New Member needing advice

[Ash and Totoro]

Hi everyone, my name is Ash and I'm the mum to Totoro (my sugarcat) and Miette (his sister)
Totoro was diagnosed with diabetes on the 16/06/21 after I noticed he was continually getting worse with his excessive drinking, urinating and not using the litter box. He had dropped some weight and had a glucose reading of 28mmol/l

We had a bad experience at the vets, with them keeping him there for 6 days and putting him up to 6 units of caninsulin in 5 days. I decided I wasn't feeling comfortable with the care he was getting and have just bought him home now.

We're seeing another vet on Wednesday morning which was the quickest we could get him in on short notice (it's Monday night for me now). He doesn't have much of an appetite (when I took him in he was ravenous and has always been a big eater), they had him on dry food only, and his back legs are drooping.

I have a glucose meter, test strips etc. that I purchased for him today (it's the Accu-check performa brand) They want me to continue injecting 6 units twice daily, should I hold off till he sees the other vet?

I'm currently feeding raw food to him (Big Dog brand) and we have some Tiki cat as well.

 

[JanetNJ]

Hi everyone, my name is Ash and I'm the mum to Totoro (my sugarcat) and Miette (his sister)
Totoro was diagnosed with diabetes on the 16/06/21 after I noticed he was continually getting worse with his excessive drinking, urinating and not using the litter box. He had dropped some weight and had a glucose reading of 28mmol/l

We had a bad experience at the vets, with them keeping him there for 6 days and putting him up to 6 units of caninsulin in 5 days. I decided I wasn't feeling comfortable with the care he was getting and have just bought him home now.

We're seeing another vet on Wednesday morning which was the quickest we could get him in on short notice (it's Monday night for me now). He doesn't have much of an appetite (when I took him in he was ravenous and has always been a big eater), they had him on dry food only, and his back legs are drooping.

I have a glucose meter, test strips etc. that I purchased for him today (it's the Accu-check performa brand) They want me to continue injecting 6 units twice daily, should I hold off till he sees the other vet?

I'm currently feeding raw food to him (Big Dog brand) and we have some Tiki cat as well.

Hi!! I'm here from the fb group. I'm so glad to hear you have a meter!!! That's going to be super helpful. I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home. Take a look, maybe it will help.


I'm so glad you listened to your gut and took him home.

That dry food may have been part of the problem as almost all dry foods are way too high in carb. Tiki cat, however, is a great choice (I'm assuming that you are talking Tiki cat cans, right?). Im not sure what the Big Dog brand carbs are like. (Bron do you know?)

The droop to the legs is called neuropathy. This will start to resolve once we get Toronto Into better bg numbers. Also helpful for neuropathy is b 12 methylcobalamin supplements. If you get it as a capsule you can just sprinkle on the food.

So starting today, no more dry food.

Let's see how your do getting your own reading... This is where you'll want to aim

Until we get some readings I'm inclined to say give no more than two units. I think those numbers are really going to go down once he's on appropriate food and not as stressed out.

Tagging another member who is from Australia
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

[Ash and Totoro]

Hi!! I'm here from the fb group. I'm so glad to hear you have a meter!!! That's going to be super helpful. I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home. Take a look, maybe it will help.


I'm so glad you listened to your gut and took him home.

That dry food may have been part of the problem as almost all dry foods are way too high in carb. Tiki cat, however, is a great choice (I'm assuming that you are talking Tiki cat cans, right?). Im not sure what the Big Dog brand carbs are like. (Bron do you know?)

The droop to the legs is called neuropathy. This will start to resolve once we get Toronto Into better bg numbers. Also helpful for neuropathy is b 12 methylcobalamin supplements. If you get it as a capsule you can just sprinkle on the food.

So starting today, no more dry food.

Let's see how your do getting your own reading... This is where you'll want to aim

View attachment 61324

Until we get some readings I'm inclined to say give no more than two units. I think those numbers are really going to go down once he's on appropriate food and not as stressed out.

