PMPS 207, +3 124

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I skipped Joe's dose this morning as he is in normal range. Guess I am staying close to home this morning. Drats, it is my day to feed a colony, 15 miles away that will take me over an hour but He is getting his breakfast now
 
I’m sorry no one answered your thread.
You have a good subject line but It looks like you have had 5 answers to your question. So next time change the subject line to add…no one has answered yet., or
Something similar to alert us.
Try and get those important pm cycle tests in if you can. It looks like Joe dropped lower last night but without tests, we don’t really know how low.
 
I see. I was re-posting and it looked like someone answered. OK. Learning.
Ok, I have gotten lazy (tired) with checking in the PM's. I will work harder at that. (day nap so I can stay up late lol)
Bron, do you think it was the right choice to not shoot at all?
 
Just checked his number and he is 195 and it is now moving up but it is 2 hours past shot time
OK waiting for @JanetNJ, she is my guru anyway
 
Susan Pomo said:
Just checked his number and he is 195 and it is now moving up but it is 2 hours past shot time
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That is good data for you to put into the SS.
As long as he hasn’t got a history of ketones, skipping was fine as you gather data.
Always have Ketostix on hand so you can test if you ever skip. And it is a good idea while he is unregulated to be regularly testing for ketones in the urine.
 
Susan Pomo said:
I skipped Joe's dose this morning as he is in normal range. Guess I am staying close to home this morning. Drats, it is my day to feed a colony, 15 miles away that will take me over an hour but He is getting his breakfast now
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No need for you to stay home if you didn't shoot.

Sorry you didn't get help earlier but you were doing everything right as far as stalling to see if the number came up so you're learning!
 
Thanks Chris no need to apologize. I was yelling out for you everywhere. DB thread on FB too. YAY for learning.
 
just checked him and his number is 405.
Can someone tell me if I should have given his shot anyway? Or if I should have shot half a dose?
was skipping altogether a good idea or bad?
 
Yup, good job stalling if you aren’t comfortable injecting at 146.

128 was likely just meter variance. If you are able to, you could try and get two readings at times like these when the reading is very important?

Don’t feel bad about not shooting! It happens, no, not the best scenario, but tonight you can give him his shot and he will get back to normal soon.

If I skipped, I would then ask here what the procedure would be following the shot, just to have the information for the next time you get ~146 at PS and then maybe you'll have the confidence to go for it.
(eg. shoot at 146, get +1 reading, give X% carb food, retest at X minutes)

And yeah, that 405 sucks. I don't use Novolin, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but ideally you would give him his normal shot and then feed whatever carbs are necessary to keep him safe.

I'm sure your guru will be here soon to answer lol but go feed your colony, Joe will be fine :)
 
Susan Pomo said:
Can someone tell me if I should have given his shot anyway? Or if I should have shot half a dose?
was skipping altogether a good idea or bad?
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You did everything right so don't second guess yourself now. What you've learned from skipping today is that once the last shot really starts to wear off, he goes up fast so you use that knowledge for the next time!

One good thing about skipping is that IF you want to change his shot times, you can do it tonight!
 
It's fine you Skipped. I probably would have said to give 1-1.5... But it's OK that you Skipped.


My brother is down visiting from Alaska so I haven't really been on today
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
What you've learned from skipping today is that once the last shot really starts to wear off, he goes up fast so you use that knowledge for the next time!
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Yes, exactly

JanetNJ said:
I probably would have said to give 1-1.5
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Even though he was not even at 200 yet two hours later Janet?
Just bear with me. So then, you have suggested about 1/2 his dose and you think this is what I should do if this happens again? Just want confirmation.
thanks
 
Susan Pomo said:
Even though he was not even at 200 yet two hours later Janet?
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What's most important is the direction he's going. Once you see his numbers trending up, it's usually a good sign that the last shot is starting to wear off. Also, you have to remember that when you stall, you're not feeding. If you stall too long, the number could go down just because he hasn't eaten.

