Biscuits neuropathy and Vetsulin

[Karen & Biscuits]

Hi everyone! My apologies that I've been MIA again for awhile. I've had a very sick kitty (not Biscuits), that sadly had to go to the Rainbow Bridge last Sunday. Her issues took up a lot of my time and I just haven't had a chance to get back in here as much as I wanted to.
However, my Biscuits is getting worse with her neuropathy. Some time ago someone on my facebook page for my feral colony, sent me a bottle of vitamin B-12 but it's not the same as what some of you have been talking about on here. I just can't find the name of the one some of you suggested and I wish I had gotten that one instead. I talked to my vet about the one I have, showed her the bottle and she came back telling me NOT to give it to Biscuits as it is not the same makeup as veterinary B-12. So now I'm feeling stuck. Most of you who use the methylcobalamin are saying your cats responded well to it and that it really improved their ability to walk, jump, climb etc. I don't know if the one I have is just the wrong type or what. Is there a way i can upload a photo of it to you so you can all look at it and tell me if it's safe to use? The only difference I'm seeing is that mine says 2000 mcg where I believe someone here said you need to give them 5000 mcg per day - is that correct?
Mine is from Nutricost and it just says Vitamin B-12 (methylcobalamin) 2000 mcg and has 240 capsules in the bottle. I don't see anything else on it that might be harmful but after the vet told me not to give it to her, I'm wondering what the difference is between what you use and what I've got.
I'm also going to have to switch her to ProZinc or some other insulin because the Vetsulin is not working. I've bumped her up to 7 units twice a day and she's still staying in the 500-575 range most days, especially at night. I don't know why. She's not eating a lot and it makes me wonder if she's in a lot of pain from the neuropathy. I know humans experience high glucose when they have difficulty managing chronic pain, so I wonder if it's the same for diabetic cats with neuropathy and maybe that's contributing to her high glucose levels. What do you recommend I do in this situation? I'm scared I'm going to lose Biscuits if I don't get her sugar under control. I know her organs can be seriously affected and so can her eyesight. Thankfully her eyes still seem fine, but Skittles has developed severe cataracts and I don't want that to happen to Biscuits too, nor do I want either of them to have other issues with their organs.
When I try to upload a photo of the Vitamin B-12 I keep getting a message that I don't have permission to upload a file. What am I doing wrong?
Hope you all have a great weekend! Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[JanetNJ]

The one you have is fine to give but I'd give two Day. (It's the b12 methylcobalamin type, correct?) Zobaline is the one you are thinking of... You can get it on amazon. The upload function isn't working but if you copy And paste a pic you can do it that way.

I'm glad you are switching insulins. Vetsulin stings at high doses and ProZinc doesn't. I'd have your cat tested for acromegaly. My cat had it and was high dose.

 

[Karen & Biscuits]

The one you have is fine to give but I'd give two Day. (It's the b12 methylcobalamin type, correct?) Zobaline is the one you are thinking of... You can get it on amazon. The upload function isn't working but if you copy And paste a pic you can do it that way.

I'm glad you are switching insulins. Vetsulin stings at high doses and ProZinc doesn't. I'd have your cat tested for acromegaly. My cat had it and was high dose.

