30-10 Coco/Chloe diagnosed this week. Some questions.

[Chloe Matson]

Hey everyone,

I'm Chloe, my family cat coco was diagnosed with diabeates this week. I'm currently living at home and took her to the vet because her breath was horrid and I suspected she had issues with her teeth. Note: She does but they said they will sort that after the diabeates is regulated but shes on antibiotics for this.

I told the vet that I was concerned about her because she drinks a ridiculous amount of water (3 mugs a day) and shes lost weight but still eats loooooooots. They tested and she has diabetes.

I'm not sure how long for I suspect quite a while. They had her tested a year ago for the same weight loss and drinking a lot of water but the tests came back negative and they were told as long as she eats and drinks and isn't underweight she was fine.

My parents always fed her on dry biscuits (as much as she wanted) and half a tin of tuna a day previously. They love her but aren't great with things like this so I'm taking on her care as much as I can.

The vet prescribed her with 1 unit of caninsulin 2x a day 10 or 12 hours apart.

I found this forum and have immediately changed her to LCWet food and told my vet. I've been giving her the insulin when I feed her (vet advised) in the morning at 8am before work and again at 6pm.

I'm concerned because I've read here that I should be feeding her first then injecting with the caninsulin and home testing. We all work and are out the house between 08:30 to 17:30.

Main concerns
Insulin types: the one I'm on doesn't sound great but we have no pet insurance and the vet said that was the best and most affordable for me at the moment especially due to her small dose that might be reduced.

Home testing: I'm up for trying this but I'm out most of the day so when should I be doing this? I assumed before insulin is given but then I read twice a day isn't enough.

I'm not really here to monitor her for long in the morning so I'm terrified she might have a hypo when I'm not here. In the evening she has a wee nap after shes eaten and had insulin but I'm always waking her up to check she is ok *head in hands* I pick her up and check she can stand and walk and she can she seems fine. Shes stopped drinking water completely since the food change! So i add water to her wet food and mix it up a bit for her.

It's hard to check on her symptoms because she is a bit of a sullen moody cat that sleeps loads. She's always been very greedy with food and grazed and cried when her bowl wasnt full so now I'm not sure if she is hungry or just annoyed she's now only fed twice a day. She eats it all in a oner but no one is here to give her wet food during the day anyway so that's not really an option.

I feel I'm flying by the seat of my pants with this at the moment and that we have all let her down. The vet made it seem like I just gave her the shots a couple of times a day and she'll be fine but clearly not! I'm due back in in a couple of weeks to check her progress.

So far I've been a wreck and coco seems fine. I've only noticed shes a bit more sleepy after the eating and insulin. Shes also a bit more affectionate. Oh and she drools a bit in the morning but I think that's her teeth and the antibiotics. I put that in her food then.

If I can get on top of this I'll take her when I move out but I feel just now my job is going to stop me getting her in the best routine for possible remission.

Any advice for someone who's working hours is not best for a poor cat with diabeates.

Thanks
Chloe

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I'm concerned because I've read here that I should be feeding her first then injecting with the caninsulin and home testing. We all work and are out the house between 08:30 to 17:30.

Hi Chloe, where do you live, we can then suggest a better insulin than Caninsulin
If you live in Canada you can get Lantus that is affordable for you and you won't need a script for it. You can purchase 5 Lantus SoloStar Cartridges that will probably last you for a year
Let us know and we can give you further information
How high was her BG when she was tested at the vets
Did they do a fructosamine test
Caninsulin is really for dogs and hits hard and fast and since you cut out all dry food and feeding low carb it can actually drop her BG by 100 points
That's why you should be home testing
I know you said no one is home to test her during the day so until you can home test I wouldn't cut out the dry food all together


If you can get up at 7:30 AM and test her to be sure it's a safe number to shoot , we advise to not shoot any BG under 200 since you are new to this
You would withold food 2 hours before testing so her BG is not food influenced
Test her , feed her a good amount of food , then you have to wait 30 minutes before shooting Caninsulin. Food needs to be on board
Caninsulin usually hits around 2 hours after shooting

 

[Chloe Matson]

Hi,

Thank you for replying! I live in Scotland! I've ordered a home testing kit it's due to come on Monday. She's not a fan of being handled but I've ordered some of the suggested treats so fingers crossed she won't make it too difficult.

Should I leave her a little bowl of biscuits out along with the wet food? Also I'm concerned she has gone from drinking sooo much water to litrally nothing. She is still peeing. I wish I had the blood tester this weekend to get some readings.

Am I ok giving the Insulin at 8 and then 6. I'm aware that this is 10 hours then big 14 hour gap? The vet said this was ok if 12 hours isnt possible but I'm not really trusting that now because they didn't even tell me her glucose or anything when I was in.