It's also important to remember that when you DO feed, that's going to bring the BG up some too and the shot usually isn't going to "kick in" for 2-3 hours

A lot of it depends on your ability to test and your comfort level/experience too.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
What's most important is the direction he's going. Once you see his numbers trending up, it's usually a good sign that the last shot is starting to wear off. Also, you have to remember that when you stall, you're not feeding. If you stall too long, the number could go down just because he hasn't eaten.

It's also important to remember that when you DO feed, that's going to bring the BG up some too and the shot usually isn't going to "kick in" for 2-3 hours

A lot of it depends on your ability to test and your comfort level/experience too.
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Chris his numbers went up (from 125-146) and then back down again (128) and then finally only 150 after an hour
I did not know the shot does not kick in for 2-3 hours
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
A lot of it depends on your ability to test and your comfort level/experience too.
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testing Joe is not as easy as some I am afraid. I can manage it, even with three stalls, as long as I am giving some watered down tuna water with a few nibbles of tuna in it. After 2 sticks he was getting grumpy, after 3, I knew that would be my last until he had some breakfast
 
Susan Pomo said:
I did not know the shot does not kick in for 2-3 hours
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One of the reasons we push people to change from insulin's like Novolin and Vetsulin is because ProZinc, Lantus and Levemir are usually much gentler insulin's that don't do that fast drop early. (they can...it's just not as normal)

When I was new, it was explained like this....you're not shooting the number they're at now...you're shooting the number they'll be in 2-3 hours (after they've also eaten which is why it's a good idea to occasionally get a +1 so you have some idea how much of a "food bump" your cat usually gets)
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
you're not shooting the number they're at now...you're shooting the number they'll be in 2-3 hours (after they've also eaten which is why it's a good idea to occasionally get a +1 so you have some idea how much of a "food bump" your cat usually gets)
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one more tidbit of vital info for my WORD document of all things important to remember
Going to make sure I get a plus one tomorrow
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If you stall too long, the number could go down just because he hasn't eaten.
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Ahh. Never occurred to me. Good to keep in mind. Taking notes!
On the stalling subject, why have I read that if you have to stall for too long, then just skip the shot?
That doesn't make sense to me, unless the CG cannot be on a different schedule?
 
smorgasbord said:
On the stalling subject, why have I read that if you have to stall for too long, then just skip the shot?
That doesn't make sense to me, unless the CG cannot be on a different schedule?
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Schedule is a really common reason, but also, how long are you going to keep stalling when you're not feeding either?

Stalling requires that you also don't feed. Most cat's I know would object to that....LOL
 
OK I will. Something I am a little confused about: Would that be a +2 from the time I shot or the time I was supposed to shot?
AND does tomorrows AM shot happen now at the extended (stalled time) or the regular time?
 
Susan Pomo said:
Would that be a +2 from the time I shot or the time I was supposed to shot?
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Your "Pre-shot" is always the number you actually shoot, so the + cells would still correspond to the number of hours since the shot.

Susan Pomo said:
does tomorrows AM shot happen now at the extended (stalled time) or the regular time?
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You can work your way back to your chosen shot times by adjusting 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day. That being said, with ProZinc, you do have a little more "wiggle room" than the depot insulin's so if Joe is high enough at your usual shot time in the morning, you could go ahead and shoot.
 
Wow that was quite the drop he did last night.
When does Prozinc nadir again? If he wasn't at his nadir yet when you got 90, I would have stayed up to make sure he didn't drop too low. But that's Lantus, I can't speak for Prozinc.

He's getting you used to shooting lower numbers I see ;)
 
I am just mentally exhausted by all of this. This morning he was super high, obviously does not feel good and would not eat his breakfast. Because he did eat some tuna, I went ahead and shot anyway. I hope we are alright
 
Susan Pomo said:
I am just mentally exhausted by all of this. This morning he was super high, obviously does not feel good and would not eat his breakfast. Because he did eat some tuna, I went ahead and shot anyway. I hope we are alright
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Sometimes this is the worst huh, like he's high and you feel you're not making progress. I feel you. He recovered in today's AM cycle though, looks great now. And now you're shooting a 207 like it ain't no thing!

Is he eating ok? We had diarrhea today here as well. So random. Did he just not make it into the box before it came out?
 