Tagging another member who is from Australia
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Thanks for the reply, Janet! you're a legend and have been such a help. Big Dog food says they have a 3-7% carb content so that seems low. and yes, the Tiki cat cans are what we have.
Just took our first BG reading and didn't have too much of an issue, although I will just be using the lancets from now on instead of the lancing device.

That reading was 31mmol/l which is high but also he is very stressed out at the moment so I assume that's pushing up the numbers a little. Will see how I go over the next few days!

 

[JanetNJ]

Thanks for the reply, Janet! you're a legend and have been such a help. Big Dog food says they have a 3-7% carb content so that seems low. and yes, the Tiki cat cans are what we have.
Just took our first BG reading and didn't have too much of an issue, although I will just be using the lancets from now on instead of the lancing device.

That reading was 31mmol/l which is high but also he is very stressed out at the moment so I assume that's pushing up the numbers a little. Will see how I go over the next few days!

Wow fantastic that you were able to get a reading on the first attempt!!!! I prefer not to use a device.

Now that you have joined the vampire club you can set up a spreadsheet. Here is a link to the template that you will see in most of our signatures on here. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/


To set up a signature click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name,date diagnosed,insulin type,food you're feeding, meter you use, and any other health concerns. Don't forget to hit save.


Has he had his shot yet tonight?

 

[JanetNJ]

When you see the other vet on wed ask to be switched to either lantus or ProZinc insulin. I think you will have an easier time regulating him on a longer lasting insulin.

There's always a chance your cat is a high dose kitty (mine was) but the way they raised doses so quickly was dangerous.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Ash and Totoro and welcome to the forum
I can’t believe the vet took him up to 6 units in 5 days. He obviously has no idea about feline diabetes. That is just plain dangerous.
I agree with Janet and would reduce the dose. ,
When did you change over to the raw diet? I would almost be inclined to go back to 1 unit until you get some readings, as long as there were no ketones in the urine at diagnosis. Did they mention ketones at all.?
Tomorrow I would go out to a chemist and buy a bottle of Ketostix (only about $12 ) and test the urine for ketones as it’s important at to check there are none if the dose is going to be reduced.

I agree with Janet about the insulin. I would ask for Lantus (often called Glargine in Australia). It is a much more suitable insulin for cats.
I haven’t seen Prozinc used in Australia.
Are you feeding a good meal 1/2 hour before the insulin doses? And giving at least a couple of snacks during each cycle.?
Test before every dose to see it is safe to give the dose and then again about 2 and 4 hours after the insulin dose. If the blood glucose is still dropping I would keep testing until the numbers start to come back up again.

Im going to tag @Bandit's Mom as she may be able to help you with the spreadsheet if you run into trouble.
I’m going to give you a couple of links

Here is a link for Aussie caregivers

Here is a link with useful information.

Here is information about using Caninsulin

Bron

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Hi Ash! So happy to see you move over here from the FB group and even happier that you brought Toronto home from that awful vet!

I doubt if he'd appreciate a good butt bath right away, but maybe some warm wash clothes can help get some of the urine cleaned off his back legs. Urine left on the skin too long can cause burning. Of course he looks like he might have some Maine Coon in him and most of them love water so he may be just fine with getting a good butt bath too!

Hope his appetite improves now that he's home and can eat the food he was on before all this started. I'd almost bet that they were feeding him W/D kibble at the vet (it's about 36% carb)

Until you get a better insulin, I'm glad you're taking Janet's advice to drop back to 2U....it's possible he doesn't even need that much but it's a good starting place for now. With Caninsulin, you want to Test, Feed, wait 30 minutes and shoot so there's food on board before the insulin really kicks in. Then test again at least once between the shots but if you can test more, that's even better. With Caninsulin, nadir is usually around 4-6 hours after the shot.

