Hi, just joined and have questions.

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smorgasbord

smorgasbord

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Hi all,

I've just joined and have been creating my spreadsheet LITERALLY all day. Tons of work you all have put into it, and I thank you!
So, I use 2 meters for each bg reading, human and pet.
Is there possibly a conversion chart or formula from AlphaTrak to human I can use to put all my data in one spreadsheet as "human"? Sometimes the sample isn't large enough for the human reader to get, so some of my readings are AT only.

TIA!
 
Hmm... I dooooont think there's really a way to exactly 'convert' the numbers, at least in the way you're thinking.

Normal human glucometers have a ballpark variance of about 20%.

The AlphaTrak has a ballpark variance of about 15%.

The AlphaTrack is technically bit more precise, but since its SO GASH DANG EXPENSIVE, most of the people here use human meters, and most of the advice given/written here are with human meters specifically in mind.

If you're new to testing/doing the ear pricks, it will eventually get easier to get blood from them, though, and collect those 'bigger' samples!

Getting the ear warm with a microwaved rice sock helps, and as the ears get used to being poked, they'll grow new capillaries there and 'learn' to bleed better.

Making sure you're poking in the right place also helps!
 
smorgasbord said:
Is there possibly a conversion chart or formula from AlphaTrak to human I can use to put all my data in one spreadsheet as "human"?
Click to expand...

No, there isn't because there's no direct comparison between a human and pet meter. You can't just say "if it's X on the human meter, it's Y on a pet meter".

At the lower numbers, they are closer together....the "take action" number on a human meter is under 50. On the pet meter it's under 68 but as the numbers get higher, there's more difference (but it really doesn't matter if they're 350 or 500....too high is too high!)

The best thing you can do is pick one meter and stick with it. You'll just drive yourself crazy trying to use both (trust me....we've had lots of people try it and they just end up with a bad headache). As the ears "learn to bleed", it'll be easier for you to get a bigger blood sample so I'd stick with the one you can afford and have the easiest time getting more strips for. You can always poke twice in the same spot if you need a little more blood.
 
Well then. My spreadsheet is going to be a cluster** for anyone to look at then. I suppose I can manually color the AT readings.
Yup, AT is pretty bad price wise. Vet told us to get it. I feel they are both bonkers off sometimes, but AT does seem to be slightly more accurate. We planned to phase the AT out and just use the CVS human meter, but just haven't yet. Thanks, the sweet spot is indeed the best.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
No, there isn't because there's no direct comparison between a human and pet meter. You can't just say "if it's X on the human meter, it's Y on a pet meter".

At the lower numbers, they are closer together....the "take action" number on a human meter is under 50. On the pet meter it's under 68 but as the numbers get higher, there's more difference (but it really doesn't matter if they're 350 or 500....too high is too high!)

The best thing you can do is pick one meter and stick with it. You'll just drive yourself crazy trying to use both (trust me....we've had lots of people try it and they just end up with a bad headache). As the ears "learn to bleed", it'll be easier for you to get a bigger blood sample so I'd stick with the one you can afford and have the easiest time getting more strips for. You can always poke twice in the same spot if you need a little more blood.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my lowest reading ever, I had matching numbers on both devices. But get high enough, they can be 200 apart.
 
I started with AlphaTrak and only used it for about a week because of the price. I did the cold switch to the human meter and no regrets.

It’s good that you noted which numbers you took with the AT. I would manually color them to match the AT number ranges. It will still allow people to notice Templeton’s BG trends.

@Bandit's Mom is the resident spreadsheet expert. She may have other advice on how to help keep that organized.
 
Librarianista said:
I started with AlphaTrak and only used it for about a week because of the price. I did the cold switch to the human meter and no regrets.

It’s good that you noted which numbers you took with the AT. I would manually color them to match the AT number ranges. It will still allow people to notice Templeton’s BG trends.

@Bandit's Mom is the resident spreadsheet expert. She may have other advice on how to help keep that organized.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. Planning on grabbing a Relion Prime? next time I have the energy to brave Walmart. I'll start transitioning it in and most likely quit the AT once I run through my strips. I do like the accuracy, but when the numbers get below 100, both meters seem to be equally accurate, and the low numbers is when you really want accuracy anyway...
 
smorgasbord said:
Planning on grabbing a Relion Prime? next time I have the energy to brave Walmart. I'll start transitioning it in and most likely quit the AT once I run through my strips.
Click to expand...
When you make the switch to Relion, let me know. I wil help you with the formatting changes to your SS :-)
 
