? Hendrick AMPS 543 possible missfire on shot -- guidance?

Hendrick Cuddleclaw

Hendrick Cuddleclaw

Very Active Member
Almost positive I got little to no insulin into Hendrick as he jerked away after the needle was in, right as I was pushing the plunger. Strong insulin smell all around

If I can actually manage to test him by myself (have always had a helper so far) at +2 or +3 and his numbers are still 500s, 600s or higher...what do I do, anything? I am unclear on whether or not a dose of insulin outside of the 12/12 schedule is recommended at that point.

Please advise.
 
I would wait for an admin to pop in, but in general as far as I know they don't recommend that we reshoot a fur shot.

If I suspect I've done one I write it up on my spreadsheet as "fur?", and have written a rule to change the cell colour to make it stand out a bit more like this:

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Then I just monitor through the day and see what the results say, and shoot normal amount next time, but someone with more experience than me should also weigh in soon.
 

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Thanks, I was pretty sure that was the answer. I am worried in particular with him being just two weeks from a DKA and mild pancreatitis hospitalization. BG super high all day until evening dose is definitely not what we wanted, especially since he has apparently been bouncing (last couple +3's were 118 and 142)

gonna be a long day of worrying
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Thanks, I was pretty sure that was the answer. I am worried in particular with him being just two weeks from a DKA and mild pancreatitis hospitalization. BG super high all day until evening dose is definitely not what we wanted, especially since he has apparently been bouncing (last couple +3's were 118 and 142)

gonna be a long day of worrying
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Yup, I do that a LOT, and Hissey Whisk's numbers aren't nearly that high!
 
fur shots r the worst. sorry, we have all done it.
do u have some ketostix? u cud monitor his pee to see keytone levels. i guess they could go either way and either alleviate worry or cause it...sorry im no help. :rolleyes:good luck today!
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
I have a blood ketone meter, strips ordered and due to arrive today but no ketostix atm. Well, here goes my first solo hometest attempt wish me luck...we are at +2 of the possible fur shot
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if hendrick is a wiggler, try putting a towel or small blanket round in front of his legs, and close it in back while u get ur body behind him. most cats tend to move backwards...hth
 
well, good news bad news I guess. Good news being I got a BG test solo for the first time ever

but as I already knew, AM shot was all fur. 492 :(

that is down a tiny bit from AMPS of 543 so I wonder if a small amount of the shot got in there

not sure if it even makes sense to record that on the sheet

Also, I suppose I should NOT do the normal small meals throughout the first half of the cycle today right

cause thats only going to pump that BG higher?
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
well, good news bad news I guess. Good news being I got a BG test solo for the first time ever

but as I already knew, AM shot was all fur. 492 :(

that is down a tiny bit from AMPS of 543 so I wonder if a small amount of the shot got in there

not sure if it even makes sense to record that on the sheet

Also, I suppose I should NOT do the normal small meals throughout the first half of the cycle today right

cause thats only going to pump that BG higher?
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An admin will know more, but I would keep to the normal schedule with a fur shot - remember as someone once told me, diabetics do not 'use their calories wisely', so small low carb meals will at least keep him in a place where he can digest something.

When I do a fur shot on Madam here, I keep to my normal schedule, but be sure to record it as a fur shot - but then all cats are different, and you have different circumstances to the ones I have, but the fur shot record will help make sense of the out of whack readings.
 
i would still feed him, just try to find the lowest carb u have. if they are used to the multiple small meals, they can get nauseous and vomit bile if you go too long without feeding. ive only been on here for ovr a month, so up 2 u if u take my advice of course.
and ya, great job poking!
 
oh yeah that makes perfect sense, to make sure I'm giving him the lowest carb options today in particular. Everything we have is under 10%, I believe. But I'll find the lowest and use that ty
 
We’ve all been there, it really sucks but please don’t blame yourself too much, the beginning are veeeeryy challenging but i promise it will get better very fast. Generally it is correct what @stannarp wrote, you shouldn’t give a second dose even if you suspect the first had almost none but since ur kitty is a ckd let me try to bring some experienced eyes on your case @Bandit's Mom @tiffmaxee @Bron and Sheba (GA)

definitely feed, food and water are veeeeeryy important with a kitty that is at ckd risk
 
Marina & Chico said:
We’ve all been there, it really sucks but please don’t blame yourself too much, the beginning are veeeeryy challenging but i promise it will get better very fast. Generally it is correct what @stannarp wrote, you shouldn’t give a second dose even if you suspect the first had almost none but since ur kitty is a ckd let me try to bring some experienced eyes on your case @Bandit's Mom @tiffmaxee @Bron and Sheba (GA)

definitely feed, food and water are veeeeeryy important with a kitty that is at ckd risk
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thanks for the kind words, honestly it is killing me because I was just thinking to myself the other day that I had the insulin shot down pat at this point, piece of cake, was kinda patting myself on the back a little yknow

and today the universe took one look at my hubris and said nay nay
 
I posted on your other thread but moved over here - he's bouncing, so we really can't tell if insulin got in. I would leave it be. If you were to shoot at this point you'd end up with overlapping cycles tonight or way off schedule, and without being able to test reliably that's a recipe for a bit of trouble. Just keep him eating and drinking.

