? 7/12 DOSING advice after crisis of not eating

EarthyCarbonCookie

EarthyCarbonCookie

Member Since 2020
My Carl has been too high for a while, high 300s and lows in 200s. I applied and was approved for assistance via diabetic cats in need, but after two months I still had not received the product, they're researching it, but I was concerned about Carl and also nearly out of Vetsulin. Today I was able to buy Glargine with the help from a friend. With the Lantus coupon and some help from CVS, I was able to get the 5 pens for $99

I also got some help testing him, as that has been a challenge the last few weeks due to my health. Yesterday his morning number was very low so I did not shoot.I wonder if it was not an error with collecting blood. He was struggling and I got a sample on my fingernail.

My question is, Carl did not eat at all on July 9 not even his favorite chicken or forbidden foods. He also did not eat today, July 10. He just licked the sauce off the food and I got him to eat half of half of a Sheba pate (half of a single 'side') His numbers remained elevated in spite of no food.

I do have a call into the vet to see if he needs to go to ER. He seems fine otherwise there are no neurologic symptoms. Inside his mouth is fine, nothing that would make him not eat or drink. He is not dehydrated. I can give fluids if needed.

I know his numbers are going to be high again this evening but I don’t know what unit to start him on of the Glargine. should I test him throughout the night? Anynither advice?

Thank you so much.
 
I forgot to ask, Carl has been diabetic since January 2020 so he was diabetic before that, and only was able to go without insulin for a couple of weeks earlier this year.

he is eating Friskies pate, sometimes fancy feast classic chicken, as a treat he gets home cooked or freeze dried chicken. I have young again senior available for him but he does not eat it.
 
I think you will like Lantus much better. Both Neko and I did after having been on Caninsulin (Vetsulin). We suggest that when you first start Lantus, you test every three hours the first couple cycles. It might be easier to start tomorrow morning? Normally we take the dose of the current insulin in mind (ie. start on 3 units), but with him not eating it's tricky.

Have you tested lately for ketones? I'm worried with him not eating and high numbers. You need to get some food into him some how. A couple links that might help:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I think you will like Lantus much better. Both Neko and I did after having been on Caninsulin (Vetsulin). We suggest that when you first start Lantus, you test every three hours the first couple cycles. It might be easier to start tomorrow morning? Normally we take the dose of the current insulin in mind (ie. start on 3 units), but with him not eating it's tricky.

Have you tested lately for ketones? I'm worried with him not eating and high numbers. You need to get some food into him some how. A couple links that might help:
Click to expand...


Thanks! Should I continue with vetsulin tonight if I can get him to eat? Making fresh chicken now.
Ketones tested normal.
 
Good to hear the ketones are negative. Cats shouldn't go two days without food. It's especially concerning that it's lasted this long and he's not keeping food down. Is he showing any interest in food?

As for insulin, I think Lantus will be a better long term solution. I'm just worried that there are a small number of cats who react to the switch and go lower the first couple cycles. If he's not eating, that's not good. Especially at night.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Good to hear the ketones are negative. Cats shouldn't go two days without food. It's especially concerning that it's lasted this long and he's not keeping food down. Is he showing any interest in food?

As for insulin, I think Lantus will be a better long term solution. I'm just worried that there are a small number of cats who react to the switch and go lower the first couple cycles. If he's not eating, that's not good. Especially at night.
Click to expand...


Thank you for replying. He's not showing any interest in food at all. He's not had any water, I measure how much is gone each night. I may give him some fluids tonight. He acts like he doesn't feel well. So far he's kept the broth down. It wasn't much and he fought me giving it to him. Usually he dives right in.

He did this once before in March, where he was vomiting and not eating or drinking for a few days. That was after he had gotten into the regular cat feeder though. He has not had any "bad" food since, only what I feed him.

OP https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-bouncing.245019/
 
Carl might be nauseous or in pain :( My Sabrina was diagnosed with acute pancreatitis when she stopped eating completely. She needed Cerenia, Ondansetron to address nausea and bupe to manage pain. She also gets weekly B12 injection and fluids 2-3 times a week.

We syringe feed her, starting from 10ml and gradually increased.

Hope Carl feels better soon! Sending him healing vibes!
 
Jia&Sabrina said:
Carl might be nauseous or in pain :( My Sabrina was diagnosed with acute pancreatitis when she stopped eating completely. She needed Cerenia, Ondansetron to address nausea and bupe to manage pain. She also gets weekly B12 injection and fluids 2-3 times a week.

We syringe feed her, starting from 10ml and gradually increased.

Hope Carl feels better soon! Sending him healing vibes!
Click to expand...


I have all that but the buprenex. For tonight he had subQ fluids, 4mg zofran (he's 20lbs), and I force fed him 30ml Beechnut Chicken for babies (no cornstarch like Gerber brand). Vet tech said maybe wait on dosage of B12 until we see vet. His BG was 235 at his normal bedtime/meal test. I don't feel comfortable giving him 3U. I'll retest now that he's had some food. If he holds it down I'll give him more in a few hours.

Thanks everyone for the advice!
 
Hi Carl, you're cute! Smart with the baby food, that's how I got Templeton's weight up, syringe baby food! How did the vet go today?
 