Thank you for your reply Janet. Yes, Zobaline was the one I was trying to remember. Is it the LifeLink brand for $33.90 on amazon? I may just go ahead and order it tonight. My other question is, if Biscuits sugar is still out of whack is the VB12 even going to help? With her numbers so high I'm guessing not until we can get that leveled out. Right now she's still eating Fancy Feast pates, no gravy or creamy types, just the regular pates and only 1/2 a can in the morning. I split 2 cans between her and the 2 boys so they get roughly about 1/3 of a can each. She is also on Hill's Prescription Diet m/d which I know isn't helping. The problem is that she and the boys love it so much that weaning them off of it is not easy. Since they were kittens they have always been free-grazers with kibble so it's something that isn't that easy to just take away. I wish I could just get rid of it because it's killing my bank account for something that's making my cat's sugar stay high. I don't understand how they can call it glucose control with all the carbs in it. Makes no sense to me.
You said above that I could give her the B12 capsules I have now. Do you have any clue why the vet would say not to give it to her other than that it was different than the type they make for veterinary use? I'm paranoid only because with Skittles, I used a product called Blood Sugar Gold back in January or so and it was supposed to help level out his sugar as well. It nearly killed him. I let the vet look at it and research it before I gave him the first dose and he said to start slowly, giving once a day and only half the recommended dose. That's exactly what I did and a week later, he almost died because his calcium and phosphorous levels got so high that they couldn't even get a reading on the bloodwork. The vet that was caring for him at the time said that his heart and kidneys would have calcified if he had gone any longer with that stuff. There are zero warnings on the label about possible side effects and no info about how it affects other bodily organs. It was supposed to be all natural, plant-based and harmless and here I spent $1500 to save his life because of that stuff. Thankfully he's had no further issues, but since then I've been very apprehensive about giving my cats anything not prescribed by a vet. His sugar stays close to normal levels and he has no issues with neuropathy, thankfully, but that was an ordeal I don't want to put him or Biscuits through again. I'm just hoping if I do get the Zobaline I won't go through a similar situation with Biscuits. Has anyone here had any negative side effects when giving it to their cats? Just curious.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Has anyone here had any negative side effects when giving it to their cats?

In all the years I've been here, I've never heard of any problems. It's just a particular form of vitamin B-12 which is a water soluble vitamin and any the body can't use is just peed out.

If you want to save some money, there's no reason you have to use the Zobaline either. A lot of people use this Methyl B-12 from Amazon. It's a 4 month supply for $25 and each tablet is 5000mcgs instead of the 3000mcgs in the Zobaline. You just crush the pill and mix into food. It's tasteless.

Mine is from Nutricost and it just says Vitamin B-12 (methylcobalamin) 2000 mcg and has 240 capsules in the bottle.

If THIS is what you have, one of the inactive ingredients is rice flour which could raise Biscuit's blood glucose.

She is also on Hill's Prescription Diet m/d which I know isn't helping. The problem is that she and the boys love it so much that weaning them off of it is not easy.

You might try Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein Chicken...it's one of the few low carb kibbles (about 4%). It's pricey but no worse than the M/D. It's also available on Amazon.

Do you have any clue why the vet would say not to give it to her other than that it was different than the type they make for veterinary use?

My first thought is because most of the B-12 used by vets is a different form called cyanocobalamin. It's an injectable form that's useful for improving energy, appetite and just sometimes help give a cat a "boost" but doesn't work on diabetic neuropathy. Most vets don't know there's a difference (and although it might not have anything to do with it, it's possible your vet wants to make the money giving you the injections)

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

So sorry about your other kitty that was sick
You can also get the Vitacost Methyl B-12 Brand, Many members use this one
I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it.
I have been giving it to my cat ever since he was diagnosed and is now in remission
Just empty the powder into the wet food and is tasteless, add some water to it
100 capsules for 14.49
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Would you like to start a spreadsheet for both of your kitties
Some of the members could take a look at it and give you some advice
If you would like to just ask , we can have someone set it up for you

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

The 2018 AAHA Guidelines on Diabetes Management recommend Glargine (Lantus, Basaglar, Semglee are brand names) or ProZinc for cats. Glargine is a human insulin that's very effective in cats and most of us consider it the Gold standard. It has the highest number of cats that make it to remission, especially if they are started on it soon after diagnosis.

It IS pricey, especially in the US...but most of us buy ours from a pharmacy in Canada where we can get a 5 pack of pens of Lantus for $190 (including shipping). That's 1500 units which is enough to last most cats at least 1 year and some up to 2 years. Breaking it down, it's about .13 cents per unit. Here's the information on Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver. They are wonderful to work with!

