Ziggy 12/26/21 AMPS:247,+6: 196 +11 : 156

Ziggyloveforever

Ziggyloveforever

Member Since 2021
Well guys we did it this morning ! Found a video of someone pricking the middle of the ear where several veins collide and we got it in our second prick he is a happy boy and he didn’t have the best holiday yesterday I couldn’t get it at all yesterday despite trying for 30/45 minutes several times throughout the day but today just by changing spots to a different area we got it literally only two pokes and it feels so good I’m so happy for him !
 
Ziggy is anemic due to a rare blood parasite which infected his RBCs he’s at the tail end of treatment for now hoping that brings his WBC count down significantly ! He also was in the beginning stages of a severe battle with pancreatitis, hoping the blood work were going in for tomorrow shows improvement although his ultrasound from December 17th still showed severe inflammation of the pancreas. He has always had a high WBC count his internal medicine doctor said that because sometimes with severe inflammation the WBC elevates but he also told me a low red blood cell count is common and chronic in FIV kitties and it wound up being a rare blood parasite no one would have ever mentioned had I not read about it somewhere they proceeded by trying to talk me out of the test claiming it’s rare and he tested positive for not one but all three types of mycoplasma parasites
 
I’m open to any and every suggestion I’m going in tomorrow so if there are any tests you recommend @Sienne and Gabby (GA) please let me know would appreciate anyones suggestions reading through some of everyone here’s threads the duality here is amazing alot of people have cats that have multiple issues with stories and some sound like Ziggys many just in a different order any test recommendations thought and ideas are appreciated did anyone else’s here have a kitty who became diabetic with a flare of pancreatitis ?
 
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Hi Gen happy you got a test with just 2 pokes this morning
When you post on the lantus board you would do it like this
12-26 Ziggy AMPS- 247
Any other test after that you would just go back to your title and add them,
Example 12-26 Ziggy AMPS-247/220 @+3 and so on.
Then PMPS
Try to be more tests in so we can see how the insulin is working both day and night cycles
Have you decided on a dosing method to follow
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-methods-start-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Gen happy you got a test with just 2 pokes this morning
When you post on the lantus board you would do it like this
12-26 Ziggy AMPS- 247
Any other test after that you would just go back to your title and add them,
Example 12-26 Ziggy AMPS-247/220 @+3 and so on.
Then PMPS
Try to be more tests in so we can see how the insulin is working both day and night cycles
Have you decided on a dosing method to follow
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
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Oh wow I’m sorry very good to know that makes a lot of sense will update my post title ! I previously haven’t been very successful getting blood at all I’m going to try and get more in now that we found a promising spot (the middle of the ear) if I gave him insulin at 10:30 today that should mean I test at 4:30 ish right ? Definitely going to try it’s been hard to decide on a dose because of how little BG data I’ve been able to pull from him the times I did get it I pricked the leg, hired a tech for a pet sitting at home to help get it, and from the ear only twice but since changing the location of the ear this morning more tests look promising I also have been using the urine strips jist to get an idea of their consistency im not sure how it could correlate it to anything that helps me dose and because of all the factors of how long they last peed ect but being so unsuccessful with the pokes I figured it better than nothing he also has been going to the bathroom much less so I’ve been able to get less urine readings throughout the day and they’re probably way more concentrated
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
if I gave him insulin at 10:30 today that should mean I test at 4:30 ish right
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Yes that would be @+6, I realize you have trouble testing but it would be helpful to get a test @+3 also ( 3 hours after giving insulin)
The more tests you can get the better it is so you can see how the dose it working for him and how low he's dropping and when to increase or decrease.

I see in your previous thread you might follow SLGS , if so can you add that to your signature so members won't have to keep asking you :cat:
You can add it to your SS also at the top of the SS
 
Awesome I gotcha I thought you meant had I committed to a certain dose as in numbers but unfortunately for now I have to use the start low go slow protocol I can already see the vein by where I got from only once has blown out it doesn’t look swollen just bruised he gets so much medications shots and pricks he’s ears have already been so damaged I don’t want to push my luck either will definitely be going for a 6+ hour reading I haven’t gotten one of those since day 1 I’m hoping my vet will clear him for libre that will just take a little time we re test everything tomorrow and get an ElISa FIV viral load test this test should tell me how strong of a hold FIV has on his body by showing the viral load if it’s within reasonable range and she thinks the paw has healed from surgery well we can proceed the Elisa, CBC and urinalysis should come back that week if anyone has any test suggestions thoughts or ideas I would love to know
 
Gen -

Have you not been giving Ziggy a shot most evenings? With Lantus, it's important to do your best to not skip shots. Each dose builds on the previous shot because Lantus is a depot type of insulin. The depot won't stabilize if you skip shots or make back-to-back changes in the dose.

Many of our cats were diagnosed with pancreatitis at the time of their diabetes diagnosis. Gabby certainly was. In fact, she spent 3 nights in the ICU with diabetic ketoacidosis, pancreatitis, and hepatic lipidosis. If you want more reading on pancreatitis, this Primer on Pancreatitis that Marje wrote, may be helpful.