If the new vet switches to Lantus, the routine will be a little different. With Lantus, you can Test, Feed, Shoot all in about 5-10 minutes. Test to make sure he's high enough for insulin at all, Feed to make sure he's at least willing to eat and Shoot, usually with his head still in the bowl. Since Lantus is a gentler insulin, it usually takes 2-3 hours before it "kicks in" so if he doesn't want to eat a whole meal right at shot time, it's OK for him to graze for the next few hours. Lantus usually nadir's around 5-7 hours after the shot so you want to try to get at least 1 test in during that time frame (of course more is still better if you can!)

Don't forget that the PM cycle is just as important as the AM one so while you don't necessarily have to stay up half the night to test, always get at least a "before bed" test so you know if you can sleep the rest of the night or if you should plan on setting an alarm for a later test. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to get data on that PM cycle too.

You're in the best place you never wanted to be now and everybody here will do all they can to help Toronto live a long and happy life!

 

[Ash and Totoro]

Thank you, everyone! We had trouble getting a BG reading this morning before his insulin so I went ahead and gave him 2 units after he had some food. I think the issue was his ears were too cold as I just tried again and had a much easier time. He also has "tatty ears" from his time on the streets before he got rescued so it makes it slightly harder but we'll manage.

It's been just about 2.5 hours since his insulin and his BG is 20.8 which has come right down from the 31 it was last night. I didn't end up giving insulin last night, I figured that would be okay since he had already had the 6 units in the vets that morning and I was really worried about hypo.

He's been on raw food for a few years but we had recently added in kibbles to try and get some hairball control for my other cat Miette, then stopped feeding them once we realised he was urinating and drinking excessively so they won't be getting that again.

He had no ketones in his urine at diagnosis. I never used to give him snacks but I went out this morning and got some low-carb treats, some honey for his emergency hypo kit and some extra food so he can have some during the day. I'm going to try and keep testing him throughout the day to get some more data for the new vet tomorrow as well (I've got some anesthetic cream for his ears if they get sore)

Overall he seems to be doing much better now he's home, he's been eating more and I've cleaned him up. He's been such a good boy about it all, I'm so proud of him.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

For the two snacks during the cycles, feeding him his raw diet would be suitable. I would keep the treats for treat times.
Do you need help setting up the spreadsheet or signature?

 

[Ash and Totoro]

For the two snacks during the cycles, feeding him his raw diet would be suitable. I would keep the treats for treat times.
Do you need help setting up the spreadsheet or signature?

I think I'll be okay with the spreadsheet and signature but will let you know if I run into any trouble with it. Thanks so much, Bron!

 

[Lily's mom Ellen]

Ash I'm so glad you brought Totoro home and have joined this group. I was worried and upset after reading your account in the FB group, it must have been awful for you. Many diabetic cats eat several smaller meals during the day, rather than a strict breakfast and dinner schedule. A snack can be a smaller portion of his regular food, raw or canned. My girl like to eat 4-5 times during the day. If you are feeding Totoro a paté, try mixing water into it to make it soupy. That will give him some the moisture he has been lacking and keep him from needing to drink a lot water. Wishing you and Totoro the best!

 

[Ash and Totoro]

Ash I'm so glad you brought Totoro home and have joined this group. I was worried and upset after reading your account in the FB group, it must have been awful for you. Many diabetic cats eat several smaller meals during the day, rather than a strict breakfast and dinner schedule. A snack can be a smaller portion of his regular food, raw or canned. My girl like to eat 4-5 times during the day. If you are feeding Totoro a paté, try mixing water into it to make it soupy. That will give him some the moisture he has been lacking and keep him from needing to drink a lot water. Wishing you and Totoro the best!

Thank you, Ellen! We saw the new vet today and she was fantastic, he will be going back tomorrow to be dropped off for the day while they make the switch to Glargine and they said the other vet wasn't following any usual protocol and what I did was right.

 

[Lily's mom Ellen]

What you did was absolutely the right thing! I know questioning authority, especially doctors, does not come easy to all of us. I'm so glad knew something was wrong and did what you had to do. Totoro has an amazing mom! Let us know his progress.