New Member Bear

Status
Not open for further replies.
Biggietoms

Biggietoms

Member Since 2021
Hello,

My Cat Bear got diagnosed yesterday and I go in tomorrow to get him set up. The Vet said she did not know yet what type of insulin Bear would be getting but I thought I’d introduce myself and get the ball rolling. Bear has had no health issues in the time I’ve had him. I set up the ss and looking to do the home monitoring but looking online for the ReliOn Prime it looks like they’re all sold out in my area. What other device do you all recommend?

Bear has been eating Iams dry indoor formula for the 11 years that I’ve had him. He never liked wet food in all the times I’ve tried to get him to switch. He’s eating it now but I think it’s due to the fact that he’s so hungry he’d eat anything.

I guess depending on the Insulin I’m given I’ll ask where’s the best places to get it from. I look forward to the journey to get Bear back into good health. I’ll add more to this thread when I see the Vet tomorrow evening.
 
Welcome! Good job getting started. There will be some other info we'll want in your signature, but it's ok to wait til you talk to the vet tomorrow.

How was he diagnosed/what led you to bringing him in?

I personally would still order the Prime online if you can...WalMart ships free over a certain amount, so buying that plus the strips should qualify. The Prime really is the most cost effective, and works well for a lot of us.

As for insulin, we recommend ProZinc or Lantus usually. Many vets recommend Vetsulin, but it's really intended for dogs and a bit harsh for cats (and the AVMA stopped recommending its use in cats a few years ago). ProZinc is an in-and-out insulin, whereas Lantus is a depot insulin. Lantus tends to be the most gentle insulin, but it does take a little bit to get to an ideal dose. A lot of ProZinc users tend to switch to Lantus eventually anyway. Be sure to get the correct syringes (U40 vs U100) for the insulin you get.

Definitely keep him on the low carb wet food. There are a few low carb dry options. What wet food are you feeding?
 
Hi and welcome to you and Bear. This is a great community and very knowledgeable and supportive.
Well done getting the SS set up and I’m so glad you are going to home test. That is the best way to keep Bear safe.
I’m going to tag @Diane Tyler's Mom as she knows about the ReliOn meters available in the US at the moment…….I live in Australia.
I would get a human meter, not a pet meter as they are much cheaper to run, are just as good as a pet meter and our dosing methods are based on human meter numbers.

In regards to the insulin……I would ask the vet to give you Lantus insulin. It’s a great insulin for cats. Don’t let him start you off on vetsulin/caninsulin. These are insulins for dogs and not recommended for cats.
The starting dose is 1/2 to 1 unit twice a day.

I am glad Bear is eating wet food. The dry food is far too high in carbs for any cat, let alone a diabetic cat.
FOOD CHART
Look for carbs 10% or less.

HELP US HELP YOU has lots of useful information for new members, including how to set up a hypo kit…..make sure you do that as soon as possible in case it is needed.
Ask lots of questions as let us know how you get on at the vet.
Bron
 
Thank you for the reply.

I noticed Bear started to lose lots of weight back at the beginning of the year and took him in to the Vet. He had a Fever and was dehydrated. He stayed in the Hospital for 2 days and they could not diagnose him with anything. they initially thought he could be diabetic but with everything else going on they did not want to make a diagnosis. Bear recovered and started to act his old self. A few weeks ago I started to notice that he was begging for human food and would lick everything in sight. He was constantly hungry and peeing a-lot so I took him in and with the Blood work they diagnosed Diabetes.

I have tried any times to get him to eat canned food but he never took to it. I tried again recently and he has been eating everything I give him. Now he's eating the Nutro but plan on getting him on the Fancy Feast Classics.

I hope the vet sets him up on Lantus or ProZinc. It's what i'm going to ask for.
 
Vaseline as well if you don't have it, it helps the blood bead up a little better.

Urine ketone test strips to check ketones at least weekly; if you think getting a urine sample will be difficult they also make blood ketone meters, but those are a little pricey (as are the strips). I use one because Mr Kitty is a shy guy, rather pee in a corner than with me nearby with a ladle or Saran wrap on the litter.

Plus Bron mentioned the hypo kit, also critically important.