Bandit's Mom said:
When you make the switch to Relion, let me know. I wil help you with the formatting changes to your SS :)
Click to expand...
Just ordered the Relion Prime from Walmart.com. Walmart is 30 minutes away from me so delivery works out better. Delivery estimate tomorrow, crazy! I've abandoned the pet meter SS and I am currently using the human meter SS. Will that be fine with the Relion? It will be interesting to see how close the numbers are to the CVS AgaMatrix meter I use now.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes, the human meter SS is what you want for ReliOn. But I presume the readings on your SS from 4/30 to date are using the AT2?
Click to expand...
Only the readings that say (AT) next to them are AT2, the rest are human meter. With the hundreds of readings I have, I ordered all the readings in my "Range" tab to be able to see a rough guess of what AT would convert to in human meter. I then color coded the (AT) readings on the SS accordingly.
 
Btw, Lantus is dosed based on nadirs and not on pre-shots. It's a depot insulin and works best when the same dose is given morning and evening. It takes 4-6 cycles for the depot to adjust. I see too many dose changes in your SS.

We also recommend getting some tests at night since many cats go low at night and "bounce" in the day.

I don't know if you've seen this sticky on the dosing protocols we follow here:
Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

In a nutshell:
  • SLGS: You hold a dose for 7 days (unless a reduction is earned). You decrease the dose when the BG falls below 90. The aim of this protocol is to keep the cat in the 90-150 range. This is more suited for caregivers who can't test as much as TR requires. You do a weekly curve with SLGS.
  • TR is a more aggressive protocol with increases as often as every 3-5 days. Reductions are earned when the BG falls below 50 (on a human meter). The aim is to keep the cat in the range of 50-100 (which is the normal BG range for cats). To follow TR, you would need to get at least one more test per cycle in addition to the pre-shot one i.e. 2 tests per cycle or 4 tests per day. You would also need to be feeding only LC canned food and no dry food.
If you post on the Lantus Forum, we could help you with dosing advice. :-)


 
ETA: Are you feeding Royal Canin Glycobalance wet and dry? Both are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Transitioning to a 100% low carb canned food diet (I see you also feed Friskies Pate) could yield a significant improvement in his numbers. However you want to make the transition slowly and with close monitoring of his BG to see how low he is going, so you can adjust his dose accordingly.

We have had cats go off insulin from just a food change. Tansi is the latest to do so:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/wondering-about-low-numbers.249211/
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Btw, Lantus is dosed based on nadirs and not on pre-shots. It's a depot insulin and works best when the same dose is given morning and evening. It takes 4-6 cycles for the depot to adjust. I see too many dose changes in your SS.

We also recommend getting some tests at night since many cats go low at night and "bounce" in the day.

I don't know if you've seen this sticky on the dosing protocols we follow here:
Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

In a nutshell:



    • SLGS: You hold a dose for 7 days (unless a reduction is earned). You decrease the dose when the BG falls below 90. The aim of this protocol is to keep the cat in the 90-150 range. This is more suited for caregivers who can't test as much as TR requires. You do a weekly curve with SLGS.
    • TR is a more aggressive protocol with increases as often as every 3-5 days. Reductions are earned when the BG falls below 50 (on a human meter). The aim is to keep the cat in the range of 50-100 (which is the normal BG range for cats). To follow TR, you would need to get at least one more test per cycle in addition to the pre-shot one i.e. 2 tests per cycle or 4 tests per day. You would also need to be feeding only LC canned food and no dry food.
If you post on the Lantus Forum, we could help you with dosing advice. :)
Click to expand...
You are completely right. I know now (after reading all day Sunday) we need to keep it the same. Will be working on that going forward. Yeah, I read and saved the info on SLGS and TR. Thinking want to go TR route once diet is ready.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
ETA: Are you feeding Royal Canin Glycobalance wet and dry? Both are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Transitioning to a 100% low carb canned food diet (I see you also feed Friskies Pate) could yield a significant improvement in his numbers. However you want to make the transition slowly and with close monitoring of his BG to see how low he is going, so you can adjust his dose accordingly.

We have had cats go off insulin from just a food change. Tansi is the latest to do so:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/wondering-about-low-numbers.249211/
Click to expand...
Oh, I know, right? Diabetic food that is 14% carbs for even the wet. SMH.
It's a long and complicated story, but he almost died when he went from 13.6lbs to 9.4, and I tried just about anything to get his weight up (including baby food!) so we are phasing out the evil RC now that he's up to 11lbs. And NOW the vet wants him on dry food bc he's had diarrhea for a month now. Not sure I agree with that logic...
He was on raw after DX, I got him to 1% Carbs and cut out the evil food, but IM vet said no to that.
So it's just all just so much so deal with and I told myself I wouldn't ramble, but here we are!
 