I'm glad she has been ok so far just sits closer to me than usual. I'm so grateful to this site for the advice.

Thanks
Chloe

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Give me a minute and I will answer more of your questions

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Did they run a fructosamine test to see what his average BG levels were over the last 2-3 weeks?
What was her BG at the vets
I'll be back in a few

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Here is the link so you can read up on Caninsulin
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

 

[Chloe Matson]

They didn't tell me and I naively didn't know I should ask! I didn't discover/ really start reading this site until I'd got her insulin.

They did blood tests on tuesday when I took her in and told me she had diabetes and told me to come back after work (I got time off so this was lunch time) to go over what I needed to do.

I took her back and she tested her blood but it has dropped and she was confused. Coco hates the vet and was stressed so I asked JD this caused the change but she vet was confused because stress normally makes it higher? (Also now I've read about it her symptoms are very obviously diabeties) So told me she wasn't 100% sure and would do a fructose test before giving her insulin.

They called me on tuesday said yeah it was diabeates and she had prescribed the I sulin and to just pick it up do as she had shown me on the tuesday and make an appointment mid day in two weeks.

 

[Chloe Matson]

Thank you for the link. The vet did say there was another type of Insulin here in the UK but it only comes in a big amount and is more than double the price and because Coco doesnt need it at the moment half of it would be wasted because it goes out of date after a certain time so I was better to start on the caninsulin and if she needs more insulin maybe move to the other one.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Should I leave her a little bowl of biscuits out along with the wet food? Also I'm concerned she has gone from drinking sooo much water to litrally nothing. She is still peeing. I wish I had the blood tester this weekend to get some readings.

Yes I would leave some dry food out plus the wet until you can start testing
You will have to transition slowly then to just wet food
We do not feed only twice a day, your vet is not correct
We feed our cats multiple times during each 12 hour cycle
Bigger meals at AMPS (AM pre shot) then you can feed her at +2 ( 2 hours )later ,a couple of tablespoons of her food and then again around +4 or +5
Same with the PMPS (PM pre shot)
I would stick to giving it every 12 hours not 10 hours
You can get an auto feeder to open at certain times for her to eat.
I don't know which ones are available in Scotland but we can find out

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

took her back and she tested her blood but it has dropped and she was confused. Coco hates the vet and was stressed so I asked JD this caused the change but she vet was confused because stress normally makes it higher? (Also now I've read about it her symptoms are very obviously diabeties) So told me she wasn't 100% sure and would do a fructose test before giving her insulin.

They called me on tuesday said yeah it was diabeates and she had prescribed the I sulin and to just pick it up do as she had shown me on the tuesday and make an appointment mid day in two weeks.

You can call back and ask the vet and tell her you want to know how high her BG was
So she hasn't done a fructose test yet?
You said she was confused at the vets , did the vet test her then to see what her BG was, She probably dropped to low.
You said you asked JD who is that
You said she has teeth issues and is on antibiotics for them, which antibiotic
I assume she needs a cleaning or did the vet say they are really bad , any need to be pulled do you know


Here is
UK food list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

What low carb wet food are you feeding her now do you know the carb content
You should also have some medium and high carb food and honey at home in case you need to bring her BG up


LC (0-10% carb)
MC (11-15% carb)

: HC ( greater 16% carb)

 

[Chloe Matson]

Sorry, the vet was a bit confused.

They tested cocos blood on tuesday at lunch and said she has diabetes. Then in the evening when I came back to learn about giving her the injections she tested her again before she was going to get me to give her one and her blood was low I think. That's what confused her so she did a fructose test and then on thursday they called me back and confirmed she has diabeates and said she didn't need to see me again to just follow what she said on the tuesday evening and pick up the Insulin.

I've put out some biscuits for her. I'll call the vet on monday and find out what her levels were.

Is the 10 hours an absolute no go? I have commitments a couple of times in the evening during the week which is why I'd chosen the 10 hour option the vet gave me as my parents aren't comfortable giving her the insulin *eye role* and it meant I could do it and monitor her for at least an hour before I had to leave. I'm going to try and show my mum how to do it. It's not hard but shes reluctant and there is no chance they will check her bloods so I'd rather do it if I can.

Her teeth are bad! Well one I think at the front which will need removed shes on 4kg daily dole of Zodon that I give her in the morning with wet food.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

They tested cocos blood on tuesday at lunch and said she has diabetes. Then in the evening when I came back to learn about giving her the injections she tested her again before she was going to get me to give her one and her blood was low I think. That's what confused her so she did a fructose test and then on thursday they called me back and confirmed she has diabeates and said she didn't need to see me again to just follow what she said on the tuesday evening and pick up the Insulin.

