Civvie - heart disease and now stage 2 kidney disease

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April & Quincy

April & Quincy

Member Since 2019
Hi everyone. I knew my civvie had congestive heart failure as I am giving him meds 2x a day but now he was diagnosed with stage 2 kidney disease too. He's 14. His heart was diagnosed last year. Any recs for stage 2 kidney disease? I love him so much but I'm on a budget. I just want his last time on earth to be calm and peaceful. He hates the vet... I have to give him gabapentin when we go. I don't want to make him go more than is absolutely necessary.
 
Do you have any lab results you can share with us. Stage 2 can be managed with the correct diet and care.
I would suggest looking at feeding him a low phosphorus diet.
FOOD CHART here is a food chart that has the phosphorus levels listed. Look for foods that are 250 to 200 mg or less of phosphorus/100 kcals.

HERE is a link to information about kidney disease which may be helpful
 
Neko had both CKD and heart disease, though got them in the reverse order. Sometimes the treatments for one contraindicate what you do for the other. For example, with CHF, you don't want to give fluids. Lasix for the heart should be limited to protect the kidneys. The guiding rule is "heart trumps kidneys". I know it costs money, but for me going to an internal medicine vet was really valuable to manage between the two conditions. You are lucky it's just stage two kidney disease, many cats can stay at that level for a number of years and diet is one piece of that.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you have any lab results you can share with us. Stage 2 can be managed with the correct diet and care.
I would suggest looking at feeding him a low phosphorus diet.
FOOD CHART here is a food chart that has the phosphorus levels listed. Look for foods that are 250 to 200 mg or less of phosphorus/100 kcals.

HERE is a link to information about kidney disease which may be helpful
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I don't have any lab results but I'm sure I could get them. I know she said his number increased from 1.9 to 2.0 (I think creatine?) and another number increased from 14 to 18 which was high, she said. I'd have to get the results to tell you what exactly she said though. Thanks for the info. I'll look into the food chart as well, which I use for both my cats anyways but knowing that I should feed low phosphorus is helpful.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Neko had both CKD and heart disease, though got them in the reverse order. Sometimes the treatments for one contraindicate what you do for the other. For example, with CHF, you don't want to give fluids. Lasix for the heart should be limited to protect the kidneys. The guiding rule is "heart trumps kidneys". I know it costs money, but for me going to an internal medicine vet was really valuable to manage between the two conditions. You are lucky it's just stage two kidney disease, many cats can stay at that level for a number of years and diet is one piece of that.
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I totally know what you mean about treatments for one contraindicate what I do for the other. One of the medicines for his heart disease is definitely affecting his kidneys, the vet agreed and said I could give less if his breathing rate is low (under 30 breaths a minute) but right now it's not so I guess I can't give less.

Heart trumps kidneys...that's what I was thinking. I know I'm lucky that he's only at stage two - thus the reason for this post. I want to try to keep him at stage two for as long as possible. He already has enough going on with his heart.
 
April & Quincy said:
I could get them. I know she said his number increased from 1.9 to 2.0 (I think creatine?) and another number increased from 14 to 18 which was high,
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I'm guessing that's the SDMA. Was a urinalysis done too? The specific gravity could be interesting. If a cat is dehydrated, their kidney numbers can be higher, and heart medicine might be dehydrating if a diuretic. I had to add lots of liquid to food as a way to get water in. I sometimes made my own chicken juice (boiled chicken liquid) to make it appealing. Of course, no salt.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'm guessing that's the SDMA. Was a urinalysis done too? The specific gravity could be interesting. If a cat is dehydrated, their kidney numbers can be higher, and heart medicine might be dehydrating if a diuretic. I had to add lots of liquid to food as a way to get water in. I sometimes made my own chicken juice (boiled chicken liquid) to make it appealing. Of course, no salt.
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I'm supposed to take him back in when I can for the urinalysis. I definitely think he's somewhat dehydrated. He is on a diuretic for his heart and he drinks a lot and pees some pretty big clumps. He's been on in for a year. The chicken juice sounds interesting. He loves broths, just licks up all the broth and leaves the meat, so I think he'd love that. That's a great idea.
 