I'm not sure how comfortable you are with making changes on Ziggy's spreadsheet. I'm tagging @Bandit's Mom in case you need some help.

Given your reply to my question about Ziggy's labs, I want to make a suggestion. Your kitty has a lot going on. Probably more than what your signature line can accommodate. If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet, I did a bit of manipulating so I could put some relevant information about medications along the top. Some of us do get a bit nosy if we're suspecting something medical is going on -- hence my question about labs. If you could include that information on your spreadsheet and add a note to your signature indicating that there's more information on your spreadsheet, that would be very helpful.
 
So basically it’s helpful if I add - see labs in SS - onto my signature ? For the SS where would I include all his dxs like I do on the Signature ?

please get all kinds of nosey with his lab works I wish I could include his biopsy I’ll have new bloodwork this week by Friday appointment is tomorrow any test suggestions are welcome. Although his pancreatitis hasn’t improved on ultrasound it has improved symptomatically, he’s eating and playing again. He was not eating and needing pain meds/ cerenia/ at home subq fluids, app stimulant ect to help keep him hydrated and feed he doesn’t need any of those things he hasn’t for almost 3 weeks now so I’m not sure if what we saw on ultrasound the 17th of December was inflammation or scarring
 
Also about the dosing so even if I can get a BG at night I should follow through with the regular insulin dose ? I haven’t been able to get more than 1 poke a day if that so I was afraid to shoot him
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
Also about the dosing so even if I can get a BG at night I should follow through with the regular insulin dose ? I haven’t been able to get more than 1 poke a day if that so I was afraid to shoot him
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I see @Chris & China (GA) suggested this from your previous post

Here it is I copied the conversation
  1. You said
    He’s been very very hungry after insulin eating more than he ever has
    That concerns me that he may be dropping too low so he's more frantic for food.

    Chris replied
  2. You might want to try a smaller dose than even .25....maybe 0.1
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  3. Ziggyloveforever
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Okay will go to .1 because it’s scary how much he’s been eating to be honest what do I do if I can’t get a BG before nighttime shoot
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
What do you suggest 0.1 for both cycles since she has trouble testing
 
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) we’re about to attemp amps +6 to get more data I will keep you all posted
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I did tag some members for you to see what they have to say, hopefully someone will be on soon
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No worries I have until 10:30 pm tonight he was given insulin at 10:30 am this morning. We’re just setting up in attempts to get the amps +6 test hopefully we get that and have more information
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) we’re about to attemp amps +6 to get more data I will keep you all posted


No worries I have until 10:30 pm tonight he was given insulin at 10:30 am this morning. We’re just setting up in attempts to get the amps +6 test hopefully we get that and have more information
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I tagged the members on this thread you did today on the Welcome and Main Forum, you have two threads for today about the same thing
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/any-help-appreciated.257120/#post-2893193
previous post
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Wendy&Neko

@Chris & China (GA)

@tiffmaxee

@FrostD

@JanetNJ

Ladies please go to the link I posted here
Thank you ladies
 
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In case the information is of value he gets his Dexamethasone injection at 9pm once daily. His schedule is as follows

7am doxycycline- amps ( -3 amps )
10am was our AMPS reading
.10 insulin was given at 10:30am with large meal and metronidazole
7pm doxycycline -amps+ 7 1/2
9:30pm dexamethasone- amps +11
10:30pm will be insulin with large meal and metronidazole
 
Hi Gen,

Hard to give advice with a +6 test. That gives 6 hours before your shot, and kitties who are newly diagnosed can swing up or down rapidly, even within an hour. If you could try to get a test an hour before shot time (+11) and post here with the result, we can help you then with deciding what to do. I know testing has been challenging, but please do try to do it as it is really important that you get another shot in this evening.

It's helpful if you're asking for advice if you could fill in your spreadsheet with that +6 test result. We tend to look at trends, not single tests or static numbers.

It may be helpful for you to look at other people's spreadsheets to see how they test and the kinds of numbers kitties can have on insulin. I know it's overwhelming right now, but soon you will be a whiz at understanding what all of those numbers mean!
 
Thank you so much and I’m so sorry I thought I did update the spread sheet ! I’ll do that asap yes I’ve been skipping night time insulin because I wasn’t able to get readings on him but we recently found the middle of the ear works well for us so I’ll definitely be attempting the +11 today I did check out some other spreadsheets but I was wondering if the difference in the weights of the cats have anything to do with the amount of insulin that’s given ?
 
Okie dokie good to know thanks so much ! I’m glad you guys can see it that’s a relief I don’t have it bookmarked I don’t know how to do that but I’m sure there’s a YouTube instructions on
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
the difference in the weights of the cats have anything to do with the amount of insulin that’s given
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Yes, weight gets taken into account with determining the starting dose. Here's a bit on it from the Dosing Methods sticky at the top of the Lantus forum list:

How to determine an initial starting dose for glargine or detemir when following the Tight Regulation Protocol:​
    • the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight
    • if kitty is underweight, the formula frequently used is 0.25 unit per kg of kitty's actual weight
    • if the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be determined by taking prior data into consideration
 
11 lbs is 5 kilos, so your ideal starting dose would be 1.25 units if following Tight Regulation. Since you are following SLGS, here is another bit from that same sticky:

Starting Dose:​
    • 1u BID if kitty is not on a wet/canned low carb diet
    • 0.5u BID if kitty has been switched to a wet/canned low carb diet
    • If the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration
    • Generally, shots are to be given 12 hours apart.
If your kitty is just on wet food, .5 units would be the place to start.
 