ProZinc is a veterinary only insulin originally developed for cats. It's available at veterinary pharmacies like Allivet and Chewy for about $110 but it's a U40 insulin, so a 10ml vial is only 400 units which makes the unit price about 27.5 cents per unit.

You can also try
Semglee, it is a generic Lantus, and was approved by the FDA last June. The cost is compatible with Lantus from Canada.

https://www.goodrx.com/semglee
Here is a coupon above take a look at the price
Just call any pharmacy to see if they have the 5 pens, they will last you a year or more

With the coupon and your location and which pharmacy you go to I see the cheapest is 154.00 for 5 pens and the highest 164.00 . There is a place to set your location when using the coupon

Cheaper than getting it from Canada

Using syringes with a pen, cartridge, or vial:

• U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus, Basaglar, or Levemir from vials, cartridges, and pens.
• BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn are just some of the brands available with half unit markings.
• Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest)

We use syringes rather than shooting with the pens because you can only adjust the pen by whole units, so we just stick the syringe into the rubber stopper on the pen and draw the insulin out

 

[JanetNJ]

In all the years I've been here, I've never heard of any problems. It's just a particular form of vitamin B-12 which is a water soluble vitamin and any the body can't use is just peed out.

If you want to save some money, there's no reason you have to use the Zobaline either. A lot of people use this Methyl B-12 from Amazon. It's a 4 month supply for $25 and each tablet is 5000mcgs instead of the 3000mcgs in the Zobaline. You just crush the pill and mix into food. It's tasteless.



If THIS is what you have, one of the inactive ingredients is rice flour which could raise Biscuit's blood glucose.
View attachment 62941



You might try Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein Chicken...it's one of the few low carb kibbles (about 4%). It's pricey but no worse than the M/D. It's also available on Amazon.



My first thought is because most of the B-12 used by vets is a different form called cyanocobalamin. It's an injectable form that's useful for improving energy, appetite and just sometimes help give a cat a "boost" but doesn't work on diabetic neuropathy. Most vets don't know there's a difference (and although it might not have anything to do with it, it's possible your vet wants to make the money giving you the injections)

I'm guessing the rice flour is part of the gel cap it's in... If she opens it up and just voices the inside it should be ok.

 

[JanetNJ]

I split 2 cans between her and the 2 boys so they get roughly about 1/3 of a can each. She is also on Hill's Prescription Diet m/d which I know isn't helping. The problem is that she and the boys love it so much that weaning them off of it is not easy. Since they were kittens they have always been free-grazers with kibble so it's something that isn't that easy to just take away. I wish I could just get rid of it because it's killing my bank account for something that's making my cat's sugar stay high.

Offer them more of the wet and a lot less of the dry. Esp your diabetic she needs less of those high carbs. You said they each eat about 1/3 can reach.... What if you doubled the amount you gave them? I feed four times a day and they graze on wet food. I do have one non diabetic who is not a fan of wet and she has access to epigen 90 which is around 5% carb.

Yes the one from lifelink is the one. I do like that one because the volume of powder is less than human capsules I've used so my cats tend to not notice it.... But really is the same thing. Will it help without the bg in control. Hmmm. Well it can't hurt... And it may help. If you can get the ss going we can help you try to get the bg under control.

If never heard anyone having success with blood sugar gold.

Can you post a copy of the latest labs? If you don't have it, the receptionist at the vets office should be able to email it to you.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

I'm guessing the rice flour is part of the gel cap it's in...

No, the capsule shell is made of gelatin. The rice powder is mixed with the B12 powder. Typically, a filler like rice powder is added to meds in order to help ensure mixing and to prevent clumping.

 

[JanetNJ]

No, the capsule shell is made of gelatin. The rice powder is mixed with the B12 powder. Typically, a filler like rice powder is added to meds in order to help ensure mixing and to prevent clumping.

Aaah I see. That makes sense.