You're doing all the right things, Bear will be in tip-top shape in no time.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi yes The Relion Prime is being disconnected, you can get The Relion premier Classic instead at Walmarts
9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
26 or 28 gauge lancets any brand
Cotton rounds
Click to expand...
Please tell me they'll still sell the strips for awhile....:confused: they sure do like to discontinue meters all the time
 
FrostD said:
Vaseline as well if you don't have it, it helps the blood bead up a little better.

Urine ketone test strips to check ketones at least weekly; if you think getting a urine sample will be difficult they also make blood ketone meters, but those are a little pricey (as are the strips). I use one because Mr Kitty is a shy guy, rather pee in a corner than with me nearby with a ladle or Saran wrap on the litter.

Plus Bron mentioned the hypo kit, also critically important.

You're doing all the right things, Bear will be in tip-top shape in no time.
Click to expand...

Vaseline on the ear before testing, do you smear it on or glob the area where you test?
 
Biggietoms said:
Vaseline on the ear before testing, do you smear it on or glob the area where you test?
Click to expand...
Smear so that it's a relatively thin layer, that way blood can still get though and sit on top without running.

You'll figure out what works best for you...the first few weeks are a lot of wasted strips, a sometimes angry cat, and a room that looks like a crime scene. warm the ear before testing...some people use rice socks, I never bothered, just used my hands to warm them. In the link Bron shared above there's testing tips and tricks, somewhere in there is a picture that shows the sweet spot of the ear as well

Also - no Neosporin
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

Here is a video one of our members did
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
If your vet prescribcom

Lantus which I love it is very expensive in the US
Most of us order from Canada, Marks Marine, We buy the 5 pens that will probably last a year. You will also want to buy U-100 syringes with half unit markings. We insert the syringes in the rubber stopper and draw out the insulin.
The reason why we do this is because you can only adjust the dose of insulin by whole units using the pen. We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time. We can tell you where to buy the syringes if you get lantus
Here is the link for Marks Marine
https://canshipmeds.com

Or
I would consider getting Semglee, it is a generic Lantus, and was approved by the FDA last June. The cost is compatible with Lantus from Canada.
https://www.goodrx.com/semglee
Here is a coupon above
Just call any pharmacy to see if they have the 5 pens, they will last you a year or more
Let us know which insulin your vet prescribes , you don't want vetsulin , even though its cheaper it's actually used for dogs, not to say some cats do ok on it but Lantus is much more
gentle , vetsulin has a tendency to drop their BG hard and fast

We can tell you which syringes to buy because if you use the pens you can only adjust by whole units, with syringes with haf unit markings we adjust doses by 0.25 units
We will help you :cat:
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006
 
Last edited:
How should I go about talking to the Vet if they decide to give him something other than Lantus or another top medicine?
 
Biggietoms said:
How should I go about talking to the Vet if they decide to give him something other than Lantus or another top medicine?
Click to expand...
I would just say you've done the research, and would prefer to try Lantus. You like how gentle it is, the idea of a depot to help stabilize things and prevent big swings. The 2018 AAHA guidelines on Feline diabetes recommend starting with glargine (Lantus) or protamine zinc (ProZinc) insulin.
 
Got back form the Vet and Bear has been given ProZinc, His dose 1u. This Vet doesn't use Lantus. I gave bear his first shot wight there in the Exam room. I was sweating like no other..

I have a meter, test strips, Lancet Device and Lances. I was testing the meter and the pricking on myself before I get to use it on Bear. I'm more nervous for the testing then the shot giving thats for sure.

How long does it take to start seeing result sin terms of BG levels and symptoms, do they every go away. The peeing, the hunger?
 
So a lot of us freehand the lancet, the clicking of the device tends to scare them off or become whatever the opposite of Pavlov's dogs is. So smear Vaseline, take off the cap of the lancet. Fold the cotton round in half so it looks like a semicircle, put it on the other side of the ear (I prick the back with the fur, my vet pricks inside, I don't think it matters...cotton round just on the other side so you don't stab yourself). Then gently press the lancet to ear, it really does not take much pressure. You'll probably go through the ear quite a few times before you get the hang of it; don't worry, we've all been there and done it. Occasionally I still pierce it on accident.

