8/5, Susie, 276 AMPS, 222 @+2, 165 @+3, 197 @+4.2

Summer and Susie (GA)

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-4-susie-53-10-68-11-115-12-5.250847/#post-2830431

Need to understand the "no food" rule within 2 hours of preshot.

Susie started dropping at +8 and was at 53 at +10. I wanted to feed her something so she would not be too low at shot time. I gave her 1 tsp m/c at +10.5 and was told not to shoot until 2 hours later.

If I had given 1 tsp of l/c would that same rule have applied? In other words, if you have to feed anything within that 2 hours then you need to delay the shot until 2 hours after that?
 
Just to calm you a bit, i believe Susie would have bounced no matter what food you would have fed her. By the end of the cycle it is rare that you see cats that have very wild drops (i believe Susie doesn't have wild drops like in the beginning of the cycle), that is why the understanding that LC is enough, plus with LC you will not increase the PS as much. The reason for 2 hours break before the PS, is that you don't want to have a food influenced preshot, if it is a lowish food influenced preshot you might be taken by surprise when the "fresh" insulin kicks in. This is even more important for kitties like Susie (Chico and Ruby are similar) that nadir early in the cycle.

1.75 seems to be a good dose for Susie, i hope she manages to stays on it long enough to regulate and see more consistent green and blue values :bighug::bighug:
 
Marina & Chico said:
Just to calm you a bit, i believe Susie would have bounced no matter what food you would have fed her. By the end of the cycle it is rare that you see cats that have very wild drops (i believe Susie doesn't have wild drops like in the beginning of the cycle), that is why the understanding that LC is enough, plus with LC you will not increase the PS as much. The reason for 2 hours break before the PS, is that you don't want to have a food influenced preshot, if it is a lowish food influenced preshot you might be taken by surprise when the "fresh" insulin kicks in. This is even more important for kitties like Susie (Chico and Ruby are similar) that nadir early in the cycle.

1.75 seems to be a good dose for Susie, i hope she manages to stays on it long enough to regulate and see more consistent green and blue values :bighug::bighug:
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I knew she was going to bounce with her numbers yesterday. So, I'm still a little confused. If I had given 1 tsp of l/c at +10.5 would I have still needed to wait the 2 hours after to shoot (depending on her preshot number)? In other words, if any food is given within that 2 hours a delay must be taken in shooting? Do you think I was wrong giving her any food when I saw the 53 at +10.5?
 
Summer and Susie said:
I knew she was going to bounce with her numbers yesterday. So, I'm still a little confused. If I had given 1 tsp of l/c at +10.5 would I have still needed to wait the 2 hours after to shoot (depending on her preshot number)? In other words, if any food is given within that 2 hours a delay must be taken in shooting? Do you think I was wrong giving her any food when I saw the 53 at +10.5?
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There is no wrong or right decision, there is what we think would be better or less optimal. I believe if you have fed her LC or MC 1.5 hours before PS and if she were 115 at PS, there was no risk in shooting the insulin. The difference would be how high she would have gone at PS.

I think i saw yesterday you wrote that at the PS time she was 63, if this value was MC or LC influenced i would have stalled just to be sure.
 
Wow, I wish I was around yesterday to see those beautiful numbers! :D:D

I will try and answer that question about not feeding 2 hours prior. Yes, you don't want to have the PS number influenced by food if you don't have enough data to see how the cat reacts to LC versus MC versus HC at that time of cycle. You don't normally feed at +10, do you? If so, then you would have had to wait 2 hours if you fed LC to make sure the number was not influenced. However, those with a lot of data with feeding can feed anytime in the cycle if they KNOW how the cat will react to whatever they are fed. If I am wrong, I hope someone will come along and correct me on this.
 
Marina & Chico said:
There is no wrong or right decision, there is what we think would be better or less optimal. I believe if you have fed her LC or MC 1.5 hours before PS and if she were 115 at PS, there was no risk in shooting the insulin. The difference would be how high she would have gone at PS.

I think i saw yesterday you wrote that at the PS time she was 63, if this value was MC or LC influenced i would have stalled just to be sure.
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Nope, never said she was 63 at preshot. She was 53 at +10. I never worried about shooting the 115. I have shot a 64 before ("nail biting"). Just didn't want her in the 40's at PMPS and didn't know how much she was going to drop (or not) between her +10 and PMPS. Thanks for your help, Marina.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Wow, I wish I was around yesterday to see those beautiful numbers! :D:D