Still record data, feed as usual. All data is good data to have.
 
FrostD said:
He'll be ok, we've all done it. I would not give another dose even if you get high numbers.

Let's change those meals. Snacks are good, but the PS meal - let's split that in half. Half at PS, half at +1. And see if that helps those dives (and make a note in SS that you're trying that - any time you change a "variable" always good to note - changes to food, timing, meds, etc)
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So just so I understand this approach -- the idea is that his PS BG is so high, it's probably going even higher with the meal and then the insulin is causing it to drop far and fast (dive, as you put it).

So we are spreading the calories out a bit to sort of offset the impact of the insulin?
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
well, good news bad news I guess. Good news being I got a BG test solo for the first time ever

but as I already knew, AM shot was all fur. 492 :(

that is down a tiny bit from AMPS of 543 so I wonder if a small amount of the shot got in there

not sure if it even makes sense to record that on the sheet

Also, I suppose I should NOT do the normal small meals throughout the first half of the cycle today right

cause thats only going to pump that BG higher?
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Actually you SHOULD feed the small meals throughput the day. It helps level them out. Just feed lc when high. We never know how much gets in with a fur shot which is why you never shoot a second dose. You could overdose him!
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
So just so I understand this approach -- the idea is that his PS BG is so high, it's probably going even higher with the meal and then the insulin is causing it to drop far and fast (dive, as you put it).

So we are spreading the calories out a bit to sort of offset the impact of the insulin?
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Correct. @Rainbow Conti is a good example of this. Little Man dives early in the cycle, so she has to carb-load a bit to help slow him down and prevent bouncing
 
I had food that was 1-2% carb for when Ruby was in high, safe numbers, and 7-8% for front loading the carbs when she looked like she was going to go low or I got a low number at preshot that made me nervous. I would get a variety, record what you feed in the remarks, and see what the tests tell you about the way Hendrick responds to food.
 
Katherine&Ruby said:
I had food that was 1-2% carb for when Ruby was in high, safe numbers, and 7-8% for front loading the carbs when she looked like she was going to go low or I got a low number at preshot that made me nervous. I would get a variety, record what you feed in the remarks, and see what the tests tell you about the way Hendrick responds to food.
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This is exactly what I'm doing with Whiskey tonight, mc to keep her in the safe greens :-)

@Hendrick's mom and dad you have this!
 
Yes I do give a mix of 1 to 2 % with 9% at +1 to offset a huge dive. You may have to play around a bit. Little Man is very carb sensitive so if I gave him 5% at meal time preshot it may be too much. If he is low at ps I will sometimes give a 4 or 5% though to help boost him in as well as the small amount at +1 in anticipation. It is super trial and error took me awhile to figure out what works best. ;)
 
ok thanks everyone. I admit that I thought I understood keeping him on a low-carb (5% or lower) canned or raw food diet was how it was going to be now, for good. Didn't think we would be purposely feeding a higher carb meal ever unless got a hypo.

The approach makes sense though. PMPS was 421 which kinda boggles my mind a little, with the fur shot and a AM +3 of 492...I expected higher PMPS BG

can't quite wrap my head around it tbh

and just when we thought we were getting the home BG test down, the attempt went totally sideways, my wife made two attempts and he made a little cry both times which is typically a sign you got it...but nothing. I took over, and got a droplet on 2nd attempt...so four pokes for one BG

we are emotionally wrecked, god that sucked
 
Low carb is under 9%. Cats that dive sometimes need the higher low carb so they don’t drop too fast or too low and bounce. They need to get used to normal numbers which means it’s necessary to feed the curve so they can get enough insulin to avoid premature drops that cause reductions before they are used to a dose. The more time in normal bg the more healing time for the pancreas. Does this make sense?
 
tiffmaxee said:
Low carb is under 9%. Cats that dive sometimes need the higher low carb so they don’t drop too fast or too low and bounce. They need to get used to normal numbers which means it’s necessary to feed the curve so they can get enough insulin to avoid premature drops that cause reductions before they are used to a dose. The more time in normal bg the more healing time for the pancreas. Does this make sense?
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yes it does ty :)
 
No problem. Can you make a note in remarks column for what you fed and when?

At quick glance it seems maybe it was a smidge too much or too high carb % at +1 or whatever the second meal was - BUT - his pattern will be a little off because of the furshot and his bouncing. Try it for maybe 3 days, then consider adjusting it.
 
FrostD said:
No problem. Can you make a note in remarks column for what you fed and when?

At quick glance it seems maybe it was a smidge too much or too high carb % at +1 or whatever the second meal was - BUT - his pattern will be a little off because of the furshot and his bouncing. Try it for maybe 3 days, then consider adjusting it.
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done and done, thanks. Funny, didn't even know the remarks column was there, never scrolled over that far. Had entered stuff in cell notes, whoops
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
and just when we thought we were getting the home BG test down, the attempt went totally sideways, my wife made two attempts and he made a little cry both times which is typically a sign you got it...but nothing. I took over, and got a droplet on 2nd attempt...so four pokes for one BG

we are emotionally wrecked, god that sucked
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We all have passed thru this, it will get better very quickly though, i promise :bighug::bighug: it took us abt 2 weeks to be able to do testing and injections alone
 
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