? 11/12 Eddie AMPS 396 +6 263 PMPS 272 +2 308 Question re: dose/cycle

Jodey&Eddie&Blue

Jodey&Eddie&Blue

Member Since 2021
good morning, here is yesterday:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-353-3-394-8-239-pmps-292-2-196-6-155.256513/

My question has to do with the high numbers @ AMPS since 11/21 when they were blue in the morning.

That dose 8u - 8.5u has something to it but I don't exactly know what and don't know how to read it.

Could someone share your thoughts?

@FrostD or @Wendy&Neko

Yesterday Wendy enabled me to see what's possible within a cycle after an earned reduction with SRT kitties so am hoping to add to my understanding here in regards the 11/18-11/21 in contrast to now, since then.
 
I've been mulling that over as well, but unless something changed around that date (feeding pattern, food itself, illness, etc) I think it's just one of those things that happens. The pred change may have something to do with it but it doesn't explain that far back
 
tiffmaxee said:
Do you give prednisolone at night?
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In fact, yes, and started doing so between Nov 21-23. I had missed giving Pred one morning and gave it to him at night and because he gets it only once a day, I just continued giving it at night so as to keep 24 hours between taking it. He is on a relatively small dose of Pred: 1.25mg/1xdaily.

Maybe that's the smoking gun. I'm going to try changing back to the morning. I can't give it more than once a day as 1/4 of a 5mg tab is already really small.

@FrostD and I were discussing this awhile back, in fact.
 
Jodey&Eddie said:
I can't give it more than once a day as 1/4 of a 5mg tab is already really small.
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If you have a compounding pharmacy there, you can get it made up as chew treats in any size you want. I get chicken flavoured ones that make giving pred so much easier! And bonus, if I go away, pet sitter has no problem giving meds either. I get 2 mg ones now, and if I try tapering dose to 1 mg, the chew treat still cuts really easily.

11/08-11/13 he was fond of pink AMPS, and that was before you switched up the pred. Any change in feeding patterns lately? It could just be that he's being a cat. :cat:

He should break any bounce today or tonight. Should know soon how 7.75 is doing.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you have a compounding pharmacy there, you can get it made up as chew treats in any size you want. I get chicken flavoured ones that make giving pred so much easier! And bonus, if I go away, pet sitter has no problem giving meds either. I get 2 mg ones now, and if I try tapering dose to 1 mg, the chew treat still cuts really easily.

11/08-11/13 he was fond of pink AMPS, and that was before you switched up the pred. Any change in feeding patterns lately? It could just be that he's being a cat. :cat:

He should break any bounce today or tonight. Should know soon how 7.75 is doing.
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This is good to know, Wendy. I do actually have a compounding pharmacy nearby and will check that out.

We're 263 @ +6 (I had to go out this morning and wasn't able to get anything between AMPS and now) and so, hopefully we'll be moving into break-bounce territory.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Your vet should know of compounding pharmacies that do pet meds. Not all do.
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Actually, the pharmacy in question has already compounded liquid and flavoured Prednisolone for Blue, Eddie's brother. Eddie just does not take to liquids and I never want to force them on him because of danger of aspiration in his resistance.

Eddie takes the .125 mg Prednisolone easily enough in a little treat. The question for me is when is the best time to give him Prednisolone, meaning that since Prednisolone contributes to insulin resistance, when in Eddie's AMPS or PMPS cycle would it least affect the efficacy of the insulin, if that makes sense.
 
Jodey&Eddie said:
when is the best time to give him Prednisolone, meaning that since Prednisolone contributes to insulin resistance, when in Eddie's AMPS or PMPS cycle would it least affect the efficacy of the insulin,
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I'm afraid the answer is ECID. You have to experiment and see how it impacts Eddie.

FrostD said:
does budesonide not serve the same purpose in this instance?
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No. Budesonide acts primarily in the GI system. Which is why it can be used as an alternative to pred for Gi diseases.
 
Jodey&Eddie said:
The question for me is when is the best time to give him Prednisolone,
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I have pondered this question a lot myself. I give pred twice a day in even doses, and for the most part, Ruby is still higher in the AM cycle than she is in the PM cycle, which follows the pattern of cats being higher at AMPS than PMPS. If you are going to experiment, I would look at trends over many weeks to see what emerges. It took a few months of being on pred before Ruby started to consistently show green numbers in both cycles, with corresponding increases in insulin. I have seen another cat on pred every 4 days, @Margaret (and Pearl), and Pearl had a noticeable bump from it in the cycle it was given. I have not been able to notice this trend in Ruby. The combination of the waves of action of insulin with the steroid muddies the picture a bit. As Wendy said, ECID.
 
Katherine&Ruby said:
I have pondered this question a lot myself. I give pred twice a day in even doses, and for the most part, Ruby is still higher in the AM cycle than she is in the PM cycle, which follows the pattern of cats being higher at AMPS than PMPS. If you are going to experiment, I would look at trends over many weeks to see what emerges. It took a few months of being on pred before Ruby started to consistently show green numbers in both cycles, with corresponding increases in insulin. I have seen another cat on pred every 4 days, @Margaret (and Pearl), and Pearl had a noticeable bump from it in the cycle it was given. I have not been able to notice this trend in Ruby. The combination of the waves of action of insulin with the steroid muddies the picture a bit. As Wendy said, ECID.
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I hear you and Wendy re: ECID. It's really just a matter of trying something out and mapping it in relation to the SS data. The complication with Eddie is that he's post hypophysectomy and SRT so he has to take Pred daily and, thus, has the potential to encounter Pred-driven insulin resistance.

We've been hovering for the past few weeks with the insulin dose and the Pred changes so it's hard to know the interaction between the two when it comes to earned reductions...

Wendy thought we might break the bounce today or tonight. We'll see...
 
@Bandit's Mom Hope you are around tonight.

No earned reduction but a question about dose: as of tomorrow AMPS, will he need to go back to 8u based on his numbers? Or will he be on 7.75 for another couple of rounds? thanks, Bhooma.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Normally I would say go back up, but it being Eddie (acro + post SRT), I wonder if you want to hold the dose longer.

@Wendy&Neko
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It’s hard to tell, isn’t it. And we seem to have this choreography with two steps forward (decrease dose) and one step back (increase). Repeat.
Wendy might recommend hold the dose for a couple more but we’ll see at AMPS, I guess.
At least Eddie’s ears get a rest from poking.
Thank you, Bhooma.
 
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