So when the vet tested her and she was low , are you saying she had not had any insulin all day ?
I am going to tag a few members here for some advice about giving her the insulin at 8 AM and then at 6 PM and also about if you should start with less than 1 unit twice a day
Do you have the U-40 syringes with half unit markings
We increase and decrease when needed by 0.25 units
I will also see if anyone can provide you with a link for supplies

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

Here is a video one of our members did
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Am I ok giving the Insulin at 8 and then 6. I'm aware that this is 10 hours then big 14 hour gap? The vet said this was ok if 12 hours isnt possible but I'm not really trusting that now because they didn't even tell me her glucose or anything when I was in.

I'll ask some members about this


can you get up at 7:00 AM and test her to be sure it's a safe number to shoot , we advise to not shoot any BG under 200 since you are new to this
You would withold food 2 hours before testing so her BG is not food influenced
Test her , feed her a good amount of food , then you have to wait 30 minutes before shooting Caninsulin. Food needs to be on board
Caninsulin usually hits around 2 hours after shooting,

 

[Chloe Matson]

I took her in to the vet at about 13:00 on tuesday and they tested and said she had diabetes then to come back at 1730 that day and she would show me everything and we would give her her first dose. At 1730 she showed me everything and then she tested coco before she was going to give her the first dose but her levels were fine which was why the vet was confused (she had never had any Insulin at this point) so she didn't give her any and said she would do a fructose test and told me to take her home. They called 2 days later (Thursday) saying that the test showed she did have diabetes and that she had prescribed the insulin and to pick it up and start her on the 1 unit that evening and continue twice a day and come back in 2 weeks. I have the syringes with the half markings yes.

I'm feeding her the sheeba fine flakes which I thank is 2% carbs. I can't believe she has stopped drinking water after me changing her to that. It showed me what a difference it's made. I've been giving her 4 pouches a day. I've put biscuits out for her too now. I'll look at the timed feeding machined for when we arent here during the day.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Is the 10 hours an absolute no go? I have commitments a couple of times in the evening during the week which is why I'd chosen the 10 hour option the vet gave me as my parents aren't comfortable giving her the insulin *eye role* and it meant I could do it and monitor her for at least an hour before I had to leave. I'm going to try and show my mum how to do it. It's not hard but shes reluctant and there is no chance they will check her bloods so I'd rather do it if I can.

Trying to figure something out for you
Can you give her the insulin at 7:30 AM and at 7:30 at night
Would you be home by then
What meter did you buy a pet or human meter?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I took her in to the vet at about 13:00 on tuesday and they tested and said she had diabetes then to come back at 1730

I'm sorry but I have no idea what time 13:00 and 17:30 means
I had asked you above
Trying to figure something out for you
Can you give her the insulin at 7:30 AM and at 7:30 at night
Would you be home by then

Since no one is home during the day you will need to do a lot of testing during the weekends so we can see how the insulin is working and how low she's dropping
Plus after you get home at night get some tests in
We have a spreadsheet we use to track our cats progress and see how low they drop
I'm going to ask one of our sweet members to set one up for you so you have it when your meter cones in
Her name is Bhooma @Bandit's Mom
She will send you a private message , look for it in your inbox above she will need some information from you
You can take a look at anyone's spreadsheet , you will see it at the end of any members posts
Mine says Tyler's spreadsheet, he's in remission now , you can tap on 2020 on mine at the top of my spreadsheet to get an idea
Thank you Bhooma

 

[Chloe Matson]

Three evenings a week I have to leave at 0645pm latest to make it to my evening class but normally I'd leave at 0630pm. I'm going to try and teach my mum to do it but I'm not confident that she will do it on time more than anything or that she won't forget.

I've ordered her some low carb treats to distract her when I'm I take her bloods and some of the urine strip test things too. I have the gormet foods and honey incase she has a hypo. Am i ok to keep giving her the 1 unit of Insulin at 8 and 6 tomorrow and monday morning until I get the testing kit? As long as i make sure shes ate a good amount 30 mins before. She is greedy so if i leave biscuits she will graze and also eat any wet food I put out.

 

[Chloe Matson]

Thank you so much for all your help tonight! I feel lucky that shes been ok so far considering I know so blooming little and the vet didn't really stress how dangerous it could be. It's quite late here so I'm going to go to bed.

Coco is with me just now and seems absolutely fine which is a relief. She will be delighted that she has biscuits to graze again! I'll get up earlier tomorrow and give her food a good 30 mins before I give her the insulin and then keep and eye on her the rest of the morning.

Thanks again Dianne I'll study some of the spreadsheets tomorrow so I have an idea of what to do on Monday. I saw a thread on people with cats on caninsulin too. My vet said if she didnt think it was working well she would move me to the other one so I'll about that at my next visit.