Over Saturday night and Sunday morning I got 5ml every two hours in him and he kept it down ok. (not Gerber it has cornstarch!) And did another round subQ.

He went to the vet who thinks that just not eating has caused his nausea -- ??? She initially suggested just keep giving vetsulin 3U until he starts to eat. Um, no? I don't think so.

Now another vet still thinks he was nauseous from not eating and gave him cerenia, sending me home with fluids and said to give Glargine 1U if I can get a tablespoon of any kind of food in him. Then test in two hours and give another 1.5U of Glargine? No to that second part I don't feel comfortable with that.

I'm still at vet and have asked for blood work. I'm low income and this is low income vet so I'm at the mercy of what they feel is reasonable opposed to a vet who will do it all as long as you pay the bill.

His poops this morning were baby food - just like it went in, and another bright yellow, firm with bright yellow loose stool, which to me says liver. I have a pic if anyone wants to see.

I can't get into our regular lower cost vet until later in the week. She is about 12 years old and still green. Ive no confidence in what's available to me.

Is giving Glargine maybe a half U ok to do if I can get a tablespoon of food in him?
 
Yes, bright yellow poop probably indicates elevated liver value and that means Carl needs more food into him. Sabrina once got bright yellow urine and her ears turned yellow as well after she's diagnosed with pancreatitis. We increased amount of food for syringe feeding from 10ml ish to 15ml and then 20ml so as to get more calories into her. Jaundice can go away with proper and adequate nutrition intake. I would increase 5ml to 10ml every two hours if Carl is able to keep the food down.

Cerenia takes a while to kick in. And Carl might also needs pain management.

Best of luck to you and your baby!
 
Jia&Sabrina said:
Yes, bright yellow poop probably indicates elevated liver value and that means Carl needs more food into him. Sabrina once got bright yellow urine and her ears turned yellow as well after she's diagnosed with pancreatitis. We increased amount of food for syringe feeding from 10ml ish to 15ml and then 20ml so as to get more calories into her. Jaundice can go away with proper and adequate nutrition intake. I would increase 5ml to 10ml every two hours if Carl is able to keep the food down.

Cerenia takes a while to kick in. And Carl might also needs pain management.

Best of luck to you and your baby!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I am taking him to another vet will do all this for me. I spoke to the vet on the phone he is 85 years old! Has some experience and is willing to listen to me
 
Now he is home from vet #3 and is drinking and nibbling a little. Cerenia was given as a shot and I have cerenia pills plus an appetite stimulant called Entyce.

None of the vets tested for ketones I did on Sat and there were none.

His immediate blood glucose at vet 3 was 497 and his blood was not clotting. A kidney liver pancreas panel will be back tomorrow.

He is eating a little on his own and sipped some water!
https://imgur.com/a/8MTxrh4
I have Lantus now - should I start him tonight? I'm getting up to check him every few hours anyway.
 
His BG is 428. He ate a tiny bit on his own and I syringe fed him 12ml before he started spitting it out. That was just now. I believe with Lantus we feed and shoot without waiting? Starting dose should be .5 or 1? He was 3U on vetsulin
 
Carl needs insulin. I wouldn't go to just 0.5 units. His dose on Vetsulin was 3 units and not doing anything for him. Starting dose on Lantus would be 3 units. High numbers might also be making him feel off. If you want to be conservative, start with 1.5 units. His numbers need to come down. Lantus is a depot insulin, you may not see an immediate change in his BG as the depot has to build. Cats that are having anaesthesia and not able to eat can usually do a half a dose.

Did the vet (any of them) mention the possibility of pancreatitis? I agree that he needs more food. Entyce is not the best appetite stimulant.

With Lantus you test, feed and shoot. All typically within 10-15 minutes. If he's eating, some people shoot while their head was in the bowl. If he's not eating, you can get a couple syringes of food in, then shoot, then continue to feed. Onset is not until 2-3 hours after that shot, so you have time to get food in him.
 
One more thing, on this forum we ask that you do a new post each day, with a link to the old one. That helps keep posts short and manageable. Tomorrow, go ahead and start a new one.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Carl needs insulin. I wouldn't go to just 0.5 units. His dose on Vetsulin was 3 units and not doing anything for him. Starting dose on Lantus would be 3 units. High numbers might also be making him feel off. If you want to be conservative, start with 1.5 units. His numbers need to come down. Lantus is a depot insulin, you may not see an immediate change in his BG as the depot has to build. Cats that are having anaesthesia and not able to eat can usually do a half a dose.

Did the vet (any of them) mention the possibility of pancreatitis? I agree that he needs more food. Entyce is not the best appetite stimulant.

With Lantus you test, feed and shoot. All typically within 10-15 minutes. If he's eating, some people shoot while their head was in the bowl. If he's not eating, you can get a couple syringes of food in, then shoot, then continue to feed. Onset is not until 2-3 hours after that shot, so you have time to get food in him.
Click to expand...

Thank you for replying! No vet mentioned pancreatitis even after I asked for him to be tested for it. The last vet did get blood and is testing for that plus liver and kidney values.

I will start at 1.5 and work from there. Is testing every 2-3 hours sufficient?

Thank you again
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top