April & Quincy said:
his number increased from 1.9 to 2.0 (I think creatine?) and another number increased from 14 to 18 which was high
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Hi April, I'm so sorry to hear that you have CKD to contend with now. With CKD you want to look at Creatinine, BUN, phosphorus and SDMA on his labs. I think the 2.0 number you have is the creatinine, which is not terrible, and the 18 might be the SDMA number, which again is not bad. If you can get Quincy on low phosphorus and low carb food, you might be able to control the CKD well through diet alone and lots of moisture/water in his food. All the better that he loves broth! :cat:
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi April, I'm so sorry to hear that you have CKD to contend with now. With CKD you want to look at Creatinine, BUN, phosphorus and SDMA on his labs. I think the 2.0 number you have is the creatinine, which is not terrible, and the 18 might be the SDMA number, which again is not bad. If you can get Quincy on low phosphorus and low carb food, you might be able to control the CKD well through diet alone and lots of moisture/water in his food. All the better that he loves broth! :cat:
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It's actually not Quincy - it's his brother, Paws - though I do think Quincy is in the beginning stages of CKD as well. But thank you so much. I need to find some low phosphorus food because apparently the kind of Fancy Feast I've been feeding just isn't cutting it.
 
April & Quincy said:
It's actually not Quincy - it's his brother, Paws - though I do think Quincy is in the beginning stages of CKD as well. But thank you so much. I need to find some low phosphorus food because apparently the kind of Fancy Feast I've been feeding just isn't cutting it.
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Sorry about the mix up! I ❤️the name Paws.

Here are some options from Weruva that I fed Ruby before I switched to raw. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Sorry about the mix up! I ❤️the name Paws.

Here are some options from Weruva that I fed Ruby before I switched to raw. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248
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Thanks so much! Do you know if the cans are pates? Or shredded? They only really like pate, unfortunately. :(
 
April & Quincy said:
Thanks so much! Do you know if the cans are pates? Or shredded? They only really like pate, unfortunately. :(
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Welcome! All of the pouches are pates, the rest are either shredded or chunks. Ruby really liked the Cats in the Kitchen cans with the exception of the chicken ones (I think they were too chewy) even though she mostly prefers pates so she can lap and swallow.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Welcome! All of the pouches are pates, the rest are either shredded or chunks. Ruby really liked the Cats in the Kitchen cans with the exception of the chicken ones (I think they were too chewy) even though she mostly prefers pates so she can lap and swallow.
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Hmmm. I don't know how I feel about pouches. I feel like I'd have to give quite a few a day to meet their calorie needs. How many a day did you have to give?
 
April & Quincy said:
Hmmm. I don't know how I feel about pouches. I feel like I'd have to give quite a few a day to meet their calorie needs. How many a day did you have to give?
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A few of the pouches like Jeopurrdy, Meal of Fortune and Family Food are sold in 5.5 ounce pouches so they are more economical. Ruby liked them a lot. I fed Ruby one of these a day. Weruva has a recycling program with Terracycle to mail in empty used pouches so that made me feel pretty good about waste.

The other option that might be more budget friendly is raw feeding. I wrote a whole condo on it in the Think Tank forum. I feed both my cats for less than or about the same (depending on meats I choose) as what I would spend on Weruva, and Ruby’s kidney values went lower with raw.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
A few of the pouches like Jeopurrdy, Meal of Fortune and Family Food are sold in 5.5 ounce pouches so they are more economical. Ruby liked them a lot. I fed Ruby one of these a day. Weruva has a recycling program with Terracycle to mail in empty used pouches so that made me feel pretty good about waste.

The other option that might be more budget friendly is raw feeding. I wrote a whole condo on it in the Think Tank forum. I feed both my cats for less than or about the same (depending on meats I choose) as what I would spend on Weruva, and Ruby’s kidney values went lower with raw.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks so much for all the information! I feel like I have so much to learn yet. 5.5 isn't enough for one day for my cats but I do like that they come in bigger sizes. I also should look into a raw diet.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
The other option that might be more budget friendly is raw feeding. I wrote a whole condo on it in the Think Tank forum. I feed both my cats for less than or about the same (depending on meats I choose) as what I would spend on Weruva, and Ruby’s kidney values went lower with raw.
Click to expand...

Did Ruby's creatinine go from 2.4 to 2, and you credit raw?
Very nice to see this. Tina is a Weruva Truluxe girl, her favorite being On the Cat Wok (chicken and beef shreds in pumpkin soup), but I am open to trying raw again, with the help of Food Fur Life. Thanks Katherine - I will look in Think Tank.

All good wishes for Paws, and as said, stage 2 can be managed for years. Water for kidneys! Hard food, never IMO! Unfortunately, Fancy Feast is not good at all for CKD kitties.
 
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