Thanks again and I hope you have a great evening.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I'm going tontag some members know to read all of these posts and ask about still starting off with 1 unit for tomorrow morning at 8AM and 6PM
I never knew what biscuits were when members would talk about the lol
Now I know . what time is it by you
Coco is a real cutie, I hope she's not in any pain with her teeth

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Wendy&Neko

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Janet

@Bandit's Mom
I don't know who else to tag
Chloe is a new member from Scotland and I have been trying to help her out with things
I hope you will read all of the posts to see what has been going on with her kitty Coco.
She has a dilemma about her testing and shooting times as you will read
Her kitty is/also on an antibiotic which I never heard of , she mentioned it in one of her posts what it is. Says her teeth are really bad but vet wants to hold off on doing anything right now which she mentioned why
I would appreciate it if you can read through all of the posts and can give her any suggestions or some more information or if I gave her any wrong suggestions
Thanks so much

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I've ordered a home testing kit it's due to come on Monday.

Can you tell me what type of meter you ordered? You don't need a pet meter, and often the test strips are quite pricey with them. Getting a meter/test strips you can get at the local chemist can be more convenient, as well as cheaper. Most of us use human meters.

Here is some UK Diabetic Cat Food Info This note also names some human meters in the UK. You will see in there that Prozinc is another insulin you can use with cats, and is in fact better than Caninsulin in terms of getting her regulated. It also gives you some flexibility in shooting times, though not as much as Caninsulin. Caninsulin doesn't last as long in cats, so it's easier to shoot earlier.

As for whether you can shoot after 10 hours, it'd be much easier to say if you could test her sugars before giving the insulin, and also before feeding. If high enough, then yes it's fine to shoot earlier. Other good times to test are before you go to bed at night, and the days you aren't working.

Do you have a dental veterinary specialist where you live? They are used to dealing with special needs cats. The catch 22 with not fixing her teeth until she's regulated, is that often cats can't get regulated if their teeth are bad enough.

@Diane Tyler's Mom Zodon is Clindamycin, a good antibiotic for teeth issues.

Chloe, Clindamycin, while a good antibiotic in this case, is also very hard on the tummy flora and can give cats upset tummies. And humans too - I've had to take it. It can help to give her a probiotic - generally give probiotics at least two hours apart from the antibiotic.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank so much Wendy and for letting me know what the antibiotic was

@Wendy&Neko

 

[Chloe Matson]

Morning,

Thank you everyone for your replies. I fed her wet food 30 mins earlier this morning then gave her her insulin and she seems ok.

I bought the gluconavi kit and some extra strips.

Her side/back teeth are all fine after her full clean last year it's one of her canines that I think will need removed/might be infected but she seems ok but you never really know with coco. She only makes a fuss when shes not got food ha! The dental clinic at our vet is really busy so the vet said the antibiotic should clear up any infection and at my next appointment to check her insulin they will get her booked in for a full clean and any extractions required.

What should I be asking my vet in regards to her diabetes? By my next visit I should have a weeks worth of the blood tests I hope. Should I take them in?

What type of probiotic would I get for her? I'd also like to get her the B12 for her back legs because I think they might have been affected a bit. (Again hard to tell because she broke a back leg when we was younger so has always been a little stooped.) I'm not sure what type of supplement I get, how I administer or how much?

Thanks again for everyones help. I just feel a lot has changed overnight and it's all on me. All the advice is so helpful and hopefully I can get her into a good routine and get her feeling better asap. I'm surprised at how unaffected she seems to be. Most traumatic part for her seems as if it was the 2 vet visits in a day!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

What type of probiotic would I get for her? I'd also like to get her the B12 for her back legs because I think they might have been affected a bit. (Again hard to tell because she broke a back leg when we was younger so has always been a little stooped.) I'm not sure what type of supplement I get, how I administer or how much?

You need the methyl B12 tablets which you can’t get at the vet. You can buy them online from life link.com They are called Zobaline for cats. Your vet may not have heard of them so don’t be surprised.

What should I be asking my vet in regards to her diabetes? By my next visit I should have a weeks worth of the blood tests I hope. Should I take them in?

I would ask if you can swap to a more suitable insulin for cats such as Lantus or Prozinc. They are longer lasting and more gentle insulins which are very suitable for cats. Caninsulin is not recommended for cats and is a dog insulin.
You can take in your weeks worth of blood results to the vet. Some vets are not supportive of hometesting the BG.hopefully your vet will be.

What type of probiotic would I get for her

I like SBoulardii probiotic

Have you got the spreadsheet set up yet?
HERE is a link to the SS.