Okay so I’ve been not giving enough then ! I’ve been giving .10 so I should be doing .5 units ? Can I start that tomorrow in the am cycle so I’m awake to monitor?
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
Okay so I’ve been not giving enough then ! I’ve been giving .10 so I should be doing .5 units ? Can I start that tomorrow in the am cycle so I’m awake to monitor?
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I’ve been staying up with him for many nights in a row I’ll stay up if need be so whatever you think is best I’ll work around !
 
He’s currently begging me for food he doesn’t approve of these two hour fasts for BG testing but that is a requirement correct ?
 
Yes absolutely I have all the supplies I need and an ER 12 minutes away I pray we never need, today is the first day I was very successful testing I will make sure to test at 3+ and 6+ and will poke a leg vein if need be I’m scared because although I was successful today, I was NOT the first 3 days
 
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I’ve already given the .10, I have hypo supplies and plenty of testing supplies I have honey maple syrup and Karo syrup if need be, I have a high calorie dry I can feed if need be I’ll stay up with him if this can help regulate him. This is the lowest I’ve seen his numbers and last night was the first night I dosed insulin successfully are there any times I should check BG in particular besides +3 and +6 ?
 
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Ziggyloveforever said:
are there any times I should check BG in particular besides +3 and +6 ?
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On the PM cycle, I'd suggest a +2 to start and then at least 1 more test sometime later. I don't know how much of a night owl you are so shooting so late may mean a lot of late nights for you.

I understand you give him meds at 7am...is there a reason you don't want to give his insulin then? If you could shoot at 7am/7pm, you'd be able to get at least 2 tests on the PM cycle and still be able to get a reasonable amount of sleep. Most cats do go lower at night so it's something to consider.
 
Yes you’re correct I’m going to stay up late, I’m actually taking off work the next two weeks to figure this all out the only reason I did insulin at 10:30 was because I followed my only successful BG test (for a few days I had no success testing regularly) and when I was able to regulate testing 10:30 pm is what it happened to fall on I would prefer to shoot at 7am/7pm but is it too late for that now ? When I go back to work 7am:7pm would be a lot more convenient but I’ll do whatever I have to
@Chris & China (GA)
 
Tomorrow (if he tests negative for mycoplasma pasrasites) is his last day of doxycycline I have to feed with doxy so I had to wait 2 hours after which was why I was successful regulating testing around 10:30 I began to test at 9:30
 
So I’m monitoring him very closely he’s walking normal, I took his favorite toy out and he’s happily playing with it. He seems his normal self if I’m doing SLGS protocol do I have to test BG if he’s acting just fine ? Got 3 successful tests today tried again tonight after PM shot for about 30 min I’m giving him a break now we got no blood if he’s acting normal should I still push for another one ? @Chris & China (GA)
 
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Ziggyloveforever said:
but is it too late for that now ?
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No it's not too late but there are 2 ways to do it. IF you happen to need to skip a shot sometime over the next several days, you can change your shot schedule then. (Like if you had to skip a 10:30am shot, there's no reason you couldn't shoot at 7pm that night and then you'd be on a 7am/7pm schedule)

Or, you can work your way backwards by shooting 15 minutes early each cycle or 30 minutes early once per day until you're at your chosen shot schedule
 
Very very good to know @Chris & China (GA) thank you so so very much =] I feel like I’ve just begun to get him regulated with daily insulin injections and successfully testing at home if I do need to skip a dose then I’ll definitely do that but otherwise I’ll probably hang in there until next week just for some consistency before tapering 15 minutes with doses to reach desired time ? Does that make sense or am I overthinking it ? Also just tried to get a BG we were not successful he’s playing and walking fine acting like his normal self should I push for the BG or can I monitor behavior and test if something seems off
 
Ziggyloveforever said:
if he’s acting normal should I still push for another one ?
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Yes...you really can't tell what his BG is by how he's acting...until it's potentially too late. By the time they're acting wrong, it could already be an emergency.

If you plan on continuing to use the middle part of his ear instead of the edge (which I totally understand why you're doing that), you might want to consider a lancet device called Genteel lancet device. If you watch how it works, you'll understand why I don't know how well it would work if you were trying on the edge of the ear, but it seems like it might work in the middle. You do have to be able to hold it there long enough for it to "suck" up but I've seen quite a few posts on a diabetic dog group and people really love it for their "hard to test" pups.

 
Also thank you immensely definitely going to look into that lancing device I do have one I’m using for his middle ear but I’ve used it on myself and it doesn’t go very deep
 
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