I will try and answer that question about not feeding 2 hours prior. Yes, you don't want to have the PS number influenced by food if you don't have enough data to see how the cat reacts to LC versus MC versus HC at that time of cycle. You don't normally feed at +10, do you? If so, then you would have had to wait 2 hours if you fed LC to make sure the number was not influenced. However, those with a lot of data with feeding can feed anytime in the cycle if they KNOW how the cat will react to whatever they are fed. If I am wrong, I hope someone will come along and correct me on this.
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Thanks. I think Suzanne said something about if you have enough data you can feed during that 2 hours if necessary so you could be right. I rarely test at +10 so I guess I don't have enough data with test at that time. Still, when you see a low number at +10, and are afraid the preshot will be under 40, seems you should be able to feed a little l/c without changing the shot time. Also, seems that 1.5 hours away from preshot would not be too food influenced by 1 tsp of l/c. Looking forward to seeing more comments on this. If there is a sticky about when you can and cannot feed, 2 hours prior to preshot, I would love to see it. This is an area I am mostly unfamiliar with.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Nope, never said she was 63 at preshot. She was 53 at +10. I never worried about shooting the 115. I have shot a 64 before ("nail biting"). Just didn't want her in the 40's at PMPS and didn't know how much she was going to drop (or not) between her +10 and PMPS. Thanks for your help, Marina.
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So the 63 was me dreaming abt Susie :D sorry, even so this was a good example of how i would analyze the situation :)
 
I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it. If you feed LC in the two hour time frame before PS, it's just like feeding LC during the cycle. It normally just keeps the cat surfing and doesn't raise BG. If you have to feed MC or HC, you're artificially inflating the PS number and it could be dangerous to shoot. It normally takes two hours for the effects of MC or HC to wear off. Which is why Marje said yesterday to not shoot until two hours after you fed it you fed MC. I hope that helps.
 
carfurby said:
I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it. If you feed LC in the two hour time frame before PS, it's just like feeding LC during the cycle. It normally just keeps the cat surfing and doesn't raise BG. If you have to feed MC or HC, you're artificially inflating the PS number and it could be dangerous to shoot. It normally takes two hours for the effects of MC or HC to wear off. Which is why Marje said yesterday to not shoot until two hours after you fed it you fed MC. I hope that helps.
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You totally answered my question. I will always try not to feed 2 hours before preshot but if I suspect Susie might be too low to shoot at preshot I will give a small amount of l/c. Another reason why I fed yesterday at +10.5 was I was afraid if she did dip below 50 then I would have to take a reduction which I did not want to do. Thanks, Carla.
 
Someone sent me the attached page of Weruva cat foods. Does anyone know if this is for the small, 3 oz cans or the larger cans?
Weruva Cat Food.jpeg
Weruva Cat Food.jpeg
 

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Acadaca said:
Yes. That's exactly what I meant. Time where you can both get some breathing space. You deserve it and I am sure need a break from the stress.
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Yes, needed a break from the stress. Hey, I am so excited about FCC. I can see an OTJ trial for him very soon! Thanks for always stopping in to see how my girl is doing! :bighug:
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Wow, I wish I was around yesterday to see those beautiful numbers! :D:D

I will try and answer that question about not feeding 2 hours prior. Yes, you don't want to have the PS number influenced by food if you don't have enough data to see how the cat reacts to LC versus MC versus HC at that time of cycle. You don't normally feed at +10, do you? If so, then you would have had to wait 2 hours if you fed LC to make sure the number was not influenced. However, those with a lot of data with feeding can feed anytime in the cycle if they KNOW how the cat will react to whatever they are fed. If I am wrong, I hope someone will come along and correct me on this.
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This is probably why I could feed Darcy any time.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Need to understand the "no food" rule within 2 hours of preshot.
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https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-13-darcy-pmps-445-1-389-2-409-3-359-4-414.243067/

The link above is to my condo on Darcy from February 13, 2021. In post numbers 11 and 14, Wendy is talking about the no food within two hours of preshot rule being for new people who don't have much data... but she also mentions that you don't want to feed before preshot if you're worried they'd be too low to shoot without food influence. She gives the example in post 14 that if I knew that Darcy went up about 50 points from food, I would not want to shoot a food influenced number under 100.
 
I think everyone hit on different parts of it -
  1. It's generally for new people without much data ( I do believe the stickies say this), but you technically do have enough data to know how Susie responds to carbs (i.e. if you give her 1 tsp of LC or mc, can roughly guess what she'll do at different points in the cycle). It doesn't matter that you don't specifically have +10 data necessarily, moreso are you coming up on nadir, past it, etc and how she reacts to carbs at those points.
  2. You don't want to artificially inflate PS with food if you're potentially near a no-shot/reduced shot threshold, especially with MC or HC. On the chance the cat is still dropping or surfing, the food will wear off potentially the same time new insulin kicks in and then you may have a fun cycle or two on your hands fighting low numbers.
  3. All of this isn't to say don't feed! It's just to say that if you choose to feed- whether for safety, peace of mind, or she finds contraband - then you'll probably want to stall.
After awhile I just let Mr Kitty eat whenever, because I knew I could expect a 50-70 point bump from food on boring cycles, and almost no bump on active ones. Near nadir/dropping depended on how fast and hard the drop was. After nadir, 30-50 pt bump.

So when it came time for PS, I'd consider what he had in the 2 hours prior. It was never usually more than 1-2 tsp LC, so roughly 30 pts inflated. So as long as above 80-ish in those situations, I'd shoot (otherwise stall). If it was looking like a late nadir though, I usually shot anyway because I knew he'd more than likely come back up before the new shot kicked in.

That was a lot of words, hope it makes sense
 
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