Your vet may not have told you - rotate shot locations to avoid scar tissue build up. Did he show you the scruff or flank? If scruff, pretend it's the face of a clock, and just rotate each shot around the clock as best you can. I do the same when testing. I start at the bottom of the sweet spot, then through the day do my best to alternate ears and move up towards the top.

If you do a furshot (so you either don't get needle in far enough, or you go through the scruff/flank and shoot out the other side) do NOT shoot again. More than likely you'll know, insulin has distinct smell...sort of like, fresh rubber? Like new tires almost.

As for BGs, hard to say. If he's peeing everywhere, I'm going to guess he's 250+, that's over renal threshold. The 1U may be a good dose, or he may need more, or less. Won't know til you shoot!

Test when you can, ideally +2 to +8 is the first area you want to focus on, morning and night. Not necessarily hourly, but as many as you can get it so we can get a good idea of where he's at. If you see low blues or greens before +7, I'd start a post on the Main Forum just to get some eyes on you just in case.

You have hypo kit correct?
 
FrostD said:
So a lot of us freehand the lancet, the clicking of the device tends to scare them off or become whatever the opposite of Pavlov's dogs is. So smear Vaseline, take off the cap of the lancet. Fold the cotton round in half so it looks like a semicircle, put it on the other side of the ear (I prick the back with the fur, my vet pricks inside, I don't think it matters...cotton round just on the other side so you don't stab yourself). Then gently press the lancet to ear, it really does not take much pressure. You'll probably go through the ear quite a few times before you get the hang of it; don't worry, we've all been there and done it. Occasionally I still pierce it on accident.

Your vet may not have told you - rotate shot locations to avoid scar tissue build up. Did he show you the scruff or flank? If scruff, pretend it's the face of a clock, and just rotate each shot around the clock as best you can. I do the same when testing. I start at the bottom of the sweet spot, then through the day do my best to alternate ears and move up towards the top.

If you do a furshot (so you either don't get needle in far enough, or you go through the scruff/flank and shoot out the other side) do NOT shoot again. More than likely you'll know, insulin has distinct smell...sort of like, fresh rubber? Like new tires almost.

As for BGs, hard to say. If he's peeing everywhere, I'm going to guess he's 250+, that's over renal threshold. The 1U may be a good dose, or he may need more, or less. Won't know til you shoot!

Test when you can, ideally +2 to +8 is the first area you want to focus on, morning and night. Not necessarily hourly, but as many as you can get it so we can get a good idea of where he's at. If you see low blues or greens before +7, I'd start a post on the Main Forum just to get some eyes on you just in case.

You have hypo kit correct?
Click to expand...

Thank you for the response.

The Vet showed me the Scruff. I understand the rotating part.

I work and theres no one else home to test Bear while i am away. I plant to shoot at 4am after he eats. the Vet said he needs to eat before I shoot. I return home around 2:30 most days so thats when I can test again. On weekends i plan to test more obviously.

yes I have the Hypo Kit. I have an 24 hour emergency Vet. Temptation Treats ( Bear calls them Tummy Yummy's ) Honey and wet food. Bulb Syringe and lube...im going to have to look into this rectal glucose so im better prepared.
 
Just want to be sure that you are going to leave some food out for him while your at work. You plan to shoot at 4 AM , what time are you out the door, can you test him before you leave
Do you give Bear the temptations as a treat, they are high in carbs
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Just want to be sure that you are going to leave some food out for him while your at work. You plan to shoot at 4 AM , what time are you out the door, can you test him before you leave
Click to expand...

Usually I leave right after I feed him. I may have to feed him earlier. Do I test before feeding or after?

Should I leave some wet food out. Im afraid he'd just gobble it right up he will eat up anything left out right away.

the temptations - Not anymore, Just part of the Hypo Kit.
 
Last edited:
Biggietoms said:
Thank you for the response.

The Vet showed me the Scruff. I understand the rotating part.

