

Thank you I will look into it! We haven't changed her dose yet and the lowest her blood glucose values have gotten are low 200s so overdosing her shouldn't have been an issue to date but definitely as we get her more controlled we'll want to make sure that we're getting accurate readings.
 
I would increase to 1.25U, she's had enough time at this dose BID. You could go 1.5U but that may exacerbate bouncing, I'd expect nadirs probably around 130-150 at 1.5U
 
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