Decision for dry was purely based on my saying that he has had 1 stage 2 poo in the last 2 weeks. I told her the solid poo was in the morning, and at night he only gets dry. So she thought the solid poo was based on getting dry at night.
I get the logic in her head, but thinking now, I should have at the time told her I wasn't comfortable doing all dry. I just agreed, knowing I wouldn't do it, and hoping the diarrhea is just lasting effects from the Clavamox and will go away soon.

IM vet (and judgey vet tech) said no raw bc it's SO dangerous for diabetic cats. Shortly after they said that, he got a UTI, so I figured I'd cut out the raw until healed jic. Then he got another one, and more Clavamox.
 
The catinfo website also has a section on UTI and raw food. Check it out. It's by a vet and quite the eye opener.
 
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Bandit's Mom said:
The catinfo website also has a section on UTI and raw food. Check it out. It's by a vet and quite the eye opener.
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HAH. Oh my gosh, I love her. I discovered that site when he started having food issues, that's 100% what made me switch to raw! I about read every darn page and took pages of notes.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
The catinfo website also has a section on UTI and raw food. Check it out. It's by a vet and quite the eye opener.
Click to expand...

However, his Leukocytes were just so high for so long, we hate using antibiotics, but we said ok. What should we have done instead?

I use urinary strips daily and his Leukocytes starting going up. Gave it a week or so, they didn't go down. Then one day I found blood in his urine, did a test and LK were even higher, pH high, bilirubin and protein present. Vet says UTI, gives Clavamox.
 
Hi Joey and welcome! You've found a great community here and hope we can help. I think you'll like the Relion. The strips are cheap and they don't need as much blood as other human meters I've tried.

Sorry to hear that he's got runny poops. There are lots of more natural solutions to diarrhea that don't involve antibiotics that can soothe his tummy, like slippery elm bark powder and the probiotic strain called S. boulardii. I found these work really well to put a stop to acute cases of diarrhea, and can be used daily as gut soothing maintenance. This site is great for more info on using them: https://www.foodfurlife.com/my-cat-has-diarrhea---what-do-i-do.html#/

Re: raw feeding
smorgasbord said:
don't tell the IM vet
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's sad how many vets don't support raw feeding. Somehow in their concern for the health of the caregiver and food safety that they would prefer feeding kibble (where there have recently been a few widely publicized instances of salmonella present), thereby depriving the cat of the myriad benefits of feeding a cat something that closely approximates what they would eat in the wild.

I checked out Savage Cat Food, and it looks great except it's made with bone. Depending on how old Templeton is, the phosphorus levels in it might not be ideal for him long term. Because sugar gets excreted via the kidneys, diabetic kitties who go through long periods of hyperglycemia place a lot of strain on their kidneys, so often diabetes and CKD go hand in hand. It's just something to think about and watch out for in the future, but you're definitely right that whatever he wants to eat right now is the best thing for him.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi Joey and welcome! You've found a great community here and hope we can help. I think you'll like the Relion. The strips are cheap and they don't need as much blood as other human meters I've tried.

Sorry to hear that he's got runny poops. There are lots of more natural solutions to diarrhea that don't involve antibiotics that can soothe his tummy, like slippery elm bark powder and the probiotic strain called S. boulardii. I found these work really well to put a stop to acute cases of diarrhea, and can be used daily as gut soothing maintenance. This site is great for more info on using them: https://www.foodfurlife.com/my-cat-has-diarrhea---what-do-i-do.html#/

Re: raw feeding
Yeah, it's sad how many vets don't support raw feeding. Somehow in their concern for the health of the caregiver and food safety that they would prefer feeding kibble (where there have recently been a few widely publicized instances of salmonella present), thereby depriving the cat of the myriad benefits of feeding a cat something that closely approximates what they would eat in the wild.

I checked out Savage Cat Food, and it looks great except it's made with bone. Depending on how old Templeton is, the phosphorus levels in it might not be ideal for him long term. Because sugar gets excreted via the kidneys, diabetic kitties who go through long periods of hyperglycemia place a lot of strain on their kidneys, so often diabetes and CKD go hand in hand. It's just something to think about and watch out for in the future, but you're definitely right that whatever he wants to eat right now is the best thing for him.
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the info. And yes, the bone phosphorus consideration in Savage, didn't even think about that.
Well you know what, can't win them all right now! :facepalm:

Ran out to get that tummy stuff, came back and he was 62 so I've been focusing on that rollercoaster (62/71/58/58/69/54/67) for the last 3 hours. Should I make a post in the Lantus area for advice on his PM shot?
 
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