I work and theres no one else home to test Bear while i am away. I plant to shoot at 4am after he eats. the Vet said he needs to eat before I shoot. I return home around 2:30 most days so thats when I can test again. On weekends i plan to test more obviously.

yes I have the Hypo Kit. I have an 24 hour emergency Vet. Temptation Treats ( Bear calls them Tummy Yummy's ) Honey and wet food. Bulb Syringe and lube...im going to have to look into this rectal glucose so im better prepared.
Click to expand...
With ProZinc you can technically feed around same time you shoot, might save you some time. The idea of feeding before is you want food on board for when insulin kicks in so they don't drop too fast, but that's really more a problem with Vetsulin. But do what you're comfortable with. Just make sure your preshots are fasting - i.e., 2 hrs with no food. The mid cycle tests are not fasting.

If it's any consolation, the rectal glucose administration is rare. In fact, in all the time I've been here, I think it was only done once or twice. If it's that dire, we're sending you to ER vet anyway. The gums usually suffice for the quick sugar bump.

I would leave food out all day, leave a little more than he usually eats just in case. If you think he'll eat it all, look into an autofeeder to split up his meals throughout the day.
 
You have to withhold food 2 hours before you test him in the morning AMPS and at night PMPS to be sure the BG is not food influenced.
Then you test him to make sure his BG is a safe number so you can shoot
You would then feed him and then shoot
Is he a good eater ?
Usually we tell new members not to shoot if the BG is under 200
I will tag some members to verify this
Usually if it's not you could stall for 20-30 minutes and see if his/BG comes up enough, but since you have to leave right away I don't know if that would be possible for you
You get home around 2:30 wow you work long hours

@FrostD
Melissa what would be her no shoot number 200?
 
med and high carb food on hand in case he drops too low and you need to bring his BG up to safe numbers

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs





Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any ones from the food chart


https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
Last edited:
FrostD said:
With ProZinc you can technically feed around same time you shoot, might save you some time. The idea of feeding before is you want food on board for when insulin kicks in so they don't drop too fast, but that's really more a problem with Vetsulin. But do what you're comfortable with. Just make sure your preshots are fasting - i.e., 2 hrs with no food. The mid cycle tests are not fasting.

If it's any consolation, the rectal glucose administration is rare. In fact, in all the time I've been here, I think it was only done once or twice. If it's that dire, we're sending you to ER vet anyway. The gums usually suffice for the quick sugar bump.

I would leave food out all day, leave a little more than he usually eats just in case. If you think he'll eat it all, look into an autofeeder to split up his meals throughout the day.
Click to expand...

Is there a good Kibble for the auto feeder I should look into?
 
Biggietoms said:
Is there a good Kibble for the auto feeder I should look into?
Click to expand...
There really is no good kibble they are high in carbs, just like the temptations, do you give them to Bear as a treat?
You can put the Fancy Feast Wet in the Auto Feeder, they have ice packs to keep the food cold and you can set them to open every couple of hours
I will post one that a lot of members use. Also always add water to his food
There is some kibble that you can buy over the internet that is low carb ,its expensive. I will post them for you, but it's best just to feed the Fancy Feast
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
You have to withhold food 2 hours before you test him in the morning AMPS and at night PMPS to be sure the BG is not food influenced.
Then you test him to make sure his BG is a safe number so you can shoot
You would then feed him and then shoot
Is he a good eater ?
Usually we tell new members not to shoot if the BG is under 200
I will tag some members to verify this
Usually if it's not you could stall for 20-30 minutes and see if his/BG comes up enough, but since you have to leave right away I don't know if that would be possible for you
You get home around 2:30 wow you work long hours

@FrostD
Melissa what would be her no shoot number 200?
Click to expand...

Bear’s a very good eater. He loves to eat.

I work 8 hours just have to drive about an hour to and from. South Seattle traffic is no joke.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
There really is no good kibble they are high in carbs, just like the temptations, do you give them to Bear as a treat?
You can put the Fancy Feast Wet in the Auto Feeder, they have ice packs to keep the food cold and you can set them to open every couple of hours
I will post one that a lot of members use. Also always add water to his food
There is some kibble that you can buy over the internet that is low carb ,its expensive. I will post them for you, but it's best just to feed the Fancy Feast
Click to expand...