Would you mind changing your subject line to PMPS 207, +3 124 please as the current subject line doesn’t reflect what is happening now. Thanks.
Did you give a snack at +3
I would test +4
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Would you mind changing your subject line to PMPS 207, +3 124 please as the current subject line doesn’t reflect what is happening now. Thanks.
Did you give a snack at +3
I would test +4
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I changed the title to what you said "PMPS 207, +3 124" I hope that is what you asked.
Yes I feed a snack before bed. I could not make it up much longer past +3 and he seemed to be doing fine then.
Can I have your opinion on the Libre monitor please. Will that solve any of my problems? Will it help me to settle on a dose for good? Will it help with the anxiety of stalling and not knowing what to do? What exactly will it help with?
 
Hi Susan,
Now that you are at the AMPS, the subject line I gave you is a bit irrelevant :joyful:
If you are going to continue with the same thread it is a good idea to change the subject line to what is currently happening in your thread. Does that make sense?
Also once the thread gets to about 50 replies, it is a good idea to start a new one. And link the previous thread to the current thread.


Susan Pomo said:
Can I have your opinion on the Libre monitor please. Will that solve any of my problems? Will it help me to settle on a dose for good? Will it help with the anxiety of stalling and not knowing what to do? What exactly will it help with?
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The libre monitor is really only good for when you are either unable to test yourself or you are learning to test.
 
Sorry that posted before I was finished writing!
Looking at your SS you look as if you are very capable of testing the BG, so I think a Libre monitor would be a waste of money.
It won’t help you settle on a dose for good. That is a matter of following one of the two dosing methods for Prozinc. Joe is very newly diagnosed but he is responding to the insulin and giving you some blue and green BGs. It just takes time and it can’t be hurried.
A monitor won’t help with stalling or knowing what to do either. What I would do, if you haven’t already done so, is print off the two dosing methods for Prozinc and decide which one you want to follow and then carefully follow what it says. Once you decide a method you are in a path and you have instructions on what to do…and you can always post and ask for help.
Stalling and wondering if you should shoot is hard in the beginning. Until you are more comfortable with it, post and ask for help. Getting a +11 gives you a heads up if the preshot could be lower than normal so you have time to post and ask for help.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
The libre monitor is really only good for when you are either unable to test yourself or you are learning to test.
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I disagree with this statement. It gives more info than that. With the Libre I know my cats nadir has been at +7.25 every day for the last 3 days. As a result when I scanned at +2 and saw that she was only at 100 (when she has never dropped that low that fast) I was able to make the decision to try and slow that down. Yes it's pricey and glitchy sometimes and not everyone wants the kind of detail you can get from it, but since it tracks the whole cycle you can see the data that is being missed by intermittent testing. However, I work in the sciences specifically with data analysis, so I always go for more data if possible.
Not trying to be contradictory, but I'm real glad I caught that drop this morning when I did.
 
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I appreciate both of your answers. Thank you both. Something I will have to decide on when I am rested and feel rejuvenated to keep fighting for Joe.
I am going to print both of those dosing methods and learn some more stuff
Where can I find something called "stickies"
 
If you go to the Prozinc forum the "stickies" are the threads that always stick to the top of the list. There is a dosing sticky there that goes over them.
 
StarburstMom said:
I disagree with this statement. It gives more info than that. With the Libre I know my cats nadir has been at +7.25 every day for the last 3 days. As a result when I scanned at +2 and saw that she was only at 100 (when she has never dropped that low that fast) I was able to make the decision to try and slow that down. Yes it's pricey and glitchy sometimes and not everyone wants the kind of detail you can get from it, but since it tracks the whole cycle you can see the data that is being missed by intermittent testing. However, I work in the sciences specifically with data analysis, so I always go for more data if possible.
Not trying to be contradictory, but I'm real glad I caught that drop this morning when I did.
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True it will give you more data, but if you can test yourself, you can get the same data.
We suggest testing at +2 as it gives an idea of where the cycle is going.
I have nothing against the libre. In some circumstances I think it is great for CG who are struggling with testing. But the price and it’s reliability can be a stumbling block for some.
In Susan’s case I didn’t think it would help with the problems she was worried about. But it’s always good to get differing opinions.
 
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