I see. Didn’t know they had auto feeders for wet food.

please post the auto feeders you recommend. How much water should I add?

sorry for the many questions I’m just trying to get this right. I dont want my buddy to be uncomfortable or suffer in any way.
 
Biggietoms said:
Is there a good Kibble for the auto feeder I should look into?
Click to expand...
You can put wet in there, many of them have a spot for an ice pack underneath if you're concerned about that. I never used it, my cat usually ate everything by +8 ish and never had an issue.

If you do use kibble make sure it's low carb (under 10% on a dry matter basis, Dr Elsey's, Young Again, and EpiGen 90 are the only ones I know of...i can dig for specific ones if you need it).

Like Diane said the temptations are high carb, I'd cut those. Me Kitty was a temptations addict, but turns out he likes the PureBites even more...shoves his head in the bag before I can even get my hand in there
 
Biggietoms said:
I see. Didn’t know they had auto feeders for wet food.

please post the auto feeders you recommend. How much water should I add?

sorry for the many questions I’m just trying to get this right. I dont want my buddy to be uncomfortable or suffer in any way.
Click to expand...
I put enough water in Tyler's Fancy Feast to make it nice and moist maybe 3 or 4 tablespoons, some cats like it soupy
 
FrostD said:
You can put wet in there, many of them have a spot for an ice pack underneath if you're concerned about that. I never used it, my cat usually ate everything by +8 ish and never had an issue.

If you do use kibble make sure it's low carb (under 10% on a dry matter basis, Dr Elsey's, Young Again, and EpiGen 90 are the only ones I know of...i can dig for specific ones if you need it).

Like Diane said the temptations are high carb, I'd cut those. Me Kitty was a temptations addict, but turns out he likes the PureBites even more...shoves his head in the bag before I can even get my hand in there
Click to expand...

Just wanted to add
The only Dry Carb Kibble are Young Again Zero, Dr. Elsey’s Cleanprotein (chicken flavour) and Wysong Epigen 90 are all 5% carbs or less. but they are expensive
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Melissa does yours come with 2 ice packs, it looks like the same one I suggested in post #29 it comes with 2 ice packs

Also should her no shoot number be 200?
@FrostD
Click to expand...
Mine does not come with ice packs, but that wasn't an issue for me because I have a few at home anyway.

Yes we recommend 200 as the threshold. Lower than that - stall without feeding and without shooting, post in Feline Health (main forum) and ask for help. The ProZinc forum is usually less traffic and may not get a timely response.
 
FrostD said:
Mine does not come with ice packs, but that wasn't an issue for me because I have a few at home anyway.

Yes we recommend 200 as the threshold. Lower than that - stall without feeding and without shooting, post in Feline Health (main forum) and ask for help. The ProZinc forum is usually less traffic and may not get a timely response.
Click to expand...
I just hope he sees this, I did mention it above post #24 , he's out the door right after he eats which she said is 4AM

@Biggietoms
Tom when we respond to you can you please tap the like word so we know you read it :cat:
 
Last edited:
I see your first test in there, good job! 250 is a good range to start, hopefully won't need too much insulin. I see a lot of cats starting off 300s and higher...sometimes much higher (600+)
 
FrostD said:
I see your first test in there, good job! 250 is a good range to start, hopefully won't need too much insulin. I see a lot of cats starting off 300s and higher...sometimes much higher (600+)
Click to expand...

Thank you for checking in.

yes. I was able to get bear to let me test him this morning and got the 255 reading. I fed him then gave him the shot and he ignored most of the whole process.

I have the Autofeeder in order and it comes in today so I hope to have him set up by the weekend. My issue now is that my other cat (Piggy) doesn’t seem to care for the fancy feast so I have to feed him separately.

I’m sure I’ll have more questions as they move forward. I appreciate this group already so much I can’t thank you all enough.
 
Biggietoms said:
What kind of treats do you all recommend that are low carb?
Click to expand...
I think a lot of us use PureBites, any of the cat ones should be ok. Mr Kitty is OBSESSED with them. I believe Ziwipeak also makes some - basically anything that just raw or cooked